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Supercharging to reduce ownership cost of a Model S.

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Giving up home charging just because Supercharging is free is a little bit like giving up indoor plumbing and going back to an outhouse because you don't want to spend the extra money on water.

Even if you start with just a 5-15 (or 5-20 if you can), I'm sure you'll become addicted to home charging so quickly that this will be a moot point in a few months.
 
I live two miles from my local supercharger. In 8 months and 9000 miles, I have used it exactly twice. Once for a quick boost from 80% to 90% to add a bit of cushion for an unplanned trip. The other was a quick add of 50 miles because when I got home from a small trip, the SO wanted to go out and I needed to add miles to make the trip with a reserve. IMHO superchargers are for travelers and OCCASIONAL local use. Home charging is super easy and very convenient.
 
This is an interesting thread. Assuming 75 kWh usable capacity, it costs me about $5 to fully charge my car at home. If I were to do this at a Supercharger, it would take about an hour, right? So basically that comes to $5/hour. If I drive 20,000 miles per year, based on my lifetime average Wh/mi consumption, I would be saving $392 annually while spending about 80 hours per year (two work weeks) of my life at the Supercharger.

Not worth it.
 
This is an interesting thread. Assuming 75 kWh usable capacity, it costs me about $5 to fully charge my car at home. If I were to do this at a Supercharger, it would take about an hour, right? So basically that comes to $5/hour. If I drive 20,000 miles per year, based on my lifetime average Wh/mi consumption, I would be saving $392 annually while spending about 80 hours per year (two work weeks) of my life at the Supercharger.

Not worth it.

That was exactly the conclusion I came up with as well. If you can reasonable charge at home, supercharging really isn't worth it...

Well, unless you're trying to get away from the family or job :tongue:
 
I am the opposite of TES-E. I live 4 miles from a supercharger and I use it exclusively! I use it about 2-3 times a week. I am retired so I don't mind the time it takes. I even have a 10kW solar array on my roof and I STILL charge exclusively at the supercharger. Why not? I paid for it and I like talking with other owners and reading on my Kindle in the peace and quiet if not. For me it is win/win. I am not paying for my juice and I can sell my generation to the local power company instead. I have a 100 Amp HPWC in my garage but personally my advice is, as has already been said, do what is right for you.
 
It is terribly inefficient (in time) to charge the full 75KWh at a supercharging station. I was thinking more of 15-30 minutes at most and putting back maybe 15KWh-30KWh. If you read my previous post, you can see for my situation it's closer to $17.50/hour if you factor in the detour time cost or $24/hour if you don't. This is definitely much better than your $5/hour.

This is why I reiterate people do their own calculation. Some might need the supercharging station out of necessity, while for others it might work out very well, while still for others; worthless. Not everyone's situation is the same and applying the same solution to all of them will yield less than optimal solution in terms of total resources.

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I am the opposite of TES-E. I live 4 miles from a supercharger and I use it exclusively! I use it about 2-3 times a week. I am retired so I don't mind the time it takes. I even have a 10kW solar array on my roof and I STILL charge exclusively at the supercharger. Why not? I paid for it and I like talking with other owners and reading on my Kindle in the peace and quiet if not. For me it is win/win. I am not paying for my juice and I can sell my generation to the local power company instead. I have a 100 Amp HPWC in my garage but personally my advice is, as has already been said, do what is right for you.

Great Advice! I just wish more people would think about it more carefully instead of just "NO you are exploiting the system you cheap bastard."

I didn't even think about the payback for the solar. But from all my calculation, it's not economical to do so because of the cost of the system. I think the going rate is $0.04/KWh sold back and the recent quotes I got for solar systems yield $0.07/KWh if you assume 25 years solar generation. So I think it's best if you size your system just enough to cover what you use.
 
I don't think your looking at this the right way. If it is just a money decision then do not purchase a HPWC and simply get a 240v plug installed. You will get a full charge overnight with a 240 plug, it will just take longer than the HPWC. It should cost less than $1,000. There is no need to buy any extra cables. Now the questions you have to ask yourself is if 15-30 minutes of your time 10-15 days a month (120-180 times a year... 30 to 90 hours a year) is worth saving less than $1,000. For me this is a no brainer. There are already not enough hours in a day! My original plan was not to get the HWPC or dual charger, but now with destination charging I'm rethinking it.
 
