Supercharging letter from Tesla 8-13-2015

[Max*]

how about something much simpler:

if(Owner frequently skips charging at home and prefers using superchargers instead)[INDENT]send politely worded letter
[/INDENT]
[INDENT]return;
[/INDENT]
end

You need to define each of the steps, right? What are the constraints for "frequently"? How would you define "skip"? What if I forget to charge tonight, I'd get a letter tomorrow?

Or what if I drive 150 miles one way for work, I SpC in between twice a day. On my way home I SpC extra long to get home and only need to charge for 20RM. Am I abusing the system? Maybe.

On the KISS side, I thnk Matteo's implementation is very clever.

 

[Matteo]

You can argue that I abused the SpC nonetheless by overcharging in the first place.

Yes that was my idea. Let's say the station is 30 miles from home and somebody returns from a trip and supercharges at that station before driving home. This system allows them adding 60 miles charge. Plus they have any buffer they had when they arrived at the station. However I noticed v3 would fail when Tesla is used as a taxi or Uber car. I have now added another criteria.

Can you compare my v3 and your last version? Also maybe add more information what home means in your version and possibly integrate that to code.

Flag this:
A) If someone is using local superchargers for daily driving.
B) If Tesla is a local taxi or Uber car fuelled with superchargers

Don't flag any of these:
C) If someone is going to work daily using 1 supercharger
D) If someone has a weekend location 1 supercharger away
E) If someone is doing only road trips and no local driving

 

[Max*]

Yes that was my idea. Let's say the station is 30 miles from home and somebody returns from a trip and supercharges at that station before driving home. This system allows them adding 60 miles charge. Plus they have any buffer they had when they arrived at the station. However I noticed v3 would fail when Tesla is used as a taxi or Uber car. I have now added another criteria.

Can you compare my v3 and your last version? Also maybe add more information what home means in your version and possibly integrate that to code.

Flag this:
A) If someone is using local superchargers for daily driving.
B) If Tesla is a local taxi or Uber car fuelled with superchargers

Don't flag any of these:
C) If someone is going to work daily using 1 supercharger
D) If someone has a weekend location 1 supercharger away
E) If someone is doing only road trips and no local driving

I like your version, it's very KISS. I'm a big fan of KISS. My version may or may not work better, but it's a lot more complex.

Also, your version is missing one thing I later added -- I often overcharge when I visit my inlaws, because they only have 120V charging, so I'd get a letter each time I visited them. They have a SpC nearby. Am I abusing the system? That's debatable.

 

[Matteo]

Max, actually find the code confusing. Can you use IF, AND, OR instead if you write more versions? I love excel :smile:

 

[Max*]

it's also worth noting that when south jersey was hit with a tornado a few weeks ago, the "100% local supercharging" is what allowed me to continue to commute to work daily since we were out of power for 5 or 6 days.

My wife had the same fear, that one day we'll lose power and if we had 2 EVs we'd be stranded (we have an EV and an ICE). Gas stations don't work without power either, but you can more easily find a working gas station than a working Tesla SpC nearby (on the east coast).

- - - Updated - - -

Max, actually find the code confusing. Can you use IF, AND, OR instead if you write more versions? I love excel :smile:

I'm a MATLAB / C++ person

Excel does If's also

 

[leafarmer]

I received the letter, and have a driving pattern that's not very common. Most of my charging has been at superchargers, and most of that has been across the country, so I am using it as intended. However, for the past six months or so my pattern has changed.

My car was purchased in Texas, and the address for that car is still there, but I've only used Texas superchargers five or six times since they opened, so "local" isn't based on where my car is addressed. Recently I've been traveling between the San Joaquin valley and Mendocino county in California two or three times per month. The one way distance is 175 miles, so it is possible to do this on one charge. At one end of this commute I can charge rather quickly, but not at the other. However, the Petaluma supercharger is directly on my route, and happens to be at the supermarket where I shop. I've now used it many times, typically for the duration of my shopping, 20 to 30 minutes. It's very convenient, and means I'm not stranded with a nearly discharged battery at my destination.

