Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Supercharging to be uncoupled for new owners - lowering price of S/X

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
The capital/infrastructure costs of building out the supercharger network are insignificant in comparison to the gigafactory and fremont, and the gigafactory and fremont will be paid down with incremental future revenue. Why can't Tesla do the same with the supercharger network?

Why can't they indeed? As you know, they have failed to meet plan for new SC in 2016. That wasn't an accident, it was necessary to conserve cash to keep up appearances for the capital markets.

Are you seriously suggesting they can build out a network of nationwide superchargers every 100-150 miles (across Texas, etc.) for $5 per use?
 
That's not necessarily a good thing for TMC, right? The goal of a business is not to align revenue with value -- it is to have revenue exceed value by as much as possible. This unbundling seems likely to reduce the revenue TMC generates from the existing value.

When I say "better align revenue to value", I don't mean making them equal. That would obviously not be a good thing for Tesla (although it may well be a better situation than exists today!). Instead, what I mean is accrue more revenue from customers that routinely use the superchargers versus those that do not.

There are reports that Tesla will lower the base price of the S as a result of the unbundling. This will certainly make the car more appealing to consumers that would infrequently supercharge, thereby allowing Tesla to sell more cars. Selling more cars is certainly good for Tesla.
 
Why can't they indeed? As you know, they have failed to meet plan for new SC in 2016. That wasn't an accident, it was necessary to conserve cash to keep up appearances for the capital markets.

Are you seriously suggesting they can build out a network of nationwide superchargers every 100-150 miles (across Texas, etc.) for $5 per use?

Of course not - $5 per use wouldn't even cover the cost of electricity!
 
  • Like
Reactions: GSP
I estimate it will cost: the company's primary advantage in the market, and ultimately its future.

How do you figure? They remove the lifetime Supercharging from the car, lower the price by $2,000, and then make lifetime Supercharging a $2,000 option. So for the person that wants lifetime Supercharging the cost is exactly the same. For the person that doesn't need Supercharging, or only needs it occasionally, they save $2,000 on the car and use some kind of pay as you go plan when they need to Supercharge.

Sounds like win-win to me. More people can buy a Tesla, and people have been asking for this for a long time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lklundin and msnow
How do you figure? They remove the lifetime Supercharging from the car, lower the price by $2,000, and then make lifetime Supercharging a $2,000 option. So for the person that wants lifetime Supercharging the cost is exactly the same. For the person that doesn't need Supercharging, or only needs it occasionally, they save $2,000 on the car and use some kind of pay as you go plan when they need to Supercharge.

Sounds like win-win to me. More people can buy a Tesla, and people have been asking for this for a long time.
Its a win - win in my book. I'm going to buy it, however this way...not everyone is forced to.
 
How do you figure? They remove the lifetime Supercharging from the car, lower the price by $2,000, and then make lifetime Supercharging a $2,000 option. So for the person that wants lifetime Supercharging the cost is exactly the same. For the person that doesn't need Supercharging, or only needs it occasionally, they save $2,000 on the car and use some kind of pay as you go plan when they need to Supercharge.

Sounds like win-win to me. More people can buy a Tesla, and people have been asking for this for a long time.

Forgive me, but many of you writing on this thread sound new to Tesla and the Model S. I have had my 85D for 18 months. When I ordered mine, like all ordered at that time, it came without SpC. It was, I believe, $2,000 extra to have it "enabled," with lifetime use of the SpCs (which I did). My point is that they did this before, not so long ago, they know how it works. The moved to a different model of sales by having it be a part of all the Model Ss. Tesla's reasons for going to "all have it" and going back to "it is an option" are theirs to make, for their own reasons. And they know how it works to have some cars able to use the SpCs (like mine) and some that don't (the ones not enabled) because that currently exists. Or maybe I am missing the point. My 2 cents.
 
As someone that could afford whatever... I don't want to afford or pay for things I don't value.

I was specing out a lightly equipped 60d before the p90d sale... And would have been happy (and not bought) for the option of unlimited SC.

The 60 cars, I feel, are marketed as mostly city cars, so they will sell more at 2k lower... Look how many people placed deposits when the 1200 delivery fee was waived.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gears
I estimate it will cost: the company's primary advantage in the market, and ultimately its future. But we gotta bail out cousin's solar Ponzi scheme, amiright??!

