Supercharging now more expensive than ICE

[Chomlee]

So driving back from our weekend trip today, our % estimate when arriving home was 10%. No worry but we figured we would try the supercharger for the first time. I have an MYP and typically get about 300 Whr/mile on the highway (about 3.33 miles/Kwhr). Anyhow, we stopped at a supercharger and added about 10% for good measure and to test out the billing setup on our account. The charge for 8KWhr was $3.34. our current gas cost/gal is about that where we live here in Florida. This means that the converted MPG is about 26 mpg when supercharging. This is only slightly better than our full size SUV for highway driving. We decided at that point that for long trips, we will just take the SUV.

I understand that charging at home is 1/3 to 1/4 of the cost but it seems to me that by pricing superchargers that high, you deter people from using teslas for long trips which also in turn negates the advantage for most people to even have such a vast Tesla network unless you don’t have access to an ice vehicle at all.

in other words since we have 2 cars (1 EV and 1 ICE), there isn’t any advantage to us to even have the network if there is no advantage to even drive the EV on long trips (especially over a full size SUV). Let’s see, stop every 150 miles, wait 20 min for charge, or go 300 miles and fill up gas for 5 min and the cost is the same? Don’t get me wrong, the network is great for emergencies but I am disappointed that one Of the main advantages of supercharging is now gone.

BTW, obviously for those with lifetime free charging, the network is a no brainer.

 

[Chisale]

I recently did a calcuation when gas was $5.00 that the break even point was 50 mpg. Now that's it's back well under $4.00 you're talking about the break even point being similar to many cars on the road. On longer trips you can decrease your Supercharger consumption by working in free hotel charging here and there and that helps quite a bit. But there's no doubt about it, only supercharging isn't cheap. Just be glad you're not in a cold climate. Once your consumption gets up around 340 to 350 Wh/mi then the break even point cascades down in a big way. Definitely, with gas prices lower now if you take your EV on a long trip, it's because you want to drive the EV; not because you want to save money.

 

[Skipdd]

I’m one of those lucky folks that have free supercharging. Still, I’m very interested in the topic for lots of reasons. I have a late 2017 MS 100D, so roughly the same range as you. I did a little bit of research after reading your post. I will caveat my thoughts with again noting, this is not a topic I’ve studied extensively. That said:

• It appears rates vary by geography, so your analysis may differ by locale. Unless it is the case that the price differential between Tesla’s rates and local gas rates is the same everywhere. I’d like more data to know if that is generally true or not. Also, it appears rates may differ by time of day, so you might factor that in if you are able to arrive at a SuperCharger during off-peak times. And I saw another poster pointed out using Destination Chargers, which I have done. In fact I try to pick hotels that have them
• My experience driving a Tesla vs any other car for long distances causes me to prefer a Tesla 90% of the time with cost the same or even more. I might reconsider if the cost was a lot more (1.5x - 2x depending on distances). We have an ICE SUV purchased before the MY was available
• Reasons why I prefer Tesla 90% of the time:
  • I have EAP, which is basically FSD except for city streets, albeit the latest release of FSD may now offer more functionality. When FSD goes GA, if I understand correctly, I should get the camera version for highway only - but maybe not. Even w/o it, as is, it is a HUGE benefit to me. The level of driver fatigue is greatly reduced using this feature. Have not experienced anything like it in an ICE vehicle
  • Ability to easily pass and slow back down again on the highway. Unless you have a stick sports car, there is no comparison
  • Safety. If you are unfamiliar, look it up
  • Stereo - unless I spend thousands extra for hi fidelity, nothing comes close (our other car is a Porsche SUV - it’s nice but not the same)
  • Fun factor - I love driving the car. I could give more examples but this is enough
• Reasons why I would choose an ICE
  • Potential for off road or otherwise poor road conditions, e.g., flooding. This may not be an issue since you have the Y
  • Might need more cargo space. We just took a vacation across the country (flew there). Would have loved renting a Tesla, and probably would have paid the premium, but would have needed the X. We rented a Ford Expedition, for part of the trip and an Infinity Q80 for the rest (2 different destinations). 6 people + luggage. Btw, Expedition was head and shoulders better than the Infinity - I’ve no bias as I had never been in either. Boy did I miss my MS driving up a mountain to 10,000 ft.

 

[Chomlee]

I recently did a calcuation when gas was $5.00 that the break even point was 50 mpg. Now that's it's back well under $4.00 you're talking about the break even point being similar to many cars on the road. On longer trips you can decrease your Supercharger consumption by working in free hotel charging here and there and that helps quite a bit. But there's no doubt about it, only supercharging isn't cheap. Just be glad you're not in a cold climate. Once your consumption gets up around 340 to 350 Wh/mi then the break even point cascades down in a big way. Definitely, with gas prices lower now if you take your EV on a long trip, it's because you want to drive the EV; not because you want to save money.

Agreed, and just to be clear. I didn’t get the Tesla because I wanted to save money (obviously the cost of the car makes the break even point quite high). I got the car because I like being able to charge at home, I like the way they drive.

 

[LoudMusic]

Agreed, and just to be clear. I didn’t get the Tesla because I wanted to save money (obviously the cost of the car makes the break even point quite high). I got the car because I like being able to charge at home, I like the way they drive.

Most people I talk to that are "anti-EV" feel that way because they don't want to spend an hour a week at a charging location. When I tell them I charge in my garage and never go anywhere special to put electricity in the car they get a very puzzled look on their face and I can see gears starting to spin in their mind.

 

[keydiver]

So driving back from our weekend trip today, our % estimate when arriving home was 10%. No worry but we figured we would try the supercharger for the first time. The charge for 8KWhr was $3.34.

Was that around Jacksonville? I too was very surprised that the Supercharging there was about $.45 per kWh. We drove my Model YLR to PA a few months ago, and that was our first stop. After that, I started checking out the kWh rates before I would choose an SC to stop at. But, you also need to be aware that some of the SC's charge more at higher kW charge rates, so stopping for a small amount, like 8 kWh, will skew the average a lot higher. But, as you charge, and the kW rate drops, it gets cheaper to charge. That is because many electric companies charge by "demand rate" I believe it is called. The more amps you demand, the higher the charge per kWh. It's not really Tesla's fault that some utilities charge so much more. Most of the SC's we stopped at the rest of the way to PA were about $.35 per kWh.

 

[Chomlee]

Was that around Jacksonville? I too was very surprised that the Supercharging there was about $.45 per kWh. .

it was on the turnpike near yeehaw junction, but everywhere I looked in Florida , it looks like $.45 is the standard.

 

[RTPEV]

I guess it depends on how you travel, but having many long distance trips in my Model 3, even if Supercharging was as expensive as gas at any particular Supercharger, I tend to not literally just drive on a trip. There are obviously times when we are stopped, which present charging opportunities.

The last trip we took (about 1800 miles), I charged at most of the overnight stops we made, and that can certainly change the math. For example, we charged at my son's house one the first night. Only 120V so we only got about 50 miles of range, but that's not nothing (saved us maybe $8 worth of gas). At our first destination, we charged at my in-laws...again, 120V, but we were there for close to a week so was able to fill up the car (saving another $40 worth). And that brings up another advantage of taking an EV: when we left, we had a full "tank". In a gas car, due to the remote location, we always had to stop about 90 minutes into the trip to get gas, but in the Tesla, we could go a full 4 hours during the part of the day we were rested and not in need of a stop. Nice convenience factor there.

The next two nights were in a town/hotel that did not have any charging opportunities (although I did plug into the hotel's outlet for one night).

The last night we were at a hotel that had an L2 charger, plus the town had a few charging stations that I could take advantage of. The hotel's charging station was pay, but it cost less than $10 to fill the car, and again, we had the advantage of leaving with a full battery.

As far as stopping, the pattern is certainly not 150 miles then 20 minute stops...20 minute stops are usually on the long side and usually coincide with eating lunch. Other times they are in the 10-15 minute range, which really is only enough time to use the restroom, grab a snack, and check the phone. And we usually have 3-4 hours between stops, which is about all we can handle anyway. Maybe that's because I have the long range Model 3 (around 220 Wh/mile) and not a shorter range Model Y.

For the entire trip, our Supercharger stops were:

1. Manassas, VA: 11 minutes / $12.25
2. Harrisburg, PA: 16 minutes / $8.16
3. Moosic, PA: 24 minutes / $15.18 (lunch stop)
4. Syracuse, NY: 15 minutes / $15.18
5. Waterloo, NY: 22 minutes / $14.72 (lunch stop)
6. Breezewood, PA: 22 minutes / $13.53 (lunch stop)
7. Staunton, VA: 10 minutes / $8.28
8. Lynchburg, VA: 6 minutes / $7.60 (unnecessary for the car, but we had to pee!)

Total distance was 1860 miles. Total charging cost (including above + overnight hotel charge): $104.90

Certainly more expensive than in the past, but that works out to about $0.056 per mile.

Gas at the time was at least in the high $3, if not low $4 (not sure, don't really pay attention to gas prices any more), but even at $3.50/gal, in a 26 mpg vehicle, that trip would cost $250.38.

I suppose you could make the argument that I used a decent amount of power charging at my son's, my in-laws', and the hotel that I plugged into. At those stops I used 16kWh, 114kWh and 11kWh respectively, or 141kWh total. Even assuming $0.20/kWh, that adds another $28 to my cost, or just about half the cost of taking a gas vehicle.

So I'm not sure if it's some weird anomaly with your very limited single charge data point, or maybe charging is really ridiculously expensive where you stopped, but my experience is that it's still quite a bit less expensive to drive the Tesla.

 

[Silicon Desert]

it was on the turnpike near yeehaw junction, but everywhere I looked in Florida , it looks like $.45 is the standard.

Ouch! Is it just the rate that superchargers are in Florida? What is the electric rate at home?

 

[Chomlee]

Ouch! Is it just the rate that superchargers are in Florida? What is the electric rate at home?

FPL runs about just under $.13/KWhr.

