You and 4SUPER9 miss the point: in situations where a person would need the space, he's stated that he's good shifting an arbitrary amount of inconvenience to the other party for his own convenience. No hyperbole necessary.
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Supercharging Etiquette (or a complete lack thereof)
- Thread starter rpo
- Start date
My guess is it's a mechanical failsafe. Pressing the button physically disconnects the current.
Yup, the technical name for this problem is the 'tragedy of the commons' which comes from livestock sharing a single common area in a town. See I can turn anything into a farm analogy
.The upshot is that these aren't new problems.
Thank you kindly.
And apparently I'm the one using hyperbole in my posts...
His scenario describes coming to a hotel on day 1, charging to 80 or 90%, leaving the car occupying a stall for the entirety of the overnight while not charging, and then restarting his charge the next morning on day 2, before finally vacating the stall.
So not exactly the "within a few minutes" you suggest reasonable, eh?
And I'm not advocating for your " the exact second the charge is complete" scenario either... but leaving it overnight so you can avoid the tremendous hassle of having to move your car to not hog a charging spot all night? That seems a bit much.
snellenr
Member
I've seen both the "I've gotten away with it before" and the "Full superchargers only happen in CA and Glenmont CO" arguments in favor of a Tesla owner ICEing a SuperCharger slot, but they're not very good ones when all that's needed to cause congestion is a SC cabinet failure or some jackhole 5th wheel driver who has blocked the rest of the charging posts before heading to the bar (see the Columbia MO thread for an example). Sure, the 5th wheeler shares the blame -- but it's the Tesla owner who should know better who's at fault. But enjoying that nice, collegial EV experience and twiddling my thumbs while he's hauling his sleepy carcass out of the rack and sashaying over to the SuperCharger to move THAT D**N CAR HE SHOULD HAVE MOVED EARLIER will at least help pep me up for the rest of the night's drive...
And thanks for the suggestion above -- I will probably have become non-verbal by that point so I'm not going to call, but I do promise to keep poking that d**n button on the charger handle at 30 second intervals until the notification page on his phone has spilled over and covered the floor of the Holiday Inn Express Emperor Suite.
And thanks for the suggestion above -- I will probably have become non-verbal by that point so I'm not going to call, but I do promise to keep poking that d**n button on the charger handle at 30 second intervals until the notification page on his phone has spilled over and covered the floor of the Holiday Inn Express Emperor Suite.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
Holy cow, do you know how foolish you're really starting to look now? For like the 8th time, this is 100% NOT my scenario. You repeatedly and intentionally leave out all the other details so it conveniently makes me out to be the most inconsiderate person ever, which, actually is the furthest from the truth.
But since you still can't seem to understand my actual scenario, I guess I'll have to repeat it once again (and again and again until you get it -- and by god, I was really trying to stay out of this thread)... My ACTUAL SCENARIO is arriving after midnight at a completely empty supercharger in the middle of nowhere (Santee, SC Population 952). I assess the situation to see that there is nobody else charging. In fact, there isn't any traffic to be seen anywhere. I conclude that the ACTUAL chances of there being an armada of Teslas all arriving AT THE SAME TIME, after midnight, all needing to charge in such a manner that the single stall I have used actually has an impact on anyone else, is phenomenally small. I would even say the chances of that happening are asymptotically approaching zero.
Perhaps maybe that one night the Confederacy decided to attack the Yanks in the dead of night, and they wanted to arrive in silent EVs with the element of surprise and they're taking all their Teslas on I-95 north towards DC, stopping at Santee, SC at 3am to charge... and oops! .. there are more cars than there are available chargers. My contact information is large and clearly visible to anyone. Surely, not all 6 drivers had all their cell phones die at that exact instant. Surely, among those 6 drivers and their passengers, ONE of them would be able to see the large sign in my windshield with my contact information. And surely ONE of those six+ people would be able to dial their phone to call me. One simple phone call, and I can come move the car, as the hotel is 30 yards away. That's it. In the EXTREMELY unlikely event that there's some sort of rush on superchargers in a town of less then 1,000 people, in the middle of the night, all it takes is a simple phone call and the problem is solved in a matter of minutes.
Now, for the 9th time, PLEASE stop taking "my scenario" out of context just so it fits your insanely narrow and closed-minded narrative. Thank you.
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I stopped reading around page 2 or 3 (got busy) and decided to return to the end of the page this morning only to see the identical aforementioned scenario being argued 6 pages later. Guess I didn't miss much?
To be clear, you responded in the general case(note TaoJones' hypothetical question) wherein, as long as the need met some probability you deemed acceptable, you feel it's justifiable to others wait some arbitrary amount of time:
(And I was incorrect earlier, people should wait 12 minutes for you, not 5.)
Agreed. I will stop arguing on Hank's behalf. It has been fully hashed out. The issue from the OP is that multiple people left their cars parked overnight, in a SC that is clearly congested. Some signage would help. As I said in many other (So Cal) threads, a simple "1 hour parking while charging" would be sufficient. Enforceable only while needed. TM seems to be completely opposed to this. It is way past due time.I stopped reading around page 2 or 3 (got busy) and decided to return to the end of the page this morning only to see the identical aforementioned scenario being argued 6 pages later. Guess I didn't miss much?
