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Supercharging Nightmare Begins

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Tesla opened up their Supercharger patents years ago. Other manufacturers didn't want to support the Tesla charging standard. If other manufacturers want to use the Tesla Supercharger network, they would be required to contribute to building it out.

It would be hard to sell third party charging for Teslas when Tesla gives it away to so many and charge so little to the rest. You'd have to find a spot where a lot of people want charging and there aren't enough Tesla chargers. . . . I wonder if there's anyplace like that???
 
I'm not sure about contributions to building out the network, unless you mean indirectly, like based on pay-per-use. I can see Tesla agreeing to that for revenue from charging stations, and to further the effort to transition to EVs. If Porsche made an EV that could use Tesla's supercharger network, you've got me in the door and going for a test drive, and I'm sure a lot of others too. However, without a comparable fast charging network, you can't get me in the door of a Porsche/BMW/Mercedes or "you name it" dealership and that's a shame because competition is good for everyone, including Tesla.

I don't agree with that. You just said you'd be looking hard at Porsche if they had a charging network. That means less sales for Tesla. Unless a company like Porsche wanted to help pay for installing chargers, it would clearly not be in Tesla's benefit to share the network. Not only does it make the competitor's cars look better, with increased usage of the charging network it makes Teslas look worse.
 
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I'm not sure about contributions to building out the network, unless you mean indirectly, like based on pay-per-use. I can see Tesla agreeing to that for revenue from charging stations, and to further the effort to transition to EVs. If Porsche made an EV that could use Tesla's supercharger network, you've got me in the door and going for a test drive, and I'm sure a lot of others too. However, without a comparable fast charging network, you can't get me in the door of a Porsche/BMW/Mercedes or "you name it" dealership and that's a shame because competition is good for everyone, including Tesla.


No test drives on the new Porsche. But they will take your deposit, but you are looking at 2 year wait right now if everyone that put down a deposit buys.

My belief is that one day Tesla will get to CCS everywhere. They have already committed to do this in the Europe including updating the Superchargers. And doing it in the US would streamline their manufacturing. They can still give Tesla owners benefits like free charging at Tesla branded CCS chargers to set Tesla apart from the other manufactures.
 
I don't agree with that. You just said you'd be looking hard at Porsche if they had a charging network. That means less sales for Tesla. Unless a company like Porsche wanted to help pay for installing chargers, it would clearly not be in Tesla's benefit to share the network. Not only does it make the competitor's cars look better, with increased usage of the charging network it makes Teslas look worse.

Tesla's Mission Statement must be referenced when determining what benefits Tesla:

"Tesla’s mission is to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy."*

This mission does not require Tesla itself to survive. In fact, Musk readily admitted years ago on 60 Minutes that he never expected Tesla to survive. It's the mission that was (and still is) the most important -- not Tesla:


I'm an investor in TSLA -- and have been for a long time. But I knew going in what their Mission Statement was because they told us what it was. It was not about Tesla at all -- let alone about making Tesla look good or worse, to use your words. If Porsche brings EVs to market faster because they can use Tesla's fast charger network, that accords with Tesla's Mission Statement -- as a fact -- no opinion or agreement required.

*Tesla’s mission statement was “to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable transport.” However, in mid-2016, under Elon Musk’s leadership, the company changed the corporate mission to “to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy.”

No test drives on the new Porsche. But they will take your deposit, but you are looking at 2 year wait right now if everyone that put down a deposit buys.

You missed my point -- the "test drive" meant consideration would be given to a brand other than Tesla if there was a comparable fast charging network or they could use Tesla's sc network. I don't need to actually test drive it. I bought my 3 without a test drive or even seeing one in person but knowing it was supported by the sc network.
 
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Proof is in the picture
 

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No, all I'm saying is that if ALL Tesla owners did ALL their charging on Superchargers then we would be lining up around the block to charge our cars.

Those people, like the OP, who are unable to charge at home should seriously consider whether or not to buy an EV right now or at least suck up the inconvenience of having to wait in turn to charge at an SC instead of complaining about Model 3s using them!

I think OP is not blaming Model 3s but rather stating his/her observations. I live in a condo but have charging facilities but I do know that many urban rentals may not have that option, at least right now. Even my OA pushed the supercharging card saying you don't even need to charge at home, yada yada yada.

OP should have done some research on supercharging but some people are more gullible than others and sounds like OP just trusted the OA maybe because Tesla kind of has a perception in the general public of being a "honest" company.

Prolly not fair to bash the OP for pointing out what he/she observes at the stations. For anyone planning to buy a 100% EV, this thread should serve as a caution before clicking on that purchase button.
 
