Supercharging letter from Tesla 8-13-2015

[bonnie]

Since the launch of the MS, Tesla had been touting the SpC network without limitations. Tesla has been gathering steam as they have been putting out more and more MS on the road. With their success, they are now facing the same issues that other encounter. With that success, Tesla is now attempting to change course, and they're finding the larger the 'ship', the harder to change speed and direction. SpC usage will always be a problem, both due to location, congestion, and down time. As more Tesla's hit the road, the inherent limitations of charging will become more appatent and rerstrictive. Perhaps Tesla is trying to influence as many as they can with the letter, or maybe they'll be satisfied if even a few owners decrease SpC use. Putting high power into a battery pack has some clear limitations, even though this has been improving (increasing) over time. Even though the time required has decreased, it's unlikely to ever be on par with filling an ICE gas tank. While I never say never, it's pretty unlikely that the Tesla SpC network will ever expand to be as prevalent as gas stations. So, Tesla is trying for a course correction.

Approach 1 was to send out the letters.
Approach 2 is the MyTesla profile
Approach 3 just came in to my email account, an announcement that the SpC in Seaside just opened. Note the distinct message in the announcement.
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They might not be stating you can not use a SpC whenever you want, but they are now repetitively putting out the same new message.... Superchargers = long distance travel.

Scotty

I don't have a Model S (just a Roadster), cannot use Supercharging, and I received the Seaside announcement, too. It was just a PR blurb. Hard to read anything more into it than that.

As far as repeating the message about long distance travel, it's not a 'new message' as you state. That message was originally given at the Supercharger launch event (Sept 12, 2012) and has been repeated since. The fact that so many people didn't really grok that is VERY good reason to repeat it and repeat it and repeat it.

To say that it is a new message is just flat out wrong. (Sorry. I can see how you'd believe that after reading some of the other posts.)

 

[NigelM]

Seriously people, looking for hidden meanings in new references to supercharging use is making this place look a little nutty. Here's from a few of the e-mails I received over the years (note the dates):

9/24/2012

Tesla Motors Launches Revolutionary Supercharger Enabling Convenient Long Distance Driving
...the locations of the first six Supercharger stations, which will allow the Model S to travel long distances with ultra fast charging...
...Combining these two factors, Tesla is able to provide Model S owners(1) free long distance travel indefinitely.
..."Tesla's Supercharger network is a game changer for electric vehicles, providing long distance travel that has a level of convenience equivalent to gasoline cars for all practical purposes. However, by making electric long distance travel at no cost, an impossibility for gasoline cars, Tesla is demonstrating just how fundamentally better electric transport can be," said Elon Musk,...

11/7/2012

FREE LONG DISTANCE
Supercharging enables free long-distance driving and convenient road trips beyond what many people ever conceived possible with an electric vehicle.

5/30/2013

Tesla Dramatically Expands Supercharger Network, Delivering Convenient, Free long Distance Driving Throughout U.S. and Canada
… Supercharging enables Tesla Model S drivers to travel long distances, for free, indefinitely…
… Superchargers are designed for city to city travel…

[My bold]
I gave up after that, it's pretty clear what the message has been since the beginning.

 

[Max*]

i gave up after that, it's pretty clear what the message has been since the beginning.

FREE UNLIMITED ELECTRICITY FOR THE LIFE OF THE CAR. No?

 

[NigelM]

FREE UNLIMITED ELECTRICITY FOR THE LIFE OF THE CAR. No?

C'mon let's not play games, you're much smarter than that. You know that Tesla always said "free long distance" or some version of that since the very beginning and in subsequent communications.

 

[Max*]

C'mon let's not play games, you're much smarter than that. You know that Tesla always said "free long distance" or some version of that since the very beginning and in subsequent communications.

I was being 100% facetious. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

 

[NigelM]

I was being 100% facetious. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

Apologies then, you're forgiven. There's been waaay to many nutty posts around here lately and it's gotten hard to tell the difference.

Peace.

 

[mknox]

Seriously people, looking for hidden meanings in new references to supercharging use is making this place look a little nutty.

But if I charge locally, then I can drive long distances, no? (Sorry, couldn't resist :biggrin

 

[Max*]

I saw that!

(the deleted post)

 

[smac]

Difference in geography; 'motorway services' that are common in UK/Europe are much less prevalent in the U.S. Stopping on a long distance trip invariably (although not exclusively) means pulling off the highway and driving a mile or two in one direction or another; often to a place where some enterprising company has built a mall or restaurant.

IOW, from a U.S.-supercharger-user perspective malls and restaurants are ideal places to site.