I'd like to know what this community thinks of my supercharger usage.

 

[Max*]

Max, actually find the code confusing. Can you use IF, AND, OR instead if you write more versions? I love excel :smile:

Is this easier to read? Same logic, just formated differently.

#define Owner = someone who has a Tesla

if(Home stored in nav)
   Home = nav home;
else
   Home = median(GPS location for the past 365 days); //will work in most cases
end


If (BOTH of the below criteria)
    1. Owner uses superchargers within 50 mile radius of home //doing a 50mile x2 (100mile) roundtrip to supercharger to avoid paying home fees is reducing your car range by 50% roughly! No sane person would do this.
    2. Owner uses superchargers more than home charging //weeding out the occasional local top offs
Then //The above rules out 90% of people, so that we save runtime
   Loop through all superchargers Owner has historically used
      1. IF SpC stop followed by another Spc stop within 6 hours //roadtrip cases
         THEN do nothing //could also add recursive to take this out of the list, and restart the whole algorithm
      2. IF Owner drove out of a 1.25x radius of SpC around his house
         THEN do nothing // if you supercharged locally, but drove far enough away (similar to your 50% kwH example), then do nothing
         ELSE send politely worded letter; return;

 

[scaesare]

I almost without exception get caught up on a thread before responding to a post, to make sure others haven't already said what I'm planning on saying. I'm four or five pages from being caught up on this thread, but need to comment on this now:

I strongly disagree with the quoted comment above. For starters, Bonnie and Nigel don't do that. Sure, there are threads on which they agree, and one will support the other, but I don't see that happening nearly as often as you suggest.

More importantly, I, and I believe most other TMC members, have a great deal of respect for both Bonnie and Nigel. I've only been around less than a year, so I'm not the best judge of the long-term history of TMC, but from what I can tell I'd be hard-pressed to come up with two people who have done more for the good of the TMC community than those two. I value both of their opinions very highly. There is no doubt in my mind that each speaks their own mind, and if they were to disagree, they would say so. The fact that they agree much more than they disagree is just a testament to the fact that they are both very smart people who have been around a long time, know a lot about Tesla, and want the company to succeed. (This is one of the reasons I dislike it when I disagree with either of them.)

I imagine as I read through the next five (or by now possibly six) pages of this thread I'll find other comments along the lines of mine. (At least I hope I will.) I just couldn't continue reading posts in this thread without responding to this myself.

I'm going to post complimenting you on your excellently thought out and cogent post, just to see who fails to see the irony in that so I can get me some Friday lolz... :wink:

 

[dhanson865]

OK, I think I have an idea that might work. I picked a user who has a weekend location he visits regularly. At the same time this user is abusing local superchargers near home and near his weekend location. I think the following system would differentiate between long distance trips and local top ups. The idea is to look where the car is parked overnight before and after supercharging. Here is an example that shows a record of 5+ hours parking and supercharging events

8.5 hours parked at home (GPS location A)
Supercharged at station 1
8.5 hours parked at home (GPS location A)
Supercharged at station 1
8.5 hours parked at home (GPS location A)
Supercharged at station 1
8.5 hours parked at weekend location (GPS location B)
Supercharged at station 2
8.5 hours parked at weekend location (GPS location B)
Supercharged at station 2
8.5 hours parked at weekend location (GPS location B)
Supercharged at station 2
8.5 hours parked at home (GPS location A)
Supercharged at station 1

As you see whenever the user drives from home to weekend location, those supercharge sessions would not be flagged because he doesn't park for longer than 5 hours at same location before and after supercharging.

If location A is home and location B is work I might spend more than 5 hours at both locations. Not everyone moves their car at lunchtime everyday. I could specifically game this algorithm by having my lunch delivered or getting a ride with someone else for lunch.