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I live in the SF Bay Area. We are fortunate to have bought a house in the 'burbs while we still could, and I can charge our EVs overnight. Although one is a Tesla with free supercharging, and we have taken long road trips (WY/ MT, SoCal, Eastern Sierra) impossible in any other EV, we rarely supercharge near home. Just because we *can* do something to save a few $$, doesn't mean we should. Tesla messages that the SC's are to enable travel, not to get a free charge when you have a home charger available, and we respect this position. And, charging at 10kW overnight is better for the battery in the long run, which makes it a wiser choice even in purely financial terms.

Around here, it is totally plausible that buying an MX was well within the OP's means, but he/she does not have a garage with power. There may only be street parking, or he/she may have a $1M+ apartment with garage spaces but no power for a charger. So don't assume the OP has a better option, or that you can validly infer that buying an MX was a financially irresponsible decision by the OP. Real estate is absolutely crazy here.

The big question is, how much of the current SC demand will taper off as 6 month free charging deals expire and owners start using cheaper power overnight (for us, $0.14 per kWh at home 11pm-7am vs $0.26 if we had to pay for SC). Tesla would need to know the housing mix used by local M3 owners to estimate how many will continue to use superchargers as their only charging resource.

As a former Bay Area resident I absolutely agree. Those who do not know the Bay and its cost of living likely are not going to understand what the OP has stated based on his/her observation. Glad I moved out of the Bay Area, its freaking crazy up there!
 
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@Canuck

Tesla has a responsibility to survive for the employees and families.

Elon has also said that sustainable transport needs to be profitable transport.

Elon is being theatrical when he said he doesn’t care if Tesla dies or that they were close to death.
 
I have seen an astounding increase in supercharging station use within the past 3 months. Went from no waiting for a charging station almost any time of the day to waiting for a station every time (sometimes at least for 30mins!).

I don’t have any other means to charge the MX at the moment other than the supercharging station.

Almost every 2nd car I see is a Model 3 waiting to charge. Obviously this has impacted the supercharging stations.

This is in the SF Bay Area.
I decided to quote the OP so that people can get reacquainted with the topic. I don’t think that the OP is criticizing, only pointing out the facts. Since CA has about 50% of the Tesla’s sold and the Bay Area is the epicenter, one would expect these issues to be manifested here first (along with LA and San Diego). Obviously more SCs are required, including enough to handle holiday surges and locals who live in apartments/condos. My guess is that 2x average daily use is required to handle these issues. Also, as Electrify America, GreenLots, EVGo, etc install other DCQC stations this will help the situation. Finally, once 150-350 KW CCS stations start to become ubiquitous, then Tesla might eventually provide the ability to charge at these locations. Unfortunately, we won’t reach equilibrium for decades, until every vehicle in the US is an EV. We might as well get used to this fact. The only guaranteed station is at home, and even that might be interrupted by power outages. This is much better that the gasoline alternative, for which we don’t normally have a private energy source.

I feel for the OP: Having to supercharge in the Bay Area as your only option, wow, what a personal Hell. I certainly hope it gets better for you, but I don’t think the next 6 months will be any easier. Tesla is focused on delivering the maximum number of EVs to the US while the tax credit is still available. Charging stations are way down the priority list, probably after Service Centers, Right Hand Drive, Model Y, Semi, and Model S/X update for the newer 21700 battery. This is exactly what Tesla needs to be doing. Don’t fault them for their efforts.

Focus on your own needs and happiness. Try moving your charging to off hours, early mornings, or level 2 stations. If you can help Tesla by suggesting locations for charging installation, then great, please do. Everyone who owns a business or who knows business owners, landowners, or landlords, please help to make the case for electric vehicle charging, even if it’s just J1772 and non-Tesla specific. Believe me, I know how difficult it is to get these charging stations installed. everyone seems to be against them. I personally have been instrumental in getting several stations installed in a very anti-EV area. It’s very difficult, even in the best situation. We, in the EV community, need to rise above this and get it done. We’re talking about thousands of charging stations in big cities and millions nationwide.

I consider myself fortunate because I charge on 120V in my garage and use my 2011 Leaf for all local driving, while the S70D awaits the next road trip. Not everyone is that fortunate. My last trip to southern CA was before the Model 3, and most Model Xs were built, but even so I experienced the charging anxiety that you have on a daily basis. We’re all in this together. Let’s beat gasoline first, then we can focus on beating other EVs.
 
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@Canuck
Tesla has a responsibility to survive for the employees and families.

That can be said about all companies since no company survives forever. Your point?

@Canuck
Elon has also said that sustainable transport needs to be profitable transport.

