Supercharging to be uncoupled for new owners - lowering price of S/X

[S'toon]

...loose money.

Full article at:
10 Words You Need to Stop Misspelling - The Oatmeal

 

[Canuck]

What I'm saying is that I think that we're going to see a change. Based on the leak, we know there could be a thing called an "idle charge". How will they charge that if you don't have an account? Do lifetime Supercharger owners somehow get a pass on it? Maybe they do, but I doubt it. I think they'll make all of us have an account to pay for potential idling. By the fact that they require an account, it means they can track ownership very easily.

To facilitate this, 8.0 might have the functionality to check if a VIN has an account associated with it. Supercharging wouldn't proceed unless it did.

I want to reiterate that this is pure speculation, and none of it might be true, or some, or all. But probably none. I'm just trying to show how it could be "easily" done.

Good point on the idle charge. Okay, I'm convinced.

 

[RogerHScott]

I mentioned in another thread awhile back: Supercharging access isn't about fuel cost, it is about the greatly enhanced utility of the car in that it can take long road trips, unlike other EVs. That's a paradigm shift in EV utility and it has a value over and above the simple cost of the option or the cost per kWh.

This is what I call a "therapist's eye view" of the world. The universal gold standard for private transportation is the ICE vehicle.
It is the only relevant standard of comparison. It is pointless to talk about a "less inconvenient" EV. If it is less convenient than an ICE,
it loses. Period. If any aspect of driving an EV is demonstrably more expensive per mile than operating an ICE vehicle the anti-EV
forces will have a field day.

 

[RogerHScott]

When I look at paid chargers (L2 and even Chademo), a lot of them work out to be $0.50+ per kwh, so this marketing perception issue already exists.

Use of such chargers is at most a minor footnote in the great How and Where to Charge Your Tesla story. That story is really about
home charging and SpCs.

 

[henderrj]

What would be, I wonder, the profit margin on a replacement battery pack? If greater than that of a new vehicle then lifetime SC access may create a new profit center for Tesla starting in about 7 years, would it not? And, as a bonus to early adopters and the CPO department, would keep the value of the older, SC for life, cars up. Thoughts?

 

[whitex]

Use of such chargers is at most a minor footnote in the great How and Where to Charge Your Tesla story. That story is really about home charging and SpCs.

Ok, you made me think how and where I charge my Tesla. In the more than 3 years of driving a Model S I charged at the SC twice, and at L2 chargers about 10 times. Out of those 10, 3 or 4 I paid approximately $0.50 per KWh (and one had to walk about 20mins in the rain too as the charger at the hotel I was staying was not available and I had to find another one). The rest of my charging happened daily at home, for at about $0.10 per KWh.

Bottom line is this. If Tesla charges same rates as charging at home, almost everyone who can do math would never pay $2,000 for lifetime option. At $0.10, that's 20MWHr, or roughly 60,000 rated miles. For those who take a loan or lease, add to that interest on $2000, so the break even is at 61,000 SC miles or so? Now, if you charge at SC 10% of the time (which is more than me, but some do), you'll break even when the car reaches 610,000 miles. If you can afford a Tesla today, you're not keeping the car passed 610,000 miles, unless it is for sentimental reasons.

 

[Canuck]

Bottom line is this. If Tesla charges same rates as charging at home, almost everyone who can do math would never pay $2,000 for lifetime option. At $0.10, that's 20MWHr, or roughly 60,000 rated miles. For those who take a loan or lease, add to that interest on $2000, so the break even is at 61,000 SC miles or so? Now, if you charge at SC 10% of the time (which is more than me, but some do), you'll break even when the car reaches 610,000 miles. If you can afford a Tesla today, you're not keeping the car passed 610,000 miles, unless it is for sentimental reasons.

You've completely missed the point, probably because of this:

In the more than 3 years of driving a Model S I charged at the SC twice,

I charged twice at superchargers in the first week of owning my car, and almost every weekend since, as I travel a lot in my car (mostly to/from my cabin on weekends), and that's what superchargers are for. Superchargers are not to take place of home charging, or the cost of home charging!

I could drive to Florida from BC tomorrow for free! Well, I paid for it in the cost of my car, and I would have to buy food on the way. My family of 5 can go from BC to Las Vegas, Disneyland, the Grand Canyon, etc. -- all for free!* This is the where the attraction to superchargers lies -- free long distance travel. If you stay at home a lot, and don't travel by vehicle, then certainly it's not for you.

(*For long distance travel only - and technically not free since it was paid for with price of the vehicle. Food/beverages excluded.)

 

[whitex]

You've completely missed the point, probably because of this:



I charged twice at superchargers in the first week of owning my car, and almost every weekend since, as I travel a lot in my car (mostly to/from my cabin on weekends), and that's what superchargers are for. Superchargers are not to take place of home charging, or the cost of home charging!

I could drive to Florida from BC tomorrow for free! Well, I paid for it in the cost of my car, and I would have to buy food on the way. My family of 5 can go from BC to Las Vegas, Disneyland, the Grand Canyon, etc. -- all for free!* This is the where the attraction to superchargers lies -- free long distance travel. If you stay at home a lot, and don't travel by vehicle, then certainly it's not for you.

(*For long distance travel only - and technically not free since it was paid for with price of the vehicle. Food/beverages excluded.)