Thanks for the clarification. My experience of US Interstate is pretty limited to a few hundred miles between NYC -> NJ -> NYC in a hire car. I do remember stopping just off the turnpike at what I'd consider a "motorway services", but appreciate this is a very small sample size

It certainly will be interesting to see how the issues we have at mall sites change now Tesla has access to the service areas!

 

[jerry33]

I think the idea behind putting them near malls is that even in a long distance trip situation, you still have to kill 30 minutes of time.

When we went on our trip to the Seattle area, most charges were completed in ten to fifteen minutes. Usually it was done before we got back to the car from a pit stop. The only long stops were in the Wyoming gap, and the very end one at the last SC before Seattle.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Hence my belief that the most extreme opinions here will say "f you Tesla" anyway.

And the other extreme says "thank you Tesla" anyway, no matter what.

Extremes are hardly interesting. It is the middle that creates actually useful conversation.

- - - Updated - - -

You know that Tesla always said "free long distance" or some version of that since the very beginning and in subsequent communications.

Of course they did not only say that. No matter what we think of their executive intent, their comms was unclear and their sales people out of control on the message, prior to the reigning-in this summer when they started adding the "long distance" moniker to everything. Even now, they are making the exception to urban charging areas.

 

[Patrick W]

Well I guess the letter had the desired effect on me. Whereas I have been using the supercharger near my house 2 times a week, I'm cutting that back to 1.

I've kind of adopted "my" supercharger since it is so close to my house meaning while charging I pick up trash (people are so messy) and put all the cables back in their sockets (why do people leave them on the ground?).

I'll be interested to see how much my electricity bill goes up, but I'm sure the increase will be way less than my gasoline and diesel bills have gone down.

 

[vdiv]

So after some 760 posts, do we understand if distance is a scalar or a vector in Tesla's parlance?

 

[AmpedRealtor]

The problem with throttling as any sort of punishment or countermeasure is that if it takes place while others are waiting to charge, it winds up "punishing" innocents as well.

If there were some way to throttle the worst offenders, after warnings, and only when it wouldn't in any way adversely affect other users (for example, when there were open superchargers at the same location,) that would be a different story.

My hope with suggesting throttling to 110v was that it would rather quickly cause the offender to remove his or her vehicle from the Supercharger. Of course, not everyone checks their charge rate. Some plug in and walk away. If Tesla does institute some form of throttling as a last resort, I do hope that they also send a notification to the owner's smart phone (if they have one) letting them know they have been throttled as soon as they plug in.

- - - Updated - - -

For the extreme cheapskate throttling will lead to sleeping in the car and charging overnight. And/or walking home, if the SpC is that close.

LOL... at that point, we need to call the local media and have camera crews descend upon said sleeping person! lol

 

[neroden]

Difference in geography; 'motorway services' that are common in UK/Europe are much less prevalent in the U.S. Stopping on a long distance trip invariably (although not exclusively) means pulling off the highway and driving a mile or two in one direction or another; often to a place where some enterprising company has built a mall or restaurant.

IOW, from a U.S.-supercharger-user perspective malls and restaurants are ideal places to site.

Yeah. I've only seen the "motorway services" type of rest stop on a few highways in the US: on the toll roads with a "ticket system", mostly (so you don't have to get off, pay the toll, get on and get a new ticket). On the freeways in most rural areas, rest stops are desolate, without so much as a restaurant.

 

[smac]

Yeah. I've only seen the "motorway services" type of rest stop on a few highways in the US: on the toll roads with a "ticket system", mostly (so you don't have to get off, pay the toll, get on and get a new ticket). On the freeways in most rural areas, rest stops are desolate, without so much as a restaurant.

That must be it, my experience was on the NJ Turnpike (I do hope to extend my knowledge next year as I'm planning a coast to coast US road trip vacation, hmm I wonder if I can rent a Model S )

It would seem the UK/EU system is an ideal scenario for Tesla to enable long distance travel, and filter usage simply by location choice. FWIW there are other benefits too, as generally speaking the main powerlines follow the main motorways.

In the UK you are probably never more than 50 miles from a motorway services, giving a ready made spacing which is almost ideal. They are also all licensed, so must provide 24/7 opening, restrooms and food facilities to be allowed to operate. (And why the Ecotricity spat was so damaging for Tesla).

As for London, well as ever it faces challenges that don't apply to the rest of the country.

I've said for a long time Supercharger only policy probably isn't the best option, and some sort of bundle deal with one of the car park providers would make a huge amount of sense. Developments like this: Tesla’s Putting Charging Stations In New York’s Parking Garages - Fortune are certainly welcome.

Outside Tesla there are already developments underway, with some firms using government grants to discount contract parking, so it's 50% cheaper to rent a permanent space with free charging for an EV in certain car parks.

Interesting times.

