Supercharging to reduce ownership cost of a Model S.

[roblab]

I'd like to toss one more thing into this equation.

Where I live, many of the warehouses and public buildings have solar panels on the roof. They don't do it because they like blue. The do it because it pays back, usually in 6 to 10 years. But it's not just businesses that can look ahead and save money for the long run.

You know they make panels that have inverters on them so they can be plugged into any nearby circuit. Start with one. Add one a year, or two, and quit paying 30 to 40 cents per kWh part of the time. In a few years, you might never pay for electricity again, ever.

Now, I don't know what you pay, but I know what I paid, and I don't pay it anymore. Planning for the future is maybe not as fun, like when I kept going to school while some of my friends got the job and the hot car. I went to the reunion a couple years ago, and I am not jealous.

Another thing I'd like to suggest is that you educate yourself on how to do some of the install of a 14-50 outlet. It is Not Rocket Science. Get your favorite electrician to check it out and sign it off. In some places, the county allows you to do little jobbies like this without a permit, even. I did my own install (I've done some work before) and it cost me about $45.

As was mentioned above, since you are intelligent, check into EV rates, night rates, off peak rates. Don't just go for the in your face solution, because there is a better way. And since I have solar, I get the solar rate, right?

Many keep thinking they can use those "free" chargers (backed by, guess what! Solar, just like you could do) and can't see the huge savings of putting an outlet in the garage. And, by the way UMCs are made to plug and unplug. In 2 1/2 years, mine works fine. I only have one.

My one cent worth.

 

[dsm363]

Charging at home is, in my opinion, one of the best things about owning an EV. It's always ready to go when I wake up in the morning, with virtually no effort on my part. If you can install a 14-50 outlet at home, I think it's totally worth it.

Exactly. Not having a 14-50 at home makes things much more difficult. No need for dual chargers or HPWC for most.

To OP: since Supercharger is on your way to work you could still stop by there once a week or so but you'll still want 240V charging of some kind at one. Going to Supercharger every day to save $2 would get old quickly.

 

[kuttakamina]

The convenience and peace of mind and comfort of being able to fill your tank in your garage, is part of the the Tesla ownership experience.
Plus a full tank on Tesla will cost $2 maybe? Are you really willing to spend 30 mins of your day to save $2?
I'd rather be home, 30 mins early.

 

[bhzmark]

Time=money. Wasting time = wasting money. Charge at home or work and find a better use of your time.

 

[EugeneM]

I know of one person who is considering a Model S now for the sole reason that a Supercharger opened near their home. The reason? They live in a high rise condo and the condo board will not allow them to install charging infrastructure in the basement parking. This is a big problem for condo owners in areas without by-laws requiring them to allow charging.

I say go for it. I'd rather see wider adoption of MS and EVs in general which would just lead to more supercharger locations IMO.

 

[AudubonB]

I have first-hand knowledge of this situation, and show my results, as follows:

When we're in our winter home in AZ, there is a SpC in our downtown (and we own the only Model S or Roadster there).

I often go downtown just to park it there, and charge.

It is the most expensive fuel around!....'cuz I always then have to patronize a downtown merchant, like one of its cafes, to pass the time; an activity I otherwise would not be doing.

So why do I do it? To snag passing Tesla owners coming in for a "travel" charge, and swap Tesla stories.

But I sure don't do it to save money!

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

I'd like to toss one more thing into this equation.

Where I live, many of the warehouses and public buildings have solar panels on the roof. They don't do it because they like blue. The do it because it pays back, usually in 6 to 10 years. But it's not just businesses that can look ahead and save money for the long run.

You know they make panels that have inverters on them so they can be plugged into any nearby circuit. Start with one. Add one a year, or two, and quit paying 30 to 40 cents per kWh part of the time. In a few years, you might never pay for electricity again, ever.

Now, I don't know what you pay, but I know what I paid, and I don't pay it anymore. Planning for the future is maybe not as fun, like when I kept going to school while some of my friends got the job and the hot car. I went to the reunion a couple years ago, and I am not jealous.

Another thing I'd like to suggest is that you educate yourself on how to do some of the install of a 14-50 outlet. It is Not Rocket Science. Get your favorite electrician to check it out and sign it off. In some places, the county allows you to do little jobbies like this without a permit, even. I did my own install (I've done some work before) and it cost me about $45.

As was mentioned above, since you are intelligent, check into EV rates, night rates, off peak rates. Don't just go for the in your face solution, because there is a better way. And since I have solar, I get the solar rate, right?

