Supercharging Price - What if it is $2500?

[AustinPowers]

I'm baffled by the position of some that the Supercharger fee needs to pencil out as some sort of fuel cost. Lots of people add options to cars and pay extra for such things as colors, leather seats, performance package, and AutoPilot. Do those options really add as much utility to the car as the long distance trips that Supercharging enables? You don't really need most of the options if all you want is a functional car. Next to a larger battery (increased range) it is hard for me to imagine an option more useful than Supercharging access.

But if you are someone who doesn't need the car for long roadtrips anyway, how is SC access a useful option?

Plus, SC access is a different kind of option than colors, leather etc. It is like if traditional ICEs offered an optional flat fee for gas/diesel. It is an option that affects the running costs of the vehicle, thus the economy of it. That is why some of us calculate if a certain price for SC access is "worth it" to them over the lifetime of the car.

Other options as others have said don't affect the economy of the car but are just "gimmicks/luxuries" so to speak.
If you are someone who routinely goes on long roadtrips, getting SC access will be a no-brainer for sure, no matter if it is 1,500 or 2,500 USD/Euro/whatever.
But if you are not, then SC access will be an option as unnecessary as leather or a high-end sound system.

 

[AustinPowers]

As many new Tesla owners have found, your yearly miles go up when you buy a Tesla. We do over 25,000 per year now. It's just too much fun to drive.

Well, I know that driving a Tesla is fun, but I am sure my yearly miles won't go up much with a Model 3. Simple and sad reason, I won't have more time on hand, just because I have a Model 3. My wife and I both work full time Mo-to-Fr (the wife also on many weekends), and on the weekends there are things like the extracurricular activities of our two kids (birthdays, outings, training sessions, competitions, etc.), visiting grandparents and other relatives, plus getting all the housework, gardening and shopping done for which there is no time during the week.

Perhaps one day when the kids have left home and we are both in retirement, our yearly miles will go up significantly, but that will be at least a quarter of a century from now, and by then I guess BEV tech will have possibly outgrown the need for charging during roadtrips anyway.

 

[Shawn Snider]

@dgpcolorado,

^^^^This!!! Best reply to the OPs thread yet. Come on people. Are you here to purchase a car and "pencil in" return costs on excel spreadsheets to monetize over the life of your owning the M3 or "help 'invest' in the 'Tesla Idea and infrastructure' to help everybody in the Tesla Ownership Family'........I may not get my value back over the life of my M3 ownership but I WILL purchase the 'Lifetime Supercharging' for the above stated reason to help the Tesla infrastructure to better serve us all.

Ski

I agree with the Options comment, almost. Up here in Canada where the temperature drops below -25'C (lowest i've seen in recent years is like -34'C or something) in cold Winters. So the SubZero Package is an absolute MUST-HAVE, kinda sad that Canadian's have to pay $1,300 CDN just to have an option to allow the car to function in our environment :X Wish I lived in California where its always a perfect 20'C.

 

[Shawn Snider]

But if you are someone who doesn't need the car for long roadtrips anyway, how is SC access a useful option?

Plus, SC access is a different kind of option than colors, leather etc. It is like if traditional ICEs offered an optional flat fee for gas/diesel. It is an option that affects the running costs of the vehicle, thus the economy of it. That is why some of us calculate if a certain price for SC access is "worth it" to them over the lifetime of the car.

Other options as others have said don't affect the economy of the car but are just "gimmicks/luxuries" so to speak.
If you are someone who routinely goes on long roadtrips, getting SC access will be a no-brainer for sure, no matter if it is 1,500 or 2,500 USD/Euro/whatever.
But if you are not, then SC access will be an option as unnecessary as leather or a high-end sound system.

Also depends on where geographically you live, over in Europe it's a LOT denser, way more available 'plugins' aside from Tesla SC's, here in BC, Canada it's quite far inbetween cities/town's, so SC access for me is required.

 

[diamond.g]

I can only speak for myself, but I definitely wouldn't. I have recently experienced the current autopilot on a testdrive with an S P90DL and it sure is a nice gimmick, but for me it is nothing more - yet. Perhaps one day when all cars on the road have autopilot and car-to-X communication with each other, but not now. Problem is also that more than 95% of my driving is in or between small towns in the country, where the current autopilot is not recommended to be used anyway. And for driving on the Autobahn I am quite happy with standard ACC.

In order to get ACC I think you have to get the AP package. But I get your point. I just think if it as getting the drivers assistance package in other brands. Most charge at least $1000, with some even requiring a certain trim level to even get the option. Mercedes charges 2500 and you have to pay an extra 950 to get self parking. BMW makes you get the 328 before you can get the drivers assistance plus package and they want 2700.