Ok, what percentage of your mileage do you use SC for? Say you are one of few people who uses SC for 50% of their driving, then your break even at $0.1/KWh is 122,000 miles. Are you really planning to own this car past 200,000 km?

 

[David_Cary]

You can do napkin calc at $.10 a kwh but that is a huge assumption. $.30 is closer to my prediction. Sure more than gas for a Prius but not a similar car.

And the uptake at $2000 should be pretty low. I wouldn't have done it. But I think I am a less than average SCer. Probably 5% of miles.

But - that $2000 should have a decent bump at resale - especially if the alternative is $2500. I leased so that wasn't a big issue - and given the depreciation on options, $2000 would never be worth it on a lease

 

[WannabeOwner]

active for 10 years but even that would piss me off if I planned to own my car more than 10 years.

If there would be demand for it I guess Tesla could offer some variations e.g.:

10 years $2,000

5 years $1,250
15 years $3,500

Doing something on the supercharger side would solve problems a loss of internet might cause.

Here in UK Ecotricity have pay-for chargers (Chademo and L2 [I think]). You need an APP to use them, and in some places mobile signal is poor so they are adding a WiFi hotspot to the charger (restricted to their APP ). If the internet connection to the "pump" is down, then the pump becomes free-to-use. Seems like a reasonable solution to me ...

... over here Ecotricity change GBP 6 / US$ 8 for 30 minutes (I think max power is 42kW)

 

[bob_p]

Model S and X cars are sold with free long distance travel.

We've reserved a Model 3 - which will be my wife's "commuter" car. We'll continue to use our Model S for road trips. I could see us saving $2K on the Model 3 and not ordering supercharger support (or at least buying a very small number of credits).

The Model S and X are sold with "free long distance travel" - and have the supercharger costs embedded in the car purchase cost today (in the early days, it was an added cost option). For Model S and X owners that are using the superchargers frequently for local driving (instead of having an overnight charger), it's possible Tesla will also ask them to purchase credits.

 

[Footer]

However they do it, they need to charge per kwh, not a lump sump cost. Then I won't be quite so annoyed when I'm Ubered.

 

[Az_Rael]

First, are you serious? So when you buy a CPO it's the proverbial "cat in a bag"?

Yeah, it stinks. Tesla does list some options that are on the car, but not all. Things folks may want like power folding mirrors or parking sensors are a bit of a gamble. That's why Hank set up that great service EV-CPO so those of us shopping can get a better guess at what we might be buying.

I do think they will strip the lifetime supercharging from all the CPOs for sale when this comes out. Why not - it is more money in their pockets.

 

[brkaus]

Yeah, it stinks. Tesla does list some options that are on the car, but not all. Things folks may want like power folding mirrors or parking sensors are a bit of a gamble. That's why Hank set up that great service EV-CPO so those of us shopping can get a better guess at what we might be buying.

I do think they will strip the lifetime supercharging from all the CPOs for sale when this comes out. Why not - it is more money in their pockets.

If they strip lifetime supercharging as part of CPO they will be able to sell the cars for less.

 

[ohmman]

I do think they will strip the lifetime supercharging from all the CPOs for sale when this comes out. Why not - it is more money in their pockets.

My guess as well, but I see it more being in line with a new "lifetime per owner" policy. The one that I'm probably wrong about.

 

[RogerHScott]

Ok, you made me think how and where I charge my Tesla. In the more than 3 years of driving a Model S I charged at the SC twice, and at L2 chargers about 10 times. Out of those 10, 3 or 4 I paid approximately $0.50 per KWh (and one had to walk about 20mins in the rain too as the charger at the hotel I was staying was not available and I had to find another one). The rest of my charging happened daily at home, for at about $0.10 per KWh.

Note I was talking about the story, not the reality. I'm talking about Tesla's image and marketing, not the actual experience of owners.
Do you contest that the "party line" from Tesla strongly emphasizes home charging and SpCs?

Note also that I'm not saying the PPU cost of SpCs has to be equal to home charging -- just that it can't exceed the cost of the same trip
in an ICE vehicle.

 

[Panu]

My guess as well, but I see it more being in line with a new "lifetime per owner" policy. The one that I'm probably wrong about.

I agree you will be wrong about that. It does not make any sense. Cars are often sold after e.g. 6 months of ownership and losing a paid supercharger access at that point is not fair.

I've always said they will charge new supercharger fee when you buy a new battery (embedded in the price of new battery of course). Current battery prices with the fact that you have to give them your current battery almost for free support this.

 

[ohmman]

Cars are often sold after e.g. 6 months of ownership and losing a paid supercharger access at that point is not fair.

Not fair to whom? If it's the global policy, resale values shouldn't be affected (since comparable cars have the same rule set). If a buyer paid for supercharger access outright and knew the policy, then their expectation was that they'd own the car more than 6 months. That's a buyer issue, not a fairness issue.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I'd gladly waive my "supercharging for life" if Tesla would give me a pro-rated refund. I don't road trip much and would rather buy credits on those rare times that I do.

 

[Panu]

Not fair to whom? If it's the global policy, resale values shouldn't be affected (since comparable cars have the same rule set). If a buyer paid for supercharger access outright and knew the policy, then their expectation was that they'd own the car more than 6 months. That's a buyer issue, not a fairness issue.

To say it in other words if Tesla does this it will charge many times for the same thing - a good reason to dislike Tesla.