 

[Silicon Desert]

FPL runs about just under $.13/KWhr.

Nice. That is better. Then I would be charging at home whenever possible.
EDIT: Oh, you do know that rates for SC in other areas are better than Florida SC rates for longer trips, right?

 

[Jane4]

Agreed, and just to be clear. I didn’t get the Tesla because I wanted to save money (obviously the cost of the car makes the break even point quite high). I got the car because I like being able to charge at home, I like the way they drive.

Well, that is disturbing--the uptick in costs, I mean. We only have one car--a Tesla, but typically only use it for trips to town and back. We plan a longer road trip in a month--and will be using a Supercharger . I need to pay more attention to the cost--we mostly charge at home, so I have been pretty oblivious.

 

[xxxotic]

I live in South Florida and the supercharger around me on Riviera Beach used to have time of day pricing. Recently they changed it so it's always around 43 since all the time. However there are other chargers in the area that are still time of day.
Does Tesla look at the volume of supercharging and determine if it should be time of day or not? The one near me is always busy so maybe that's why.
Also the prices in Florida vary by a couple cents from one place to another. Is this because different counties charge different sales tax? Doesn't FPL charge everyone the same amount, or does it vary by the total amount at each supercharging station uses?

 

[Jeremy3292]

As I feel the obvious needs to be stated here, supercharging is for road trips only. Why would one ever compare them to gas prices? You charge at home…for cheap…

 

[NKYTA]

IMO, you need to compare it holistically.

You can go 3-6 miles in your Tesla on the electricity required to refine a gallon of gas. Best of class of ICE MPG is what 33 ish?

Somebody do the math on how I went 34k miles this summer and paid $2,400-$2,600 in electricity from paid SCs..

vs $?kk in gas costs (envelope).

And what @Jeremy3292 said, I charge off-peak at home In CA most of the time.

Even if EM has lost the Mission, some of us still think it is smart.

 

[xxxotic]

I charge at home about 80% of the time, and then about 10% at the local city chargers which are free if I am in the area, and then about 10% on superchargers for long road trips. I agree that the most economical and easiest way to do it is at home.
I hope that once Elon opens up the supercharging networks to all vehicles, the price for charging a Tesla will be lower than for non Teslas and as a result more people will think about switching to a Tesla because of the savings and numerous supercharging locations.

 

[Jane4]

Most people I talk to that are "anti-EV" feel that way because they don't want to spend an hour a week at a charging location. When I tell them I charge in my garage and never go anywhere special to put electricity in the car they get a very puzzled look on their face and I can see gears starting to spin in their mind.

It's important to educate folk as to the reality for most of us---charging at home. There is a vast amount of misinformation out there... It's a shame, because electric vehicles do help reduce greenhouse gases.

 

[LoneStarEve]

The last round trip I did from Dallas to Houston two weeks ago worked out to be the same cost as a gas car getting 35mpg. That’s at Texas highway gas prices which are pretty low.
Not many gas cars get an honest 35mpg when cruising at 80mph…
The cost included 3 supercharger sessions plus charging back up to 90% at home which is what we left with.

It’s academic as gas prices will go up again now that OPEC is reducing output unless we release more oil from our strategic reserves which is a very bad idea given current world political tensions.

Man… Americans really can’t give up this gas addiction… any excuse to go back to a gas hog and they jump at it with no view of what it might cost then 1 year in the future much less 5 when they’re still making payments on the thing which is now also out of warranty…

 

[Scrot]

The last round trip I did from Dallas to Houston two weeks ago worked out to be the same cost as a gas car getting 35mpg. That’s at Texas highway gas prices which are pretty low.
Not many gas cars get an honest 35mpg when cruising at 80mph…
The cost included 3 supercharger sessions plus charging back up to 90% at home which is what we left with.

It’s academic as gas prices will go up again now that OPEC is reducing output unless we release more oil from our strategic reserves which is a very bad idea given current world political tensions.

Man… Americans really can’t give up this gas addiction… any excuse to go back to a gas hog and they jump at it with no view of what it might cost then 1 year in the future much less 5 when they’re still making payments on the thing which is now also out of warranty…

Erm...some people who bought a 2018 car might have something to say about supercharger prices doubling and more....

There is nothing wrong with challenging electrical cars to be more reasonably priced for the average person.

Because until then it's reasonable that most people who might not be as comfortable just throwing away money especially as its undeniably less convenient than gas...

 

[LoneStarEve]

“undeniably less convenient than gas...”

Adding “undeniably” to your opinion doesn’t make it true. It’s still just your opinion.

It *can* be less convenient on a road trip although in my experience not by much, adding 30 minutes to a 9.5 hour trip based on the measurements from my trip tracker that I used both in the Y and our prior SUV when I compare remove driving time and just look at the stops. But that means eating lunch at whatever is next to the supercharger vs eating wherever I want and then charging separately. That may be considered inconvenient by some also..

But massively *more* convenient day to day as the car is full every morning so I don’t have to stop for gas when low on the way to work which always seemed to be when I was already running late…

So it’s a mix of slightly more convenient and slightly less convenient depending on your use case.