 

[Nigel16494]

I can understand Tesla will tighten up, it must be a nightmare for them. They tell me I can't use local supercharging but don't define what local is. I can use it occasionally but don't define what that is. I can use it for long distance travel but don't define what that is either . They send an email to a lot of folks but target the wrong email list. They need to be very specific but actually they can't because if they did that most likely would be a negative on the car. I actually don't mind paying for the Kwh if I get it wrong, they can take it from my fast track responder or something. They do need to be very specific on what exactly all the terms are. We all knew that the superchargers were open to abuse, so did Tesla. Relying on the common sense of people doesn't work because some don't possess any.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I can understand Tesla will tighten up, it must be a nightmare for them. They tell me I can't use local supercharging but don't define what local is. I can use it occasionally but don't define what that is. I can use it for long distance travel but don't define what that is either . They send an email to a lot of folks but target the wrong email list. They need to be very specific but actually they can't because if they did that most likely would be a negative on the car. I actually don't mind paying for the Kwh if I get it wrong, they can take it from my fast track responder or something. They do need to be very specific on what exactly all the terms are. We all knew that the superchargers were open to abuse, so did Tesla. Relying on the common sense of people doesn't work because some don't possess any.

Agreed, probably a good analysis of the situation.

I'd just add it can be a nightmare to those Tesla owners too who rely on the Supercharger network. We have already seen anecdotal cases in TMC with the lack of a clear policy causing Supercharging anxiety.

I would recommend Tesla to man up/woman up, bite the bullet and set a clear policy. That would be the honest thing to do. Grandfather in as applicable and offer uses an interface to monitor their compliance.

 

[NigelM]

They do need to be very specific on what exactly all the terms are. We all knew that the superchargers were open to abuse, so did Tesla. Relying on the common sense of people doesn't work because some don't possess any.

We have already seen anecdotal cases in TMC with the lack of a clear policy causing Supercharging anxiety.

I would recommend Tesla to man up/woman up, bite the bullet and set a clear policy. That would be the honest thing to do. Grandfather in as applicable and offer uses an interface to monitor their compliance.

Let's just note that it's poor etiquette by some owners that is causing issues in a few places, those people's actions aren't Tesla's fault. The cure you're advocating is potentially going to have far worse consequences for the vast majority of owners:

1. The long discussions on algorithms in this thread and the charging scenarios in other threads make one thing clear...There's no such thing as a short concise and specific policy. If you want a policy covering various eventualities you're going to end up with a handbook of rules.
2. Identification of individuals not abiding by those rules is not easy given the privacy implications. Clearly Tesla tried to avoid that with their mail algorithm which is why some folks received a letter even though they don't have a local Supercharger.
3. Enforcement is extremely difficult, if not practically impossible. Throttling is just going to block up the chargers even more. Cutting access completely is an extreme solution and watch out for the outcry over horror stories if/when a single mistake is made.
4. Why would the company set themselves up to become the Supercharger compliance police? Chances are pretty high that there's a nightmare PR story in that scenario.
5. Offenders will re-offend if they're not educated. With a full set of rules some folks will still ignore those rules or look for loopholes.

The best way to deal with this is to educate owners, set a good example, and spread the word as ambassadors ourselves. Persistent messaging from Tesla, with support of owners, will do the trick eventually.

 

[Krugerrand]

Let's just note that it's poor etiquette by some owners that is causing issues in a few places, those people's actions aren't Tesla's fault. The cure you're advocating is potentially going to have far worse consequences for the vast majority of owners:

1. The long discussions on algorithms in this thread and the charging scenarios in other threads make one thing clear...There's no such thing as a short concise and specific policy. If you want a policy covering various eventualities you're going to end up with a handbook of rules.
2. Identification of individuals not abiding by those rules is not easy given the privacy implications. Clearly Tesla tried to avoid that with their mail algorithm which is why some folks received a letter even though they don't have a local Supercharger.
3. Enforcement is extremely difficult, if not practically impossible. Throttling is just going to block up the chargers even more. Cutting access completely is an extreme solution and watch out for the outcry over horror stories if/when a single mistake is made.
4. Why would the company set themselves up to become the Supercharger compliance police? Chances are pretty high that there's a nightmare PR story in that scenario.
5. Offenders will re-offend if they're not educated. With a full set of rules some folks will still ignore those rules or look for loopholes.

The best way to deal with this is to educate owners, set a good example, and spread the word as ambassadors ourselves. Persistent messaging from Tesla, with support of owners, will do the trick eventually.

Infinity +1

Just to add an example for #5: Saw someone park a classic car (ICE) in a very clearly marked *CLEAN AIR VEHICLE* parking spot yesterday (beside a Model S). And yes, the two guys that got out of the car could read English.