I don't think your looking at this the right way. If it is just a money decision then do not purchase a HPWC and simply get a 240v plug installed. You will get a full charge overnight with a 240 plug, it will just take longer than the HPWC. It should cost less than $1,000. There is no need to buy any extra cables. Now the questions you have to ask yourself is if 15-30 minutes of your time 10-15 days a month (120-180 times a year... 30 to 90 hours a year) is worth saving less than $1,000. For me this is a no brainer. There are already not enough hours in a day! My original plan was not to get the HWPC or dual charger, but now with destination charging I'm rethinking it.

Well the saving is just not the $1000 for the NEMA 14-50 installation. It's the cost of electricity also. For my case, assuming I am in the lower tiers in electricity cost, I will save over $2K over a year period for my daily driving habit excluding the occasional road trip. So like I said, it's $24/hour or $17/hour if you factor in the detour. Sure this might still not be worth it but just pointing out that if someone can make use of the time like working while you wait, then all the better. It might not work for you, but definitely worth a second look for me and most likely for others out there.

Better yet, it's like using the restroom at the local McDonald's exclusively every day.

Well I wouldn't consider the McDonald's restroom akin to Tesla supercharging station. If this was your usual Blink or ChargePoint charger, then sure I will accept the analogy. However I would think the tesla supercharging station is akin to using the Marriot's 5 star hotel restroom exclusively every day. Now that I wouldn't mind even if it's for the public.
 
I am the opposite of TES-E. I live 4 miles from a supercharger and I use it exclusively! I use it about 2-3 times a week. I am retired so I don't mind the time it takes. I even have a 10kW solar array on my roof and I STILL charge exclusively at the supercharger. Why not? I paid for it and I like talking with other owners and reading on my Kindle in the peace and quiet if not. For me it is win/win. I am not paying for my juice and I can sell my generation to the local power company instead. I have a 100 Amp HPWC in my garage but personally my advice is, as has already been said, do what is right for you.
I look at it the same way you do and I'm in a similar situation, SC location on my route home from work, 6kW solar array on my home. I use it when I'm really low on a charge and don't want to use the 48A Clipper Creek charger that needs to alternate between my Tesla and my wife's Ford Focus EV. When I have other things that I can multitask when charging, I'll hit the SC, otherwise I'll usually just charge at home.

Everybody's needs and situation is different and people should do what's right for them. What I described here works for me.
 
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Some more ideas to save money:

Always pinch and only poop when you go to work. Saves you money on toilet paper.

Roll down the window and stick your head out as you drive. Keep you mouth open wide. Saves money on snacks.

Only shower once a week, whenever you are at someone else's house. Saves having to wash your own towels and buy your own soap.

Don't pay for garbage pickup. Just put your trash in your neighbors trash can.
 
A few random thoughts for the OP:

--Your financial assessment is skewed. Few Tesla owners need a HPWC or dual chargers, and your 14-50 cost seems high, so you can't really claim all that as 'savings'. Also make sure you factor in TOU/EV rates, if applicable. With a little bit of lifestyle adjustment you can time shift a lot of your major power usage (W/D, dishwasher, HVAC, water heater, etc.) to the off-peak rates.

--You can certainly defer the cost of a 14-50 and just charge off 110v in the beginning, but as others have stated you will quickly find that the convenience of charging at home is invaluable. It really is the game-changing aspect of BEV vs ICE. There's definitely a benefit to 'local supercharging', but forcing yourself into making supercharging a necessity (as opposed to an opportunity) is going to get old, fast. Don't deny yourself the BEV owner experience.

--If you aren't already, you should seriously consider used/CPO cars. You can probably get into a 60 for under $50k on the private market. Your monthlies will be significantly lower, and you'll probably lose as much in depreciation over the rest of your ownership than you would lose in the first year of a new vehicle. The most important thing to remember is: Model S is just the beginning! Model 3 (for instance) will be at least as technologically advanced as a 2015 Model S, at a lower price point. You don't need to dump all of your eggs into a dream-car Model S. Buy a used car, drive it for 3-4 years, then upgrade to something better.

