TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Supercharging with a Model 3 thoughts

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by MikeDog77, Jun 28, 2018.

  1. MikeDog77

    MikeDog77 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    Pittsburgh PA
    I have had the car now for over 2 months and have supercharged 6 times in 3 different states. I will say I have been overly impressed with the Super Charger. I can honestly say with my wife and 2 kids, we have never had to wait a minute for a Super Charger. In that I mean that we always had to eat, go to the bathroom or get a coffee and we never sat around waiting for the Car to charge. And we have done 2 different trips over 500 miles. Maybe we got lucky, maybe we use the bathroom a lot, but when starting with 310 miles range you don't really need to stop a lot in order to go 500+ miles.

    I hate to bring this up because the Model S guys are screwed with this but using only around 250 wh(M3) vs 350(Model S) makes a big difference. So a Model S is going to take a lot longer to add 100 miles than a M3. I know the generation 3 superchargers are coming soon, but at least with the 3 I don't think much more is needed to where people consider it as convenient as going to a gas station.

    Final thought. I know Tesla says they don't envision the Super Charging as being a profit center. That is nice of them to say that, and I am sure it has been a drag on their bottom line to date. But I have spent $17 over 2 months. That is about $100 a year. If/When there are 200k Model 3's on the road (this time next year) that is $20 Million in revenue. Would not be surprised if they go over 100 million in revenue in Super Charging in 2020.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Funny x 1
  2. azred

    azred Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,173
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    I have both an S and a 3 and find your assumption that an S owner is terribly inconvenienced when supercharging is nonsense.
     
    • Like x 4
  3. MikeDog77

    MikeDog77 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    Pittsburgh PA
    Maybe you misunderstood me. Since you have both the S and the 3, do you not find the 3 charges a lot faster? In a Miles added per minute/hour sense?
     
  4. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    Messages:
    696
    Location:
    Buford, GA
    While there is revenue, I suspect that it will be quite a while, if ever, before they get a positive margin on sales.

    For now, and may years, it will be a cost center.
     
    • Like x 2
  5. davewill

    davewill Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    785
    Location:
    San Diego, CA, US
    I wouldn't think so. A bigger battery can charge at a higher rate. I would expect the end result to be pretty similar.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. tivoboy

    tivoboy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2018
    Messages:
    396
    Location:
    palo alto, ca
    I think these numbers will be quite a bit higher. I think people will charge at superchargers more often and the USA pricing varies. It's .26/kw out here so charges rates can be double what they are in other regions.
     
  7. suwaneedad

    suwaneedad Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    512
    Location:
    Atlanta
    OP, your SC experience has been similar to mine in the Southeast during the first three months of ownership. My sole negatives have both been in Macon, GA. 1. several bad stalls, with no way of knowing they were bad other than trial/error, and despite reporting them to Tesla they had not been fixed when we returned two weeks later. 2. the same Macon SC worked fine the first time, but on our return visit it would charge for a few minutes and then stop...that was a frustration because in Macon it's about a five minute walk to a coffee shop or restaurant (Macon is a relatively early SC location...not the best choice). We've visited ~12 SCs over three road trips (Memphis, Miami, Hilton Head) from Atlanta so far, with Orlando/Jax on tap in July. Boston this fall. The cost for energy is comically low, particularly relative to gasoline. And no time inconveniences as you point out in your OP; but you are committed to stopping at the occasional SC locations so the liberty of stopping at any random highway exit is no longer in play. I'm a goal-oriented person so this is just fine of course. As my son said to me after his Memphis trip, "don't bother planning your SC routing. No need. Just get in the car and go." He's spot on. We are living in the future now, thanks to Elon and thousands of employees who are dedicated to bringing it all to reality for us.
     
    • Like x 3
  8. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    5,626
    Location:
    Delaware
    It's true that the 3 charges noticeably faster, in terms of range, at least for the moment.

    My X75D is probably close to the worst case for a modern Tesla, though, and it's right on the edge. Along the east coast, with the higher charger density and lower speed limits, I generally don't have to wait for it if I do sit down meals while traveling. As the speed limits go up and the stops get further apart going west, I start to wait a little occasionally.