 

[alseTrick]

That comes out to 1111 gallons of gas approx. or 50k miles.
I don't know about any of you but I won't be using it much.
Personally, I think 500.00 might be the correct amount. That's 10k miles of gas.
No, I don't think I'll ever get to charge up at sc stations for that number of miles in my life.
I have solar/wind and water power.
I probably won't be happy paying at the charger due to hacking.
I just might not get it at all.

Just my thoughts.

Nobody has pointed out this guy is trolling both TMC and the Tesla Forums?

Same day. Same post. Different site.

super charging for mdl 3
Submitted by dd.micsol on July 25, 2016

Will the 3 be 2500.00 for supercharging. That's what S is right now. Seems overpriced to me. That comes out to 1111 gallons of gas.
Or 50k miles worth of gas. Doesn't look like a bargain at all.

super charging for mdl 3 | Tesla Motors

Just another troll like that pdx eagle.

 

[MP3Mike]

And for driving on the Autobahn I am quite happy with standard ACC.

Just remember that in a Tesla you only get ACC/TACC when you purchase AP. (Otherwise you get just plain old dumb CC.)

 

[MiamiNole]

I've always looked at supercharging as a convenience option more so than just looking at the cost, cost/fuel savings, and recouping that cost. When combined with Autopilot, the convenience of being able to take road trips with the comfort of autopilot will most likely be well worth the price. Then, I take into consideration the trips that I would normally travel by plane to that I'd start driving for due to said convenience. That's money saved on airfare, baggage, airport parking, rental car, etc. Then, add on top of that the fact that I will also most likely be taking more road trips due to said convenience. More weekend trips to see my folks in South Florida, driving up to FSU games, more theme park trips, etc. All that alone will most likely be well worth the cost of the two options (AP plus SC).

If you add the fuel savings on top of all of that, the choice becomes a no-brainer for me.

 

[eisbock]

That's as maybe, but to many people buying a Model 3, a Supercharger will be seen like a gas station on long roadtrips. And like others have said, you don't pay for those upfront either. Plus, more people than one would think don't go on longer roadtrips all too often.

The cost of building a supercharger network comparable to the current gas station network is huge. Gas stations have had a hundred years to expand, Tesla has a tenth of that.

You need a large and expansive network if you wish to sell the public on the idea of electrical cars, so this rapid expansion is necessary. And expensive. If you want to use it, you're going to have to pay for the expansion one way or another, especially us early adopters.

Maybe in 50 years when there are finally enough superchargers to the point where expansion is no longer necessary, the price might come down and supercharging for life will be based on supercharging data Tesla has collected over the years and will be a much more reasonable price. Until then, you want to use the network now, you pay a premium.

All of this discussion about how it's so expensive is absolutely ridiculous. Tesla is losing an obscene amount of money to make this supercharger network a reality for you and what, you all expect to be able to use it for only the cost of electricity?

 

[TexasEV]

Paying for enabling supercharging is paying for the option which converts your car from local use only to being able to use it conveniently on long trips also. That isn't just a gas price calculation even for most EV owners who have a 2nd car which is an ICE. EV driving, and a Tesla driving specifically, is a lifestyle not just a cost savings. Until you do it you may not fully understand it.

If you buy the air suspension option, do you estimate how many times you would raise or lower the car and the price per use? What about the enhanced sound system? What's the cost per hour of listening to the better sound?

 

[ohmman]

I've always looked at supercharging as a convenience option more so than just looking at the cost, cost/fuel savings, and recouping that cost. When combined with Autopilot, the convenience of being able to take road trips with the comfort of autopilot will most likely be well worth the price. Then, I take into consideration the trips that I would normally travel by plane to that I'd start driving for due to said convenience. That's money saved on airfare, baggage, airport parking, rental car, etc. Then, add on top of that the fact that I will also most likely be taking more road trips due to said convenience. More weekend trips to see my folks in South Florida, driving up to FSU games, more theme park trips, etc. All that alone will most likely be well worth the cost of the two options (AP plus SC).

If you add the fuel savings on top of all of that, the choice becomes a no-brainer for me.

I stopped being a road trip kind of guy in college. My Model S changed all of that for me, and we've seen parts of the country we'd never have seen by air. Being forced to spend extended periods in the car is a bonding experience for our family - yes, we certainly grate on each other at times, but the net is clearly positive.

We've also eliminated a good number of air travel trips - four seats in the front of the plane have a heavy emissions/GHG cost when you compare to a single Tesla on the road. Keeping the actual ROI out of it, I'd say all of this adds up to well more than $2500 of value for our family.

 

[Winston Wolf]

We are not talking about the car though, are we? We are talking about the possible extra cost to be able to use the superchargers. And if (which at this point is pure speculation) said extra cost would be 2,500 USD/Euro/whatever would we buy that option or not.

