Supercharging Hypothetical #3 -- Inappropriate or not?

[tomas]

I think a best practice at a supercharger is to either have eyes on your car or leave a note with your cell # or other contact method in case that situation arises. At a minimum, I'd say Elmo has an ethical obligation to step outside and confirm that the conditions are unchanged at the supercharger every 15 minutes or so once he is done charging and I think moving his car once he has a full charge would be clearly better. Personally, I might be willing to leave my car at a stall with a note when I had a high confidence it would be unused after it finished charging for a short period of time.

Would that everyone is as polite as you. We are currently looking at the tip of the iceberg with respect to supercharger contention. It is now rare, but will likely become common. We are moving from a relatively small group of more-or-less respectful enthusiasts to a more typical cross-section of the population. There are a few things Tesla can do about it... build more superchargers, improve systems and alerts, maybe eventually use auto parking and snake to queue cars in and out. Maybe not - that's a lot more capital per station. Most likely, they'll build more (but not proportional with growth of fleet) and institute fees for some cars and some behaviors.

Would be cool if Tesla would implement feature in app to call or text owner of a car by vin or by stall... in case they did not put a note on windshield. Some people would gripe about privacy of course, but this would be fair quid-pro-quo for free charging.

 

[MassModel3]

Would that everyone is as polite as you. We are currently looking at the tip of the iceberg with respect to supercharger contention. It is now rare, but will likely become common. We are moving from a relatively small group of more-or-less respectful enthusiasts to a more typical cross-section of the population. There are a few things Tesla can do about it... build more superchargers, improve systems and alerts, maybe eventually use auto parking and snake to queue cars in and out. Maybe not - that's a lot more capital per station. Most likely, they'll build more (but not proportional with growth of fleet) and institute fees for some cars and some behaviors.

Would be cool if Tesla would implement feature in app to call or text owner of a car by vin or by stall... in case they did not put a note on windshield. Some people would gripe about privacy of course, but this would be fair quid-pro-quo for free charging.

I wonder if for the Model 3 they'll do a pay as you go based on kWh used, but they could also expand on that by charging those owners for non-charging time spent connected to the superchargers. Since, as you point out, we're moving away from a more elite group and toward a more general slice of the population, perhaps negative incentives are the way to go. After 10 minutes owners begin to pay for the non-charging connection, and that price goes up incrementally for every [pick-a-number] minutes they're connected.

 

[dsm363]

Would that everyone is as polite as you. We are currently looking at the tip of the iceberg with respect to supercharger contention. It is now rare, but will likely become common. We are moving from a relatively small group of more-or-less respectful enthusiasts to a more typical cross-section of the population. There are a few things Tesla can do about it... build more superchargers, improve systems and alerts, maybe eventually use auto parking and snake to queue cars in and out. Maybe not - that's a lot more capital per station. Most likely, they'll build more (but not proportional with growth of fleet) and institute fees for some cars and some behaviors.

Would be cool if Tesla would implement feature in app to call or text owner of a car by vin or by stall... in case they did not put a note on windshield. Some people would gripe about privacy of course, but this would be fair quid-pro-quo for free charging.

That's a good point. Tesla could always keep it free and unlimited but say if you keep your car past full other owners can call in your VIN to report you. After a certain number of violations and warnings you might lost your SC privileges. They could prorate a refund for unused years of SC access over the warranty period.

 

[stevezzzz]

Would be cool if Tesla would implement feature in app to call or text owner of a car by vin or by stall... in case they did not put a note on windshield. Some people would gripe about privacy of course, but this would be fair quid-pro-quo for free charging.

Here's one way Tesla could implement this idea with the existing infrastructure. I'm assuming that if you're charging at a SpC, the car somehow identifies itself to the SpC and Tesla knows the VINs of all the cars charging; otherwise, how would they know to whom they should send the letters about SpC use that started this whole conversation?

1) Add a button to the phone app to be used only when you're waiting at a SpC with no bays open.

2) Tesla's system knows where you are from your phone's GPS, and scans the SpC telemetry from that location for the VINs and SOC of charging cars.

3) Notifications are sent to the owners of the two cars with the highest SOC, on the assumption that one or both owners will head back to their cars sooner, rather than later to free up a stall.

It could work...