    So yes, Tesla is somewhere pretty close to "good enough" for all their cars right now, with some better than others - as long as you don't run into congestion at the charger sites. (In my 1400 mile roadtrip last week, I only had one site fill up - and I think it was mostly local opportunity charging - Hagerstown outlets on Sunday evening near dinner time had three other cars join me. Other than that, I had two stops where there was one other car for part of the time, and was alone for all the rest.)
     
  9. Zoomit

    Zoomit Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    605
    Location:
    SoCal
    That's true if both batteries are charging at the same C-rate, but both the Model 3 and S batteries are charging at ~120kW, which is a higher C-rate for the smaller 3LR battery. The S/X100 batteries to do charge at that rate up to ~60% SOC, while the 3 starts tapering a little earlier, ~50% SOC.

    Tesla Battery Charging Data from 801 Cars – About A Better Routeplanner
     
    • Informative x 3
  10. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    Messages:
    2,194
    Location:
    Sydney
    I agree about the greater efficiency being a benefit when charging the 3 over the S.
    It’s one of the things that could lure me out of my S once the 3 becomes available here in Australia.

    It’s also noteworthy that this benefit carries over to home and destination charging as well. Getting the same range in an hour at a destination charger lunch as an S gets in an hour and a half. That’s non-trivial, especially here in supercharger-starved Australia where many trips require AC charging, either from destination chargers or 3 phase outlets.
     
  11. davewill

    davewill Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    785
    Location:
    San Diego, CA, US
    As I said, the bigger battery charges faster. The table at the bottom of that page makes the same conclusion. With the 3's better efficiency, I suspect the overall time difference isn't great.
     
    • Informative x 1
  12. Zoomit

    Zoomit Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    605
    Location:
    SoCal
    The Model 3 LR charges about 20-25% faster than a Model S 100D, on a per mile basis using the current Superchargers. A 45min stop with the S is a 35min stop with the 3. I consider that a significant difference.
     
    • Like x 3
  13. eprosenx

    eprosenx Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Messages:
    718
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR
    I wonder if one big "win" with the Model 3 though is that if the current gen Superchargers are busy and you have to share one cabinet with another car, the fact that the Model 3 needs less total energy (but I am guessing the split is equal) means you will spend less time in superchargers than the big hungry Model S or X cars.
     
  14. HopeToGolf

    HopeToGolf Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    123
    Location:
    USA - New Jersey
    I’m on a ~230 mile road trip. Wow...I’m liking this. Of course we don’t “need” to stop for a charge but we do need to stop for the bathroom and to stretch our legs. We stopped at a supercharger, plugged in, walked to Starbucks, went to the restroom, waited a few minutes for our coffees, walked back to the car and off to our destination. Literally there was no time wasted. That said, we are on the east cost so the superchargers are plentiful.

    That said, on our return trip there will be a behavior change. Instead of grabbing breakfast near our hotel and then heading out, we are going to supercharge near our hotel and eat while the car is charging and then head out. This required a bit of planning. In an ICE car we would not have thought about this at all.

    I’m really curious about how the owners of other EVs deal with road trips. Planning this trip was almost like traveling with an ICE car due to knowing I probably was driving past or toward at least a half dozen superchargers (not to mention my range would have taken me to my destination without a charge anyway).
     
  15. timk225

    timk225 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,043
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    I don't like the idea of paying for supercharging, just like anyone else, but I've seen supercharger stations being built, and I know enough to know that the equipment is not cheap. A big ass 480 volt 3 phase transformer, the 3-4 big power boxes it feeds into, the supercharger stations themselves, all the cement work, etc.

    And I don't even know what Tesla does about acquiring the land / property on which to install the superchargers. Do business owners volunteer it, or does tesla have to pay rent or lease the spaces, and so forth.
     
  16. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Messages:
    2,244
    Location:
    Boise, ID
    Yeah, it's pretty remarkable. I did a 5,000+ mile trip in February, and I intentionally didn't plan it out. I hadn't even picked what cities I was going to stop in. And when I was halfway through, I decided I would take a different route back across the country. And this was in 11 days, so I was pushing 500 to 600 miles a day, so I wasn't taking any slow charging stops or even overnight charging. I just booked an AirBNB place for the next city I wanted to go to and just hit the Superchargers along the way.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Love x 1
  17. SpiceWare