As I said, I personally wouldn't because I would never use electricity for that amount of money at an SC. And as I don't intend to use my Model 3 for long roadtrips, I don't need the "added value/possible convenience of superchargers" in the first place. Sure, I appreciate that Tesla offers that convenience, but since I don't intend to use it, I don't want to pay for it either.

Right. However intentions can change. What you'll be purchasing is a car that's incapable of going longer distances, even in an emergency. Say you have to fly home for Thanksgiving and your flight is cancelled. The airlines can't get you there until Friday because everything is booked up. You have to drive. In your Tesla, you can't make it, so now you're in a spot where you're having to rent a car.

All I'm saying is that for those who would infrequently use the SC system, we all need to think hard about whether a Tesla is right for us. Because a Tesla w/o supercharger access does not have the same utility as an ICE car. IF I buy SC access, I'd do it up front, not 2-3 years later where my payback gets even worse since I'll probably only keep the car for 10 years.

 

[Winston Wolf]

When is buying a car ever an investment unless it appreciates like classic cars?

Which is why I put it in quotations. And we aren't talking about the car itself, we're talking about the cost of supercharging.

 

[Winston Wolf]

You guys bring up some good points relating Supercharging as an option that enables additional value to be unlocked, similar to other options. All I'm saying is that for those who find the option to be more than they would get back in return, we need to evaluate whether the Model 3 is still the right car for us. For me? Probably still a yes. As I've said, we'll likely still do all our long distance trips in our Minivan. Ultimately, I think the cost of SC will come down significantly from the $2500 for the Model S. Elon has already said that options like Dual Motor will not cost as much as they would on the S/X. I think you'll see all options come down in price comparably.

 

[littlecloudy]

You guys bring up some good points relating Supercharging as an option that enables additional value to be unlocked, similar to other options. All I'm saying is that for those who find the option to be more than they would get back in return, we need to evaluate whether the Model 3 is still the right car for us.

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense.

One of THE limitations to EV adoption is range, right? Tesla has to a certain extent solved that and with the expansion of the supercharger network it will get better and better. It needs to get to the point where you can go anywhere, just like with an ICE. If you can't, the whole thing - transitioning to sustainable energy and getting rid of fossil fuels - ultimately won't work.

Now, why would having this option detract from the Model 3? Let's say it is an additional option that you have to pay a very reasonable sum for. Don't want it, don't get it. Why would it make you not want to get the car? This makes no sense.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

If Tesla has a "per Supercharge" payment system for the Model 3, it will not involve getting out your charge card at a Supercharger location since those locations do not have the necessary hardware for that payment method. Tesla will have your payment information in their database in a server somewhere.

At this time no one outside of Tesla knows if the Model 3 will have a "one time" Supercharger option cost or not, and if they do offer that we don't know what it will cost.

Your post makes a lot of unfounded assumptions.

Exactly. The Superchargers are "dumb". They only read your Supercharging ability as a "yes" or "no" during that initial handshake. IF....HUGE IF...they go to a per-use model, it will be stored in the car's software, so that any SC you pull up to, the car will be able to say "yes" on initial handshake.

(again....we've flogged this equine in other threads, sooo....)

 

[JeffK]

Tesla is losing an obscene amount of money to make this supercharger network a reality

It's not actually terribly obscene. At $300,000 per station they'd only need to be able to sell 35 Model 3s (at only the base price) at a 25% gross margins (or 19 Model S cars at $66k) to pay for a supercharging location.

Theoretically, if they used 100% of profits from sales for just a single quarter on supercharging stations then they'd be able to double the size network (without simply adding more superchargers to existing stations). Unless my math is totally off.

 

[AustinPowers]

Just remember that in a Tesla you only get ACC/TACC when you purchase AP. (Otherwise you get just plain old dumb CC.)

I know that. I was speaking more in general terms meaning I would be quite happy with standard ACC, not needing AP at all yet.

 

[AustinPowers]

[...] Until then, you want to use the network now, you pay a premium.

All of this discussion about how it's so expensive is absolutely ridiculous. Tesla is losing an obscene amount of money to make this supercharger network a reality for you and what, you all expect to be able to use it for only the cost of electricity?

Actually, wrong. As I have no need for it, they are not building it for me, and I don't expect them to. It is nice of Tesla that they do it anyway. But mind you, they are not just doing it out of the good of their hearts. They do it because it gives them a massive advantage over the competition!

In the end, it will be a matter of price for me. If they want 500 [insert preferred currency], I will of course get it. If it's 2,500 or thereabouts, I will almost certainly skip the opportunity.

 

[FlatSix911]

Here is some antidotal evidence regarding the popular use of Superchargers ...

I stopped by Mt. View today and found they now have a concierge to help organize the queue ...12 SC stalls and 10 cars waiting mid day!