Many keep thinking they can use those "free" chargers (backed by, guess what! Solar, just like you could do) and can't see the huge savings of putting an outlet in the garage. And, by the way UMCs are made to plug and unplug. In 2 1/2 years, mine works fine. I only have one.

My one cent worth.

Well typically this is true, not everyone who have the cash to purchase the car will have enough left to get the solar. If that must be the case, i.e. get solar and car, then I think some of us here will be out of the running. The car isn't cheap. Getting enough solar to cover your driving electricity cost isn't cheap. Yes I know most will say, getting solar is the only safe investment because over the 25 years or so the system is warrantied for, you will generate more than what it is costing you now to get electricity. But like I said, for most it will be solar OR car, not both at the same time. It might work if you plan to get solar down the road once you paid off the car.

I barely charge at home. Maybe 5%. The rest is on free juice from where I park for work or on superchargers. 70k miles and sitting pretty. Between that and reduced toll rates I've probably saved almost $16-17k by now.

Glad to here the other side of the argument. It seems like most response here are monotonic. I think the best response are the one saying do what is best for you now. Down the road if it gets worst, change your behavior to adjust to the changing environment.

Let's look at a five-year summary: 2 1/2 hours of charging per week that includes the detour to and from the Supercharger. One hundred kilowatt-hours received each week. Assume fifty weeks per year.

625 hours spent charging 25,000 kWh on Tesla's nickel. Or, 1 hour total spent plugging and unplugging your car each night at home. Installation cost of $1,000 plus electricity purchased (25,000 kWh @ $.22) = $5,500 for a total outlay of $6,500. That equates to an hourly rate of $10.40, less if you can opt for the nighttime TOU rate.

Time is the one thing in our lives that escapes and can never be reclaimed. If you have a family, close friends, or hobbies and interests that you pursue, I think that you are short-changing them all for ten bucks an hour!

Occasional use to augment home charging is great. Occasional use to have a full battery for a weekend getaway is great.

I would change the math a bit. It's 15-30 minutes every other day. So we are closer to 1.5 hours per week. 52 weeks in a year. 78 hours total a year.

For those wondering...
There are 8766 hours in a year. So my charging time percentage is: 78/8766 = 0.008898 or 0.8898% of the time at ONE supercharging stall at odds hours. Meaning I will be at the supercharging station less than 1% of the time per year! I highly doubt I will affect the busyness of the supercharging station especially when they will be putting 12 stalls at the San Diego Station.

Assuming I am on the lower end of charge each time I start the charge, I should be pulling 100KW charge rate if I am getting the S85D. We are looking at 7800KWh per year. Lets keep the math easy and ignore those pesky road trips charging. 7800KWh/0.9 for charge inefficiency (90% efficiency is optimistic. Some are saying they are closer to 0.8 due to heating and cooling) if I charge at home. So 8667KWh if I charge at home or $1,906 per year at 0.22 per KWh. $1906/78hours = $24.4/hour. Lets make the numbers more accurate by saying I will have to take a detour which will cost me 10 minutes (not really in my case because it's on the way there) each time. 3.5 times a week = 35 minutes a week extra. Again 52 weeks in a year, or extra 30.3 hours a year. 78+30 = 108 hours a year. REVISED:
$1906/108 hours = $17.65/hour

Again not saying this is worth it, but just pointing it out. Tesla would probably not care about one guy doing this, but if everyone does it, I am sure it will affect the stations.

 

[Rama]

I don't have a problem with the ethics of your proposal. You paid good money for a Model S and you are entitled to all of its features on your terms. With that being said I agree that you are better off charging 120 at home and supercharge to "top off" when needed. I currently have a 40 mile commute and I get on fine with a 120v. We plug the Leaf into the 240v

 

[davewill]

... Tesla would probably not care about one guy doing this, but if everyone does it, I am sure it will affect the stations.

I would think that's your answer right there. However, I'll give my two cents. It sounds cheap and petty, and it's driven by an attitude that's behind too many things that are wrong with our society. The way I see it, if someone has a need, fine use it, but if you're just trying to save a few pennies 'cause you can...well personal pride would keep me from doing it.

But you wouldn't be breaking any rules or anything, so do what suits you. It's not our business, anyway, and if you hadn't asked for opinions, I wouldn't have said a word.

 

[mknox]

I currently have a 40 mile commute and I get on fine with a 120v.

Probably true in sunny California. In the northern US and Canada, 120 volts is all but useless in the winter. The heater needed to warm the pack will consume more than a 120 volt outlet can deliver on its own. (Just pointing this out as a general comment as I realize the OP is in California too).