 

[tomas]

Here's one way Tesla could implement this idea with the existing infrastructure. I'm assuming that if you're charging at a SpC, the car somehow identifies itself to the SpC and Tesla knows the VINs of all the cars charging; otherwise, how would they know to whom they should send the letters about SpC use that started this whole conversation?

1) Add a button to the phone app to be used only when you're waiting at a SpC with no bays open.

2) Tesla's system knows where you are from your phone's GPS, and scans the SpC telemetry from that location for the VINs and SOC of charging cars.

3) Notifications are sent to the owners of the two cars with the highest SOC, on the assumption that one or both owners will head back to their cars sooner, rather than later to free up a stall.

It could work...

Yes, that's a good way to do it while protecting contact info. Unfortunately it doesn't give much feedback back to the person waiting. Maybe the app could further allow a message from the owner pinged to be sent to the one pinging... hopefully "sorry, I'll be back right away"

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I voted inappropriate and abusive.

There is however something that begs the question: Why did Tesla place Superchargers at a mall in a town? This might suggest that this particular charger is more of an Urbancharger.

Ernies live in the towns with the malls.

I live in a small city (between 10,000 and 20,000 people, though the area has a few small towns together that makes the retail coverage area larger). Within 1 mile of where I live is a retail area by an Interstate exit. If they put a Supercharger in that area, and if I had a Tesla, I could, 1 or 2 times per week, drive there, walk/ride home, wait, walk/ride back and pick up my car, saving myself the cost of electricity.

But I wouldn't. Not because of inconvenience (since it'd be inconvenience-for-exercise), but because I'm not a (totally) selfish douchebag.

 

[TexasEV]

I wonder how all these Tesla owners managed to charge their cars before the supercharger was built at their local mall.

 

[tomas]

Same people who have to taste every freebie at the supermarket regardless of whether they'd buy product and take a piece from every free candy dish, maybe? It's free, so why not - whether you really need it is irrelevant.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

Interesting thought experiment. Our small metroplex will be getting a SC this week (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/50961-Supercharger-Kennewick-WA) and these scenarios may become more common, but I doubt it. I can still drive all over the area with my 4 yr old LEAF, so I highly doubt many Ernies would consume 50% SOC in a Tesla on a routine commute. There are few commutes that would exceed 100 mi around here.

However, to bring the analogy home to me, I can't imagine driving 20 miles RT to the SC "just" to charge. The SC will be at Fred Meyer's, not exactly my idea of a "high value" shopping area, plus there is another one closer to me if I need to shop there. Strange concept spending an hour of your life getting $10 of electricity when it's much easier at home while sleeping. Heck, I have a FREE J1772 L2 only a couple of miles away, near a bus line and easy bicycling, and I don't even charge there.

Now, if Ernie always shops at said mall anyway (as the poll stated), and the spots are always open, then he has an obligation to park and charge. Otherwise, the general public will start complaining about the charging spots NOT being used and ICEing will occur. Yup, here in redneck's-ville that will be a routine occurrence. Thus, I voted that Ernie should always park and charge! Remember, there are other locations besides CA, and SC congestion is NOT a problem in those areas. In this area (PNW, but not Seattle), I frequently hear the general public complain about unused charging stations.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

It would be inappropriate to use a Supercharger if you have sufficient charge to get home, and can charge at home. Period.

Elmo had 30% left, could have made it home, and his stopping at the mall for other reasons has nothing to do with it. Superchargers are for long distance travel, not to pick up a free charge when you can cover those same miles by charging at home. I thought this was already made clear by Tesla's recent email. Why are we still debating this?

 

[LetsGoFast]

Superchargers are for long distance travel, not to pick up a free charge when you can cover those same miles by charging at home. I thought this was already made clear by Tesla's recent email. Why are we still debating this?

Firstly, the letter didn't actually say "superchargers are for long distance travel":

The Supercharger Network's intent remains to expand and enhance your long distance travel while providing the flexibility for occasional needed use during local trips.

You might well argue that Elmo's use is either not occasional or not needed, but you can't actually argue that Tesla has clarified that superchargers are only for long distance travel.

Secondly, Tesla's intent is not entirely the final word. My goal with these hypotheticals is to determine what the average TMC user thinks about this question and I would assume that most of us give a lot of weight to Tesla's intent, so I'd rather not debate what happens if there is a disparity between their intent and what people think they have contracted for here.

