Supercharging rates go WAY up!

[SageBrush]

Folks shouldn’t lose sight of the big picture (home charging using my solar panels has a lifetime cost of only 2-3 cents per mile),

Indeed

 

[SageBrush]

This is an indication of how public charging economics suck

True for now due to demand charges (and set to get a lot worse with Supercharger 3.0.) I hope the situation will change as batteries are added.

 

[Gen3]

Tesla's statement is that they will use the price increase ( profits ) as a financial source to install additional SC's.

If that's not making a profit off of then.....

Sure....they aren't using the profits to build up their bank account, but a profit is a profit no matter what they are doing with the increased rate money.

Tesla invests about a million dollars for a Supercharger station. Yes less for a small one, but more for a big one. And now V3 will be here soon but we don’t know the costs for that, or retro fitting the stations.

How long should Tesla amortize that infrastructure cost to minimize their “profit” on the electricity they sell?

I’m fine with the price being higher. I wasn’t a fan of free supercharging and am glad they are charging the actual cost.

They should also charge you by time in the stall to discourage going from 90% to 100%, and increase idle fees.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Tesla invests about a million dollars for a Supercharger station. Yes less for a small one, but more for a big one. And now V3 will be here soon but we don’t know the costs for that, or retro fitting the stations.


They should also charge you by time in the stall to discourage going from 90% to 100%, and increase idle fees.

If they start charging people more....then people will use them less.....then Tesla would make less money.

I don't see how discouraging SC use through fees is profitable in any way.

Just imagine if EVERYONE stopped using SC's locally.....then Tesla would be done / finished with the SC install effort.
Outside of California in the US....the current infrastructure is sufficient for long distance.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Free charging is all over the place. Not at Tesla SC's but its everywhere.

Plugshare.

I never ever used or considered using any if those. My car has enough range for my around-town needs and Level 2 chargers are nowhere near fast enough to enable any reasonable travel. In any circumstance, I couldn’t afford to trade half a day for $10 worth of electricity, so all those chargers are of no interest to me.

I wonder how mainstream or fringe my opinion is.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I never ever used or considered using any if those. My car has enough range for my around-town needs and Level 2 chargers are nowhere near fast enough to enable any reasonable travel. In any circumstance, I couldn’t afford to trade half a day for $10 worth of electricity, so all those chargers are of no interest to me.

I wonder how mainstream or fringe my opinion is.

Half a day?

99% of them are designed to be used at a location where you will spend time anyway.

Libraries / Malls / Restaurants etc....

The new Volta's here in Chicago charge at a rate of 40 AMPS. That's not half a day charging. That's almost Tesla destination charging speed.

 

[SageBrush]

I never ever used or considered using any if those. My car has enough range for my around-town needs and Level 2 chargers are nowhere near fast enough to enable any reasonable travel. In any circumstance, I couldn’t afford to trade half a day for $10 worth of electricity, so all those chargers are of no interest to me.

I wonder how mainstream or fringe my opinion is.

I don't know, but we are at least two.
I looked up my Supercharger use since 6/2018 and found that ~ 1/10 of my miles are charged away from home. So 90% of my future miles are at 2.5 cents a mile from home and 1/10 are at 4.5 cents a mile. The weighted average works out to 2.7 cents a mile.

I'll live.

 

[LMichel]

Where is my math incorrect?
Let's say my nearest SC (NY State) charges $0.24/kWh.
My S75D would take an empty-to-full charge of 75 X .24 (assuming that my charge took an hour at a rate of 75kWh. Which it does when waiting for every last watt before charging stops on its own)
That's $18 and my MS is now good for ~250 miles. (More in the summer, less in the winter. My spreadsheet actually shows an annual average of 242, but lets keep the math easy)
Or, put differently, it's costing me $0.072 per mile. (18/250)
Compared to an ICE car that gets....say, 30MPG and my local gas station charging $2.09/Gallon (for 89 Octane)
That ICE car is paying $2.09 for 30 miles of travel
My MS is paying $2.16 for 30 miles of travel.