Of course it does, once it gets off the ground -- and that takes time. Hence Tesla's Mission Statement. But please don't be so quick to forget that Elon was more than happy to take gov't funding (and paid it back with interest in advance of its due date) so Tesla could survive. Again, however, Tesla is all about "accelerating the world's transition to sustainable transport/energy" -- it's not about Tesla's survival in itself, unless needed to sustain the end goal. So things like opening up Tesla's costly patents for free, fair use by competitors will never fit into your theory -- but it does fit into my stated facts and Tesla's Mission Statement, like a glove.

@Canuck
Elon is being theatrical when he said he doesn’t care if Tesla dies or that they were close to death.

You really shouldn't misquote him so carelessly without at least a link to what you are alleging he said. I say you will never find him utter those words since they are the exact opposite of what he said -- which is that if the mission is important enough, failure becomes irrelevant since you're obligated to try. No theatrics or getting inside his head is required since he has told us this many times, one of which I quoted above -- in his own words. He never said he doesn't care if Tesla fails -- theatrically or otherwise! Of course he cares, and deeply. But you forget or don't know that practically every expert in the field said it was impossible to start a new American car company. Failure wasn't something esoteric -- it was a foregone conclusion to most including Musk when he took over the company (since he was not involved from the start, didn't name the company, etc.). The success of Tesla is still a surprise to Musk, and was much more precarious to him than to us who only rooted them on from the sidelines, waiting for our model 3s to be delivered, while he lived at the factory on the brink of failure, bleeding money, not meeting targets, and all only a short time ago. I guess it's nice for you to think it's all fun and theatrics but really there was a lot of Ambien involved, again according to Musk himself. Reality and facts.
 
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I decided to quote the OP so that people can get reacquainted with the topic. I don’t think that the OP is criticizing, only pointing out the facts.

Whatever the motive, it's also a fact that the OP is significantly contributing to the very issue they are raising by using Superchargers for all their charging needs, so it comes across as a very ironic observation! We can discuss the reasons why they cannot charge elsewhere all day long, but it doesn't change the fairly obvious reality that Superchargers are going to get increasingly busy with Model 3 and then Model Y roll-out and especially so if they use the Superchargers for all their charging exactly as the OP currently does.

Increasing the number of Superchargers is one solution, but I don't expect it will be enough and will take considerable time. So maybe people reading this thread who are thinking of buying a Tesla and charging it exclusively at Superchargers, especially in this specific location, should perhaps think again?
 
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@Canuck

TSLA takes up an unhealthy and disproportionate percentage of my investable funds.

I follow developments closely but not to the point of being able to pull out everything he’s said down to the exact linkable tweet or article on a moments notice.

There’s a lot to respond to but I’ll start with the easy debunk that Tesla was 9 weeks or less from insolvency.

1.) They still have S and X sales which is revenue which would slow down the rate of cash burn.
2.) They can raise capital if they wanted to. Won’t means can’t.
3.) Elon can personally prop up Tesla if needed leveraging his own assets and other companies if it came down to it.

Lastly, Tesla wouldn’t be handing out pitty checks over 3P gate if they really couldn’t afford it.
 
You missed my point -- the "test drive" meant consideration would be given to a brand other than Tesla if there was a comparable fast charging network or they could use Tesla's sc network. I don't need to actually test drive it. I bought my 3 without a test drive or even seeing one in person but knowing it was supported by the sc network.

Got it. Hopefully, by the time Porsche ships in quantity, Electrify America fast chargers will be more widely available here in the states. No idea about a Canadian variant. Here in the states, we look for one of these cool looking chargers that are popping up. This one is
8 miles from my house at a shopping mall.

elec-America-charger-small.jpg


They are being paid for in large part ($2 Billion) by VW as part of their dieselgate settlement. I hope Canada got a slice of that pie. In the US, it should add 900 locations by the end of 2019 with 5,000 charging ports. On their site they say,

"Electrify America’s DC Fast EV charging stations will be located along high-traffic corridors in 39 states, including two cross-country routes. Locations will accommodate between four and ten chargers, with charging power levels up to 350kW available at every station, capable of adding 20 miles of range per minute to a vehicle. Nationally, each planned station site will be located no more than 120 miles apart and, on key East and West Coast highways, planned locations average only 70 miles apart."
 
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I have seen an astounding increase in supercharging station use within the past 3 months. Went from no waiting for a charging station almost any time of the day to waiting for a station every time (sometimes at least for 30mins!).

I don’t have any other means to charge the MX at the moment other than the supercharging station.

Almost every 2nd car I see is a Model 3 waiting to charge. Obviously this has impacted the supercharging stations.

This is in the SF Bay Area.
Don't forget, every Model 3, ('cept Performance) are paying for their use.
 
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Just a pertinent note, there are NO SCs (NONE!) in entire state of Arkansas, not even in Little Rock, which is at crossroads of 2 major interstates in center of the country. Tesla does have significant catching up to do for long distance travel.