 

[Scotty]

I think there are two 2 issues here. I think everyone basically agrees that leaving your MS in a SpC stall when it's finished charging is not cool.

It's also apparent from the comments that the line is clearly drawn between those who think Spc use is unrestricted (I just raised my hand), and those who agree with Tesla's letter that using a SpC instead of home charging (as much as possible) is wrong and irresponsible.

I propose it would be far better, and less contentious, if you follow your own heart, and do what you think is right. To thine own self, be true. I think that, not withstanding the MS that has completed charging but is still occupying the stall, that if you can be courteous and thoughtful, you're probably going to enjoy your MS experience. Also Tesla is going to have to exercise a strong game plan as the world moves to more EV use, and the increase in charging requirements(and congestion) could torpedo the EV movement.

I think Tesla will need to decide what their policy will ultimately be. They do need to be careful to ensure that the cure is not worse than the ailment.

I also have to restate (along with others) that building SpC's in the metro areas clearly indicates Tesla is providing local charging, but allows for distant trips. They are going to have to put in quite a few more, as more and more Tesla's take to the blacktop.

Scotty

 

[dsm363]

Tesla has said they put Superchargers in cities like London for people in condos and apartments without any charging. Not people too cheap to charge at home.

 

[nwdiver]

Man.... I'm on the fence about this one....

- I really don't care if a local uses an empty SC....
- I do think using a SC to save $$$ isn't their intended use....
- I've definitely seen a 6 bay SC go from empty to 1 car waiting in ~20 minutes...

 

[ViperDoc]

Firstly, the letter didn't actually say "superchargers are for long distance travel":



You might well argue that Elmo's use is either not occasional or not needed, but you can't actually argue that Tesla has clarified that superchargers are only for long distance travel.

Secondly, Tesla's intent is not entirely the final word. My goal with these hypotheticals is to determine what the average TMC user thinks about this question and I would assume that most of us give a lot of weight to Tesla's intent, so I'd rather not debate what happens if there is a disparity between their intent and what people think they have contracted for here.

Tesla has made it pretty clear from the outset what the intent of SC was. And their statement you quoted backs that up. My main concern is during a long distance trip, I (or others) will find SCs filled by locals doing what Elmo did—grabbing a convenient but ultimately unnecessary charge, potentially not even moving his car for an hour while he has a meal or 1.5 hours while he eats out, does some shopping, etc. If I am kept off a charger for 45 minutes while waiting for someone who doesn't need juice to fill their tank, it would really crimp the benefits of the SC system. They are putting in a SC in South Burlington, VT at a place I occasionally stop for food, a meal, etc. I wouldn't even think of taking one of the spots if I didn't really need it to get home or continue my journey other than to test that the SC system (in my car) is working!

 

[dsm363]

Tesla could require people they consider abusers to stay in driver's seat during Supercharging. It'd still be free be less convenient.

 

[mknox]

This scenario could equally apply to Level 2 chargers at a mall. Do you plug in if you really don't need to?

 

[FlasherZ]

Tesla could require people they consider abusers to stay in driver's seat during Supercharging. It'd still be free be less convenient.

Abusers come in multiple flavors, though -- the local superchargers are probably the guys & gals who sit in the driver's seat anyway, doing e-mail or some work while they charge up in more of a routine. I think they probably consider that more of an abuse they need to curb than the "charge while shopping" superchargers.

 

[Jaff]

Disagree...he is plugging in if the SC is not being used, not because he needs a charge...therefore, he is plugging in to save money from charging at home...

His use is fine as long as he charged at home when he could and that he also isn't making special trips to the mall on the way home *just* to save money from charging at home.

 

[NigelM]

This scenario could equally apply to Level 2 chargers at a mall. Do you plug in if you really don't need to?

Sometimes yes. If the row of chargers is empty, or nearly empty, I'll plug in to make sure that mall owners know the chargers are being used and appreciated; one day there'll be so many EVs it won't be necessary any more.


P.S. Tesla store staff have encouraged me to park my Roadster at one of the HPWCs at our local mall, people come into the store asking about it. (BTW, there is a bank of 4 HPWCs there, plus 4 Clipper Creek chargers, plus 8 Chargepoint machines, all free to use)