Um... ICE is now cheaper?!?
Of course I am not taking home charging or other charging infrastructure into account - simply Tesla's SC network exclusively. It would be even worse if I were trying to charge at a SC with the car cold-soaked. But I can never remember a time when this was the case. The battery is always warm (regardless of outside temp) when I approach a SC.

Combine that data with the fact that gasing up an ICE takes 5 minutes and I'm off... Tesla will take an hour and I also risk ridiculous idle fee penalties.

Where am I off here? It 'feels' like I should be...?
I'm thinking my next license plate might say GAS WINS

 

[TeeEmCee]

Half a day?

99% of them are designed to be used at a location where you will spend time anyway.

Libraries / Malls / Restaurants etc....

The new Volta's here in Chicago charge at a rate of 40 AMPS. That's not half a day charging. That's almost Tesla destination charging speed.

Exactly, but none of those are “need to charge” situations for a Model 3 (at least not with my use case). Sure, if the chargers are there, someone will use them, but they’re not exactly a must have with a LR Tesla. Superchargers, on the other hand, are, lest the car be nothing but a local shuttle.

 

[SageBrush]

Of course I am not taking home charging or other charging infrastructure into account - simply Tesla's SC network exclusively.

That is where you are off.
You might also ask yourself if current liquid fuel prices are a future certainty.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Where is my math incorrect?
Let's say my nearest SC (NY State) charges $0.24/kWh.
My S75D would take an empty-to-full charge of 75 X .24 (assuming that my charge took an hour at a rate of 75kWh. Which it does when waiting for every last watt before charging stops on its own)
That's $18 and my MS is now good for ~250 miles. (More in the summer, less in the winter. My spreadsheet actually shows an annual average of 242, but lets keep the math easy)
Or, put differently, it's costing me $0.072 per mile. (18/250)
Compared to an ICE car that gets....say, 30MPG and my local gas station charging $2.09/Gallon (for 89 Octane)
That ICE car is paying $2.09 for 30 miles of travel
My MS is paying $2.16 for 30 miles of travel.

Um... ICE is now cheaper?!?
Of course I am not taking home charging or other charging infrastructure into account - simply Tesla's SC network exclusively. It would be even worse if I were trying to charge at a SC with the car cold-soaked. But I can never remember a time when this was the case. The battery is always warm (regardless of outside temp) when I approach a SC.

Combine that data with the fact that gasing up an ICE takes 5 minutes and I'm off... Tesla will take an hour and I also risk ridiculous idle fee penalties.

Where am I off here? It 'feels' like I should be...?
I'm thinking my next license plate might say GAS WINS

Indeed, that’s not exactly how this was advertised.

For my last TX -> CA drive, I ran the numbers and just took the Diesel rather than the Tesla. More comfortable and a better cruiser in every single way and now cheaper to drive as well (aside from having saved about 30 SC charging hours along the way).

 

[TeeEmCee]

That is where you are off.
You might also ask yourself if current liquid fuel prices are a future certainty.

You’re asking that as if electricity prices were exempt from the same type of fluctuations

 

[Garlan Garner]

Exactly, but none of those are “need to charge” situations for a Model 3 (at least not with my use case). Sure, if the chargers are there, someone will use them, but they’re not exactly a must have with a LR Tesla. Superchargers, on the other hand, are, lest the car be nothing but a local shuttle.

I'm just saying...

Concerning Tesla. If someone wants to pay for local SC'ing as opposed to using a 3rd party local charger....then they should be happy because they are making some profit.
They make NO profit on someone using a 3rd parties free charger.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Indeed, that’s not exactly how this was advertised.

For my last TX -> CA drive, I ran the numbers and just took the Diesel rather than the Tesla. More comfortable and a better cruiser in every single way and now cheaper to drive as well (aside from having saved about 30 SC charging hours along the way).

Well.. there ya go...

Now what folks?

Is it really now cheaper to run diesel than electric? That's a huge factor IMHO.

Good luck Tesla concerning the Semi.