--There are some who are quick to shame over the 'ethics', but its not a big deal. Just use a little common courtesy. If all the stalls are full and someone pulls up, unplug and be on your way. They're probably a local too (other than holiday traffic, the only reason superchargers get clogged up is from locals), but...do unto others, and all...

--There are also some who claim local supercharging is simply wasted time (and they cite some equivalent hourly rate as supporting evidence), but that's a pretty unimaginative way to asses the opportunity of local supercharging...especially from folks on a forum that embraces alternative transportation. The key to making local supercharging efficient and useful is to think alternatively about how you spend your time; making local supercharging 'worth it' is all about time-shifting your other daily activities. The easy one is work related stuff--if you can slog through your emails or dial into a telecom or work on a presentation while at the supercharger, you're cooking with fire. The other easy one is The Internets--if you're going to spend time on your couch skimming through TMC at some point in the day/week anyway, a supercharger is a perfect place to multitask that activity. If your supercharger has nearby services (grocery store, etc) you can squeeze in some errands. Some people whip out a care care kit and go to town while charging. How often do you call Mom...and how hard is it to find time to do so during your otherwise busy day? Do you read a lot? How about keeping a book in the car? Do you (or, <ahem>, should you...) walk more? I've actually seen people pull out a lawn chair at the charger just to get some sun! Brilliant! The sky is the limit--you just need to apply the same progressive thinking to that 30 min of your day that everyone else applied to their decision to buy a Model S in the first place.
 
I hope OP was joking, but I suspect not. I simply cannot understand how anybody can consider TCO without factoring in PITA time. Fact is, even if you value your time at some minuscule amount like $10 per hour, you come out WAY ahead with home charging vs. sitting at a supercharger, driving out of the way to get to/fro supercharger, re-routing or waiting when your supercharger is jammed, re-arranging your schedule for off-peak supercharger time, etc. Now, I do understand why some condo/apartment dwellers are forced to be gypsy chargers. But if you've got a place to put a charger, you'll come out way ahead on TCO if you install one and use it every night.

Not to mention, the issue of being a parasite. If you want to be a parasite, go ahead. I know it would damage my self-image.
 
I hope OP was joking, but I suspect not. I simply cannot understand how anybody can consider TCO without factoring in PITA time. Fact is, even if you value your time at some minuscule amount like $10 per hour, you come out WAY ahead with home charging vs. sitting at a supercharger, driving out of the way to get to/fro supercharger, re-routing or waiting when your supercharger is jammed, re-arranging your schedule for off-peak supercharger time, etc. Now, I do understand why some condo/apartment dwellers are forced to be gypsy chargers. But if you've got a place to put a charger, you'll come out way ahead on TCO if you install one and use it every night.

Not to mention, the issue of being a parasite. If you want to be a parasite, go ahead. I know it would damage my self-image.

Definition of parasite:
an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense
I don't think I am benefiting at the host's expense. Remember supercharging is priced into the tesla. The way I see it is I am free to use that feature to my liking. Another way to look at it is since my situation favors me to use the supercharging every other day or so, it would be wasteful NOT to use it. And I hate waste! Again different solution for different problem. It might not work for 99% of people out there but for me it works... at least until the stations gets more congested and then I will rethink this proposal.

A few random thoughts for the OP:

--Your financial assessment is skewed. Few Tesla owners need a HPWC or dual chargers, and your 14-50 cost seems high, so you can't really claim all that as 'savings'. Also make sure you factor in TOU/EV rates, if applicable. With a little bit of lifestyle adjustment you can time shift a lot of your major power usage (W/D, dishwasher, HVAC, water heater, etc.) to the off-peak rates.

--You can certainly defer the cost of a 14-50 and just charge off 110v in the beginning, but as others have stated you will quickly find that the convenience of charging at home is invaluable. It really is the game-changing aspect of BEV vs ICE. There's definitely a benefit to 'local supercharging', but forcing yourself into making supercharging a necessity (as opposed to an opportunity) is going to get old, fast. Don't deny yourself the BEV owner experience.