 

[Max*]

If location A is home and location B is work I might spend more than 5 hours at both locations. Not everyone moves their car at lunchtime everyday. I could specifically game this algorithm by having my lunch delivered or getting a ride with someone else for lunch.

That's because you know the algorithm. In Tesla's case, the algorithm would be a black box. And it's pretty hard to reverse engineer something when all you get is a letter at what seems like random.

 

[stopcrazypp]

If location A is home and location B is work I might spend more than 5 hours at both locations. Not everyone moves their car at lunchtime everyday. I could specifically game this algorithm by having my lunch delivered or getting a ride with someone else for lunch.

I think the idea is that is that it is okay to have false negatives. The goal is not to match every abuser, but to avoid sending letters to non-abusers (as seem to have happened in this case).

 

[PaulusdB]

... And it's pretty hard to reverse engineer something when all you get is a letter at what seems like random.

Yes, let's get back to that original puzzle.

 

[TexasEV]

I received the letter, and have a driving pattern that's not very common. Most of my charging has been at superchargers, and most of that has been across the country, so I am using it as intended. However, for the past six months or so my pattern has changed.

My car was purchased in Texas, and the address for that car is still there, but I've only used Texas superchargers five or six times since they opened, so "local" isn't based on where my car is addressed. Recently I've been traveling between the San Joaquin valley and Mendocino county in California two or three times per month. The one way distance is 175 miles, so it is possible to do this on one charge. At one end of this commute I can charge rather quickly, but not at the other. However, the Petaluma supercharger is directly on my route, and happens to be at the supermarket where I shop. I've now used it many times, typically for the duration of my shopping, 20 to 30 minutes. It's very convenient, and means I'm not stranded with a nearly discharged battery at my destination.

I'd like to know what this community thinks of my supercharger usage.

I can't imaging anyone having a problem with that.
The only local use that is being criticized (and appropriately so) are those who could charge at home overnight but choose not to, and those who park at a local supercharger for extended periods of time, such as shopping for hours or dropping off their car for a charge and coming back later to pick it up.

 

[Max*]

Yes, let's get back to that original puzzle.

lmao!

 

[supratachophobia]

Is this easier to read? Same logic, just formated differently.

#define Owner = someone who has a Tesla

if(Home stored in nav)
   Home = nav home;
else
   Home = median(GPS location for the past 365 days); //will work in most cases
end


If (BOTH of the below criteria)
    1. Owner uses superchargers within 50 mile radius of home //doing a 50mile x2 (100mile) roundtrip to supercharger to avoid paying home fees is reducing your car range by 50% roughly! No sane person would do this.
    2. Owner uses superchargers more than home charging //weeding out the occasional local top offs
Then //The above rules out 90% of people, so that we save runtime
   Loop through all superchargers Owner has historically used
      1. IF SpC stop followed by another Spc stop within 6 hours //roadtrip cases
         THEN do nothing //could also add recursive to take this out of the list, and restart the whole algorithm
      2. IF Owner drove out of a 1.25x radius of SpC around his house
         THEN do nothing // if you supercharged locally, but drove far enough away (similar to your 50% kwH example), then do nothing
         ELSE send politely worded letter; return;

So let me get this straight, you've just come up with an query for Tesla that more or less accurately identifies (or at least far better than what they actually did) the exact demographic they want to identify so they can send polite emails to said identified persons to remind them about supercharger etiquette and intended supercharger use so they can voluntarily change their habits in the hopes of making supercharging better for everyone?

Doesn't Tesla PAY people to do this? I mean, it literally boggles my mind they they have a staff of communication/marketing experts that had trouble with this. I'm so blinded by the absurdity, the letter itself isn't even registering with me.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I received the letter, and have a driving pattern that's not very common. Most of my charging has been at superchargers, and most of that has been across the country, so I am using it as intended. However, for the past six months or so my pattern has changed.