 

[Eno Deb]

Um... ICE is now cheaper?!?
Of course I am not taking home charging or other charging infrastructure into account - simply Tesla's SC network exclusively. It would be even worse if I were trying to charge at a SC with the car cold-soaked. But I can never remember a time when this was the case. The battery is always warm (regardless of outside temp) when I approach a SC.

Combine that data with the fact that gasing up an ICE takes 5 minutes and I'm off... Tesla will take an hour and I also risk ridiculous idle fee penalties.

Where am I off here? It 'feels' like I should be...?
I'm thinking my next license plate might say GAS WINS

I agree. IMO Tesla is treading on thin ice here. They are still actively advertising "gasoline savings", which have basically completely vanished if you don't have cheap charging at home. I feel sorry for people who can't charge at home or at work and rely on Tesla's network (and no, I don't think it's just for long distance travel given all the urban charging locations that Tesla has built). Most people still have doubts about the viability of EVs (hence the single-digit market share) and this will do nothing to overcome these doubts.

It is also a bit of a rude awakening to the fact that Tesla's proprietary charging system has created a captive market, just at the time when industry standard networks are beginning to become usable (Electrify America etc.). They can basically price as they want and there is nothing the consumer can do. I'm wondering if we'll ever see a CCS adapter ...

 

[TeeEmCee]

I'm just saying...

Concerning Tesla. If someone wants to pay for local SC'ing as opposed to using a 3rd party local charger....then they should be happy because they are making some profit.
They make NO profit on someone using a 3rd parties free charger.

Now that you mentioned that, how about differentiated pricing by location?

If I spent a whole day running errands and needed a quick juice, I would not mind paying a higher price for supercharging as I would see that as paying for convenience (despite it now costing exactly 3 x more than my home charging). If nonetheless I’m expected to travel and spend one full hour charging in fine places like Childress TX, while paying more than it would cost me to fuel up the big car (which can do Dallas to Santa Fe on one tank), the polite answer to that scenario would be “eff that!”.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I agree. IMO Tesla is treading on thin ice here. They are still actively advertising "gasoline savings", which have basically completely vanished if you don't have cheap charging at home. I feel sorry for people who can't charge at home or at work and rely on Tesla's network (and no, I don't think it's just for long distance travel given all the urban charging locations that Tesla has built). Most people still have doubts about the viability of EVs (hence the single-digit market share) and this will do nothing to overcome these doubts.

It is also a bit of a rude awakening to the fact that Tesla's proprietary charging system has created a captive market, just at the time when industry standard networks are beginning to become usable (Electrify America etc.). They can basically price as they want and there is nothing the consumer can do. I'm wondering if we'll ever see a CCS adapter ...

I agree 100%.

I feel sorry for those who purchased a Tesla that live in either an apartment complex or something like that - with no local charging - who rely exclusively on Tesla SC pricing as their primary source.

I would suppose there are a fair number of people in this scenario.

Oh boy...

 

[MARKM3]

I'm sorry, but .31c per kw is outrageous. That is a 300% profit in some states. My Chrysler 200 is now cheaper to drive than my Tesla by 10%. Tesla is really screwing up lately. Having to wait 30+minutes to charge is very inconvenient, and now they are charging way too much for supercharging?

I'm sorry, but Tesla is shooting itself in the foot. No longer is there a gas savings when comparing models. ESPECIALLY if you drive a model s or x. That would come out to costing you $28 to go 280 miles in an X in SUMMER weather... SMDH.

TESLA what the CRAP are you DOING

 

[Garlan Garner]

I'm sorry, but .31c per kw is outrageous. That is a 300% profit in some states. My Chrysler 200 is now cheaper to drive than my Tesla by 10%. Tesla is really screwing up lately. Having to wait 30+minutes to charge is very inconvenient, and now they are charging way too much for supercharging?

I'm sorry, but Tesla is shooting itself in the foot. No longer is there a gas savings when comparing models. ESPECIALLY if you drive a model s or x. That would come out to costing you $28 to go 280 miles in an X in SUMMER weather... SMDH.

TESLA what the CRAP are you DOING

well...well... Nicely put.

 

[agarabaghi]

how do find rthe current rate of the sc in our area?