--If you aren't already, you should seriously consider used/CPO cars. You can probably get into a 60 for under $50k on the private market. Your monthlies will be significantly lower, and you'll probably lose as much in depreciation over the rest of your ownership than you would lose in the first year of a new vehicle. The most important thing to remember is: Model S is just the beginning! Model 3 (for instance) will be at least as technologically advanced as a 2015 Model S, at a lower price point. You don't need to dump all of your eggs into a dream-car Model S. Buy a used car, drive it for 3-4 years, then upgrade to something better.

--There are some who are quick to shame over the 'ethics', but its not a big deal. Just use a little common courtesy. If all the stalls are full and someone pulls up, unplug and be on your way. They're probably a local too (other than holiday traffic, the only reason superchargers get clogged up is from locals), but...do unto others, and all...

--There are also some who claim local supercharging is simply wasted time (and they cite some equivalent hourly rate as supporting evidence), but that's a pretty unimaginative way to asses the opportunity of local supercharging...especially from folks on a forum that embraces alternative transportation. The key to making local supercharging efficient and useful is to think alternatively about how you spend your time; making local supercharging 'worth it' is all about time-shifting your other daily activities. The easy one is work related stuff--if you can slog through your emails or dial into a telecom or work on a presentation while at the supercharger, you're cooking with fire. The other easy one is The Internets--if you're going to spend time on your couch skimming through TMC at some point in the day/week anyway, a supercharger is a perfect place to multitask that activity. If your supercharger has nearby services (grocery store, etc) you can squeeze in some errands. Some people whip out a care care kit and go to town while charging. How often do you call Mom...and how hard is it to find time to do so during your otherwise busy day? Do you read a lot? How about keeping a book in the car? Do you (or, <ahem>, should you...) walk more? I've actually seen people pull out a lawn chair at the charger just to get some sun! Brilliant! The sky is the limit--you just need to apply the same progressive thinking to that 30 min of your day that everyone else applied to their decision to buy a Model S in the first place.

Thanks for being the word of reason. Many here just think it doesn't work for them and so they push their solution onto me. Like other have said, there are plenty of things to do while I wait to get a charge. In this day and age, everything is connected and there are plenty of things to do while I wait.

Even if it sounds good in theory...are you really going to enjoy supercharging when its windy and a torrential downpour ?
Go ahead and use the SC. I think you will become tired of it soon.

This is sunny San Diego. Because of the recent drought, I doubt I will need to worry about this anytime soon. "Torrential downpour" hahah I cracked up when you said that.

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Some more ideas to save money:

Always pinch and only poop when you go to work. Saves you money on toilet paper.

Roll down the window and stick your head out as you drive. Keep you mouth open wide. Saves money on snacks.

Only shower once a week, whenever you are at someone else's house. Saves having to wash your own towels and buy your own soap.

Don't pay for garbage pickup. Just put your trash in your neighbors trash can.

The way I see it is, I am not saving money but more like I am better using the Model S to its full extent. Saving money is a side-effect. Until it gets too congested to be worth it, I will change my behavior.
 
If you do this, you are a parasite. "The way you see it" is wrong. And, I don't make absolute statements like that often. The superchargers were set up to enable cross country travel, not for habitual local charging. Otherwise, they would be in population centers. Yes, some of cost factored into price of car, but with assumption it was for long distance use, and that would be some reasonable % of charging.

And, I'll reiterate, there needs to be a local charging solution for condo/apartment dwellers (around the world). But that's a different problem and solution. People who rationalize "it's there, paid for, I'll use it" are abusing the availability.
 
Remember supercharging is priced into the tesla.

Not like that it's not.

Not any more so than if you have a 100mbs internet connection at home for $50/month, thinking that it gives you the right to download the theoretical max of 32tb of data each month because it's "priced in". (When it costs the ISP at least $320 to supply that).


So sure, if you occasionally use the SuperCharger it is built into the price of your Tesla. When you abuse the SuperCharger though, it's built into the price of MY Tesla.
 
Don't know why everyone is jumping on the OP. in Europe there are tones of taxis that are model S's...these cars clog the superchargers all the time. if Tesla didn't intend to have the superchargers used that way they would have only put them in remote areas.

BTW my time is worth much more that saving $3 per day as the most I have used with my home charger is $90 in a month with 3700 KM's ( 2300 Miles).