For me, the appeal of the Superchargers is to allow me to be able to travel quickly and efficiently over long distances. The fact that they are "free" to owners is an added bonus but one I would gladly trade to decrease wait times. I know most of you won't like my idea but I was thinking that at least one stall should be a paid stall at each location. And if and when Tesla rescind their promise of free charging for the life of the car, I personally wouldn't be that upset about it. Especially if they simply charged the local cost of electricity. That alone would deter locals from leaching off the "free" juice while still making it available for folks in apartments and condos where the install of a home charger is not possible.
I also think it could be solved to some degree with software. I've said before that I like the idea of a Supercharger etiquette/rules popup that appears when you arrive at the charger. I think there are some people who assume it's fine to plug in overnight at a hotel. A notice that lets them know it's not fine would be a step in the right direction. The easiest way to do this would be to pop up a standard screen. A more difficult and nuanced way would be to make each notice Supercharger-specific. So if you plug in at a hotel Supercharger, "Do not leave your vehicle overnight" would be the first on the list and in a larger font, for instance.
I also think more clear wording on the mobile app would be helpful. "Supercharging almost complete" could become "Supercharging almost complete - return to vehicle." And "Supercharging finished at.." could become "Supercharging completed, please move your vehicle for others." Or similar.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
I'm not sure what you're saying here, are you trying to scare or intimidate me with this passive-aggressive attitude ("I will probably go non-verbal by that point")? What does that mean? You refuse to call me directly and instead use other passive means to get my attention? All I have to say to that is: PLEASE DO. Use any means you want (as long as it's legal) -- hit the charger wand button a thousand times if you wish. Take my cell phone number and post it on Craigslist or Reddit for "Free Beer, Free Porn, Free Money and Free Sex!". Use any means you feel necessary to get my attention if you can't just call me for whatever reason. Because if my car is actually occupying the last available charging stall and preventing others to charge, I'd sure want to be notified of that any way possible. But I also know that that WILL NEVER HAPPEN, because I would NEVER leave my car occupying a stall where there is even the most remote chance that could happen. So if you need to be all passive-aggressive about it if it makes you feel better, then by all means do. But it will never be my car there.
As I read this I recall that a year or so ago I stopped at Santee, SC Supercharger around 9:00 PM. I was the only car there. I stayed overnight at Clark"s and left my car connected overnight. I told the desk clerk at Clark's to let me know if anybody needed the space and was told "not more than two cars have ever been there at a single time during the night...". I thought no more about it. What may happen two years from now? Should those of us who've done such a thing stop now, in anticipation of changing expectations? After all the number of Teslas on the road could double before the Model 3 comes out.
Best to stop now so you don't form bad habits, and more importantly so others don't see the bad habit and model that behavior.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
You have to go back further than that, as my FIRST POST on the subject talks about my specific scenario and experience at Santee, SC.
NikeWings
Active Member
If those self-charging chords ever get deployed, we may be locked in our cars every time we pull into a SC.
Since we both used Santee...
I really don't think this thread is beating a dead horse; I do think this thread is addressing a problem that is serious in a handful of places and handful of times today, but has potential to become a huge problem.
So, Santee. The place only exists at all because Clark figured out drivers from New York to MIami and vv needed a place to feed and rest their tired bodies/vehicles. (source: Clark's uninspiring menu). The only thing that has changed is that we are the subjects now. So, I called Clark's and asked a few questions. It turns out the place does fill up from time to time, and the times are not entirely predictable to Clark's. So now there is easy travel via Superchargers from Charlottte and Chicago in addition to the Northeast and Florida. Teslas are popping up all over. Everybody now ends out close by Santee, otherwise absurd. That makes it just like several of the periodically crowded California and European locations. Watch what happens when a major sporting event, cultural event or holiday weekend happens.
A couple weeks ago I charged at Magog, Quebec together with four others. Luckily there are a half-dozen CHAdeMO right beside if the Superchargers are full. However, one of the four was a local Tesla that was there hooked up when I arrived, there when I left and still there when I passed by two hours later. That is a location which is nearly always empty but fills to overflowing sporadically.
So there must be hundreds of such locations that will be like that within a year. I conclude we need to devise good solutions with easy implementation right away, and hope to obtain concurrence with Tesla to implement them.
Finally, this is already a big issue with Destination Charging, with CHAdeMO and often with J1772 because all of those typically have only one or two chargers, are frequently ICED and have diverse clientele, for most of whom a power-hog Tesla is often not a welcome site. How should we deal with these? This may be off the Supercharger-hog subject, but is certainly related.
this isn't right at all, clark's like every other SpC location is chosen by a combination of geographic location and willingness of a property owner to host the site. Santee was one of the earlier locations on I95.
as for staying or eating at clark's that is all on you, you are under no obligation to stay there or eat in their restaurant. in santee there are all sorts of options for lodging and food.
as for destination chargers, that is a different animal. for those of us who only have a single charger a near zero to full charge will take from 6 to 9 hours depending on the amps offered. if I arrive at a hotel at 7pm and begin a session that will end at 1-3 am do you expect me to awaken and move the car?
what solution would you offer?
Sorry, I guess I was not clear. Santee itself exists because Clark's, right after WWII, opened to serve the NY-FL driver market that was just evolving then. That they cooperated with Tesla on Supercharger placement obviously happened more than a half-century later and was a different issue entirely.
On the other issue, I am not certain what solutions to suggest but this group is likely to have views that will be informative about a logical set of options.
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