 

[markb1]

The convenience and peace of mind and comfort of being able to fill your tank in your garage, is part of the the Tesla ownership experience.
Plus a full tank on Tesla will cost $2 maybe? Are you really willing to spend 30 mins of your day to save $2?
I'd rather be home, 30 mins early.

I agree except for your $2 figure. I guess it depends on a lot of factors, but at $0.18/kWh for the nighttime EV-TOU2 rate here in San Diego, half a charge is $7.65.

In my case, it's a lot less, because of solar, but that had a large up-front cost.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

I would think that's your answer right there. However, I'll give my two cents. It sounds cheap and petty, and it's driven by an attitude that's behind too many things that are wrong with our society. The way I see it, if someone has a need, fine use it, but if you're just trying to save a few pennies 'cause you can...well personal pride would keep me from doing it.

But you wouldn't be breaking any rules or anything, so do what suits you. It's not our business, anyway, and if you hadn't asked for opinions, I wouldn't have said a word.

Not to provoke any flame war, but I can see it another way:

I am using ALL the features provided to me to the full extent. The saving few pennies is a side effect of my usage habit of one of the features.

But I think the win-win solution is, like other mentioned here, to get the 14-50 and supplement as needed.

 

[Max*]

Probably true in sunny California. In the northern US and Canada, 120 volts is all but useless in the winter. The heater needed to warm the pack will consume more than a 120 volt outlet can deliver on its own. (Just pointing this out as a general comment as I realize the OP is in California too).

This may put a damper in my plans... how cold is too cold to get any kind of charge with a 120V outlet?

 

[davewill]

...I am using ALL the features provided to me to the full extent. The saving few pennies is a side effect of my usage habit of one of the features. ...

No doubt you feel that way. Try googling "Tragedy of the Commons" for some thoughts on why that might not be so cool.

 

[mknox]

This may put a damper in my plans... how cold is too cold to get any kind of charge with a 120V outlet?

In my experience, anything lower than freezing (32 F / 0 C) could be problematic. A 120 volt outlet can deliver up to 2.9 kW (120 * 12 amps) and I've seen the heater draw twice that. Last November, I parked for 2 1/2 days at a hotel during a conference plugged in to a 120 volt outlet. The temps were hovering just a tad above freezing and I think in all that time I gained about 30 miles. That works out to about 1/2 mile per hour of charging, and I think the only reason for that was that the car and battery were all nice and toasty warm when I arrived and plugged in. I think if it were colder I might just have maintained status quo for the duration. In the summer months, I seem to get around 3 miles per hour of range when plugged in to a 120 volt outlet.

 

[davewill]

... A 120 volt outlet can deliver up to 2.9 kW (120 * 12 amps) and I've seen the heater draw twice that. ...

Actually 120v * 12a is 1.44kW, probably call it an even 1kW by the time you consider normal charging overhead.

 

[JimmyAZ]

I didn't pay for the second charger for my car, because I wasn't buying the HPWC. It just didn't make sense. You also don't need the second charger to charge at home so I think factoring that into how much money you save is a bit silly - same goes for the installation of the HPWC. You also don't need a second UMC cable to buy your car. I keep mine in the garage unless I need to go on a trip like last weekend. Just unplug it, roll it up, and put it in the trunk. I'm not sure why you're factoring in all these 'unnecessary' purchases to justify purchasing the car.

With a single charger, you can charge at home at 28mph @ 40A and at a Supercharger you charge @ 200-350mph. Here in AZ that costs me about $2.00-4.50 per day since I charge it each and every day. I spend more than that on cocktails at night so that's moot. And if you're able to do some electrical yourself you can set up a NEMA 14-50 plug at your home for around $100. Done and paid for. I am no electrician, but after watching the videos of how to wire into your panel and understanding the wire needed (6awg) it was a cinch. I did it in an evening and it works flawlessly.

Take the plunge. And use the Superchargers if you like. But don't factor in the HPWC, second charger, and extra UMC. You don't even need those things.

 

[mknox]

Actually 120v * 12a is 1.44kW, probably call it an even 1kW by the time you consider normal charging overhead.

Right :redface: So used to thinking in 240 volts I had that in my head when I wrote that. But it makes my point even more clear. (i.e. not much power available from a 120 volt outlet).

 

[Maaz]

Do it if you'd like, we don't own the superchargers tesla does, and they say it's okay to charge as often as you'd like. I personally wouldn't because it's a lot more convenient to charge at home. But if this is more convenient for you do it. Enjoy

 

[vvanders]

Something else you might want to keep in mind is Tesla recommends keeping the S plugged in to deal with battery degradation and leveling. I'd recommend just installing the 14-50, the small hassle and cost will be worth it in the long run.