My car was purchased in Texas, and the address for that car is still there, but I've only used Texas superchargers five or six times since they opened, so "local" isn't based on where my car is addressed. Recently I've been traveling between the San Joaquin valley and Mendocino county in California two or three times per month. The one way distance is 175 miles, so it is possible to do this on one charge. At one end of this commute I can charge rather quickly, but not at the other. However, the Petaluma supercharger is directly on my route, and happens to be at the supermarket where I shop. I've now used it many times, typically for the duration of my shopping, 20 to 30 minutes. It's very convenient, and means I'm not stranded with a nearly discharged battery at my destination.

I'd like to know what this community thinks of my supercharger usage.

I think the general definition is if you took advantage of every home charging opportunity you had, it is not abuse. If you purposefully don't charge at home even when you can (this includes not installing a outlet to do charging at home even when it is trivial to do so) with the main goal of using superchargers to save money (not the convenience or because you had no other practical choice) that is considered abuse. Easy to put in English, but in algorithm form it is not so easy.

 

[Max*]

So let me get this straight, you've just come up with an query for Tesla that more or less accurately identifies (or at least far better than what they actually did) the exact demographic they want to identify so they can send polite emails to said identified persons to remind them about supercharger etiquette and intended supercharger use so they can voluntarily change their habits in the hopes of making supercharging better for everyone?

Doesn't Tesla PAY people to do this? I mean, it literally boggles my mind they they have a staff of communication/marketing experts that had trouble with this. I'm so blinded by the absurdity, the letter itself isn't even registering with me.

Mine isn't perfect, there are some corner cases I missed. But I did this in a couple hours juggling real work with this. Eh, I like a challenge. I'm sure someone who spends a full day, un-distracted, can get it near perfect (high PD/low FAR is acceptable, no one is aiming for 100% perfection with exactly 0 false positives/negatives).

 

[yobigd20]

Doesn't Tesla PAY people to do this? I mean, it literally boggles my mind they they have a staff of communication/marketing experts that had trouble with this.

Eh. Not much apparently lol looking at the avg software engineer salary on glassdoor it's very very low for that area. Hard to keep around good talent IMO unless you pay them more.

 

[Andyw2100]

#define Owner = someone who has a Tesla

if(Home stored in nav)
   Home = nav home;
else
   Home = median(GPS location for the past 365 days); //will work in most cases
end[/QUOTE]

I don't program.

But couldn't an abuser successfully evade detection by your algorithm simply by setting their home location in the NAV system to a location they never charge near? For example, someone abusing the Superchargers in the Bay Area, and occasionally travelling to LA, or elsewhere on the west coast simply sets their home location as New York City in the NAV system.

And before you answer and say that people wouldn't realize that this is how they were being targeted, I recall in the "Is Tesla limiting the Supercharging speed" thread (that wasn't the exact thread title) people suggesting changing the home location in the NAV, to see what impact it would have. My point is, that is one of the first things people will think to do.

If I'm wrong about that being a flaw in your system, I apologize. Just chalk it up to my not being familiar with coding.

 

[yobigd20]

I don't program.

But couldn't an abuser successfully evade detection by your algorithm simply by setting their home location in the NAV system to a location they never charge near? For example, someone abusing the Superchargers in the Bay Area, and occasionally travelling to LA, or elsewhere on the west coast simply sets their home location as New York City in the NAV system.

And before you answer and say that people wouldn't realize that this is how they were being targeted, I recall in the "Is Tesla limiting the Supercharging speed" thread (that wasn't the exact thread title) people suggesting changing the home location in the NAV, to see what impact it would have. My point is, that is one of the first things people will think to do.

If I'm wrong about that being a flaw in your system, I apologize. Just chalk it up to my not being familiar with coding.

No if they were smart they'd look to see where the car was parked for a majority of the night instead of looking where they set home as in the nav.