Doesn't it get a little tiring predicting the downfall of Tesla and the solar industry? I'm sorry to tell you this, but Tesla is here to stay and coal is a thing of the past. Period - end of sentence. There's going to be rough patches for both Tesla and solar companies, but something tells me you still don't travel by horse and buggy. It's better to embrace the future than complain about it. Plus, the ride to the future is so much more fun in a Tesla powered by solar, hydro, wind, or even coal, than an ICE powered by OPEC.
 
I have a feeling that the new lifetime plan is going to:
  1. Cost more than before (My guess is $3000)
  2. Be limited to a single owner
I don't have any data to back that up, it's just an inkling.

If Electrek's source is correct then the phrase "ensuring that the value of the Supercharger network is better represented by the pricing model" sure sounds like management-speak for a price increase to me.
 
Downfall of tesla and the solar industry?!? That's totally the wrong conclusion about my perspective. EV and PV are here to stay and in 5 years you won't be able to give an ICE car away. I'm already dreading the phase where we get to pay a rider on our electric bill for the demolition of their coal powered plants (much like we get to pay for them not to use the nuke plants they built 30 years ago).

My opinions are based on a concern that Elon Musk is putting what the engineers from Tesla have created in long term jeopardy for personal interest (financial or ego). Solarcity is a straight up scam business model...bad for customers, worse for investors. Now everyone knows that, and in a final desperate move, Musk is willing to gamble Tesla in an effort to mask that.

Here is the short version from where I'm sitting:
Tesla has 2.5-3B$ cash, basically enough to get gigafactory and model 3 to production
Capital markets are potentially closing based on lack of results
Suddenly they want to use the cash to help with Solarcity burn rate
Need more cash
Need to meet delivery numbers at all costs to go back to the capital markets
Willing to make short term decisions like selling 75kWh cars for 60kWh price and delete SC charges

At present, Tesla is adding risk to an already challenging plan.


BTW
If Solarcity disappeared tomorrow solar future wouldn't suffer, it would be better off. Their business model is deceptive and apparently extremely unprofitable. Do you think PV's future dominance will be any less certain without them?
 
  • Like
Reactions: X Fan and Eclectic
Do you all think that there will still be a lifetime plan? With lifetime plans congestion caused by locals need to addressed as more and more Teslas are sold. There could be an algorithm deciding when you supercharge locally but it can never be perfect and people get mad. Easiest solution is not to offer lifetime plan any more.

If it will be offered I also think it will be around $3000 and limited to long distance travel by algorithm. It could also be for the life of the battery instead of life of the car.
 
Today, the SC network is a 'cost center'.

I have to agree with this statement. Many people don't realize that the cost of superchargers to Tesla is more than $2500/car. Let me show you a detailed calculation:

1. Supercharger hardware:
According to this source, in May 2015 Tesla said each station costs $270,000. At the end of May 2015, there were 2870 stalls in 479 stations. That's an average of 5.99 stalls per station. Therefore, cost per stall was 270,000/5,99= $45,063. The reason I'm calculating stalls is because today's stations have more stalls. Therefore cost per stall will be more accurate.

At the end of Q2 2016, worldwide, Tesla had 4009 supercharge stalls and 136,652 deliveries. Some S60's and S40's don't have supercharging. So let's assume 132,652. That means 4009/132,652= 0.0302 stalls per vehicle. In other words, the cost of supercharger hardware is 0.0302*$45,063= $1,362/car

2. Vehicle hardware:
I have no idea about this. Let's say $200/car.

3. Electricity:
66% of all Teslas were sold in the USA. So I will use USA prices. The average price is $0.12/kWh.

Assuming each supercharge session is from 25% to 90%, that's 65%. Assuming average battery is 85 kWh, that would be 0.65*85= 55.25 kWh, which would cost 55.25*0.12= $6.63 per session.

According to this survey with 243 owners, on average Tesla drivers supercharge 27.1 times/year. So that's 27.1*$6.63= $179.67 per year. For the lifetime of the car, let's say for 12 years, that would be 12*$179.67= $2,156/car

Total cost of supercharging = $1362 (for supercharger hardware) + $200 (for vehicle hardware) + $2,156 (for electricity)
= $3,718/car
 
Last edited: