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Supercharging option pricing/60 kWh pack fee discussion

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by markb1, Sep 26, 2012.

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  1. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    #1 markb1, Sep 26, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
    -- Update 2 --

    GeorgeB's post that those already under contract for 60kWh batteries will not be charged extra, after all:

    Supercharging and 60 kWh Model S Orders - Message from George B

    -- Update --

    Here are GeorgeB's posts:

    Supercharging option pricing/60 kWh pack fee discussion - Page 11

    Supercharging option pricing/60 kWh pack fee discussion - Page 12

    -- Original Post --

    I'm starting a new thread on this, because I feel this discussion is getting lost in the larger supercharger thread. Also, I'm putting it in "Ordering, Production, Delivery", because it's about the cost and inclusion of a feature. But mods, feel free to move it if you think otherwise.

    Anyway, here's the exact quote from Elon's supercharger presentation:

    So it certainly seems like he's saying that supercharging hardware will be available as an option at an additional fee.

    On the other hand, the design studio shows supercharging hardware included at no additional cost:

    Additionally, my MVPA lists supercharge hardware without a fee.

    So I emailed Tesla and got this response:

    There's definitely conflicting information here. So, what to believe?
     
  2. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    My guess is there is an 'incremental charge' for a software update that enables supercharging.

    That way you still are getting hardware for free. But have to pay an incremental charge to be able to use it. And nobody told a fib.
     
  3. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    That's possible, but that differs both with what Elon said (that the fee is for installing the hardware) and with the design studio (which says the software is included with the hardware).
     
  4. kevincwelch

    kevincwelch Active Member

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    I wouldn't read into it too much at this point. The hardware is probably included and enabling it is probably at a fee.

    I don't think Elon intentionally said anything conflicting or deceitful; if you've ever really listened to him speak in interviews or at these Apple-esque events, I think you'll conclude that he's either very nervous when it comes to public speaking out just not that articulate or both. Great guy. Genius. Not a good speaker.
     
  5. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    When did Elon say that?
     
  6. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    See the quote at the top of the thread. It's from Monday's event.
     
  7. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    Ah, I see what you mean. I had understood him to say it would be a fee for the privilege, not for the hardware, but the quote does sound like it's for the hardware. That kind of puts 60 kwh pack buyers on the spot. Hopefully, it won't be a high incremental cost.
     
  8. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    That would be me! :) I actually have my MVPA ready to sign. And my "order by" date is today. But I guess if I sign it, and they decide to charge me extra for the hardware later, they'll have to allow me cancel and refund my deposit. Though I suppose they could still find a way to charge an enabling fee without breaking their end of the deal.
     
  9. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

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    I ordered 60kWh under the assumption that Supercharging hardware was included which it says on the MVPA. Now that Elon has said that the cars via sunlight I don't see how there could be a usage fee. And if I opt into the 4 year service plan I don't see how this could be an additional charge on top of that. Regardless, I emailed by specialist two days ago and have not heard back.
     
  10. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    Here's their press release:

    Tesla Motors Launches Revolutionary Supercharger Enabling Convenient Long Distance Driving | Press Releases | Tesla Motors

    The footnote says:

    So that agrees with Elon and disagrees with the website and my MVPA. I think maybe I should just sign and return the MVPA and hope that locks in free supercharging hardware.
     
  11. KBF

    KBF Model S 2017

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    I understood it to mean that the hardware/software is free, but you'd have to "pay at the pump" so to speak. Makes sense to me, since there is a $10k premium on the 85 kWh pack.
     
  12. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    That wouldn't be too bad for me. I don't drive long distances very often. But I don't see how that interpretation can be made from Elon's statement or the press release.
     
  13. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    It's been pretty clear to me that it works like this:

    60 & 85 kWh cars have the hardware included automatically (no additional cost).
    60 & 85 kwH cars have the necessary software.
    60 kWh cars require a nominal fee to unlock the capability in the software. This is included "free" for the 85 kWh cars.

    Once your 60 kWh car is unlocked, supercharging is free for life from that point on.
     
  14. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    But what's your source for that statement? Neither Elon nor the press release seem to suggest that.
     
  15. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    Honestly, I don't recall. But I remember it being pretty clearly defined in my mind at some point. All of the statements in your first post are in complete agreement with my post, and they are the most recent. I don't see where this disagrees with Elon's statement. He was speaking unscripted...and as you know Elon isn't the most eloquent speaker. I wouldn't parse his words that closely.

    However you interpret it, it doesn't matter from your perspective whether the charge is for a software unlock or a hardware update. I'm almost certain it'll be software, as Tesla will want to make the cars as similar as possible.
     
  16. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    So who will be the first to 'jailbreak' their 60kWh car and supercharge for free? :eek:
     
  17. mitch672

    mitch672 Active Member

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    Even if you somehow figured out how to do that (doubtful), Tesla will "see" your car using the SuperCharger, the cars are GPS enabled, and have 3G data connections, not to mention plugging into the SC itself is likely to log your Model S's VIN anyway.
     
  18. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Thanks for starting the thread, "Battery and Charging" includes discussion of battery and charger options so I'm moving the thread there.
     
  19. youlikeadajuice

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    I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of Tesla's track record on announcing things like this...do they really have no idea that they are going to charge fees for certain things? They announce the service plan after they collect a whole bunch of "Finalize your order" emails that is basically essential to maintain your warranty, then they announce that super charger hardware is included in the 60 kwh Model S, and then a while later say that there will be a fee to use it...hard to believe that this wasn't all known a while ago. I have so many reasons that I really want this car, and they keep giving me reasons not to get it. I mean, what fee will come out next week?
     
  20. kevincwelch

    kevincwelch Active Member

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    This is one of my biggest sources of frustration with Tesla: They have trouble getting all their divisions moving forward in parallel.

    On the options page, it clearly states "Includes all software and on-board hardware" and via illustration that the 60 kWh version has it as standard.

    The supercharging page really does not say anything about who gets what and what is standard or optional.

    On the charging Model S page, it states that "All Model S vehicles with the 85 kWh battery can use Superchargers as can properly equipped 60 kWh battery vehicles." What is a "properly equipped" 60 kWh Model S? Is a "properly equipped" Model S standard or not now?

    If I design my Model S and select the 40 kWh model, at the bottom it says that supercharging is not available. If I "upgrade" to the 60 kWh, it says supercharging is included. The wording does not change if I upgrade further to the 85 kWh version.

    Now the press release (as linked from above) says the hardware is optional for 60 kWh versions. I would like to assume that the press release is the most up to date and accurate, but there appear to be many inconsistencies now, and if your MVPA says it is included for the 60 kWh, then there is a real problem now.

    I don't want to get all fired up again, but here it seems is another situation in which people have signed an MVPA under one circumstance and are being informed that Tesla is changing the agreement.

    WTF!?
     

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