    SpiceWare Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Messages:
    632
    Location:
    Fresno, Texas
    #17 SpiceWare, Jul 8, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    Why not use Destination Charging? Exactly a month ago my folks and I were in the middle of our first Tesla cross country road trip from Houston to central Wisconsin to visit my brother. We had a small family gathering for my nephew's graduation as he was shipping out for Basic Training soon after. First step was to have the car plan the entire route:
    IMG_9994.jpg

    Next step was deciding our first stopping point - opted for at or just after Little Rock, AR due to the long supercharge time required to make it to Miner, Mo. We cancelled the overall trip, zoomed in on Little Rock, then hit the lightning bolt to find charging options.
    IMG_0002.jpg

    The red pins are superchargers, grey pins are Destination Chargers. Checked a few, decided on the Best Western, called the hotel to make the reservation, then hit Navigate to plan the route for day 1.
    IMG_0004.jpg IMG_0005.jpg IMG_9997.jpg

    When we arrived we plugged in and the car charged to 90% while we slept. In the morning I bumped the car up to 100% so it would top it off while we showered, had breakfast, etc. Note - we had a Loaner S100D for the trip, my 3 was at the Service Center, so I couldn't use the Tesla app and had to go out to the car to change it to 100%.
    IMG_9892.jpg

    We were able to get hotels with Destination Charging for all 4 nights we were on the road, Naperville, IL was the second night on the way up (stopped there to visit friends) and the small towns of Mount Vernon, IL and Mashall, TX on the way back. For the week we were in Wisconsin we stayed Christmas Mountain in the Dells. They had RV50 amp service in one section which we could have used if we needed it. Instead at night we plugged into a 120 outlet by the cabin's front door, and during the day while awake used the dryer connection with an extension cord for a faster charge. I had the extension cord as that's what I use at home if I need a fast charge (I work from home so a 120 outlet is normally adequate for me).
    IMG_9949.jpg IMG_9950.jpg IMG_9951.jpg IMG_9952.jpg

    Another nephew, my sister's kid, joined us for the trip back (he'd gone up with other family as my sister had started a new job and couldn't get the time off). We used my 3 to return him to Corpus Christi the following weekend. Based on that experience, the Model 3 was the clear winner for the passengers (reasons why in that reply).
     
    • Like x 1
  18. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    6,949
    Location:
    Maine
    Lease agreement, Tesla hardly ever pays, probably never pays for new ones; it's more a matter of how much the host will pay to have people stop.

    Back to the OP's points, efficiency certainly has greater benefit to a BEV owner traveling beyond range, than to an ICEV owner.
     
  19. daniel

    daniel Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,131
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    I just came to this thread to get an idea what to expect on my upcoming first electric road trip. I never did this trip with the Roadster because it would have been a hassle, trying to find an RV park to charge at for 4 hours. The Model 3 makes it possible. I'm very happy to see all the positive experiences with the superchargers. Thanks to all.
     
  20. Zaxxon

    Zaxxon Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,157
    Location:
    Colorado
    Superchargers are amazing. Today I traveled from Denver to Lubbock. Left home at 5 am at 95%, charged at breakfast and lunch for a total of one hour--50 minutes of which were not 'extra' time over what I'd have done in an ICE car--and hit Lubbock well over 500 miles away with 120 left in the 'tank.' Charged a bit on L2 at the hotel and am about to head out 130 miles round-trip for some dark sky night photography.

    And Amarillo didn't charge me, so my total Supercharging cost today was $8.

    Stats on this leg of the trip:

    Miles driven - 543.5

    Rated miles used - 577.6
    Avg drive speed - 74 mph
    Drive time - 7:29
    Supercharge time - 1:00
    Avg speed incl charging - 64 mph

    During the two charge stops, I had breakfast and lunch plus a couple of bio breaks. Had I been in a gasoline car, I'd have saved approximately ten minutes (at the first stop, where I just had a smoothie and then waited 10 min for the car to tell me I had sufficient charge to hit the next Supercharger).

    At the second stop, I plugged in, walked over to Fuddruckers about 5 minutes away, ordered my burger, and the car pinged me as I sat down to eat to tell me that I had enough charge to make my destination. I finished eating and let the car keep going as Lubbock has a total of one convenient L2 charger.

    Efficiency was 94% of rated. I think that's largely due to much of the trip being on open NM and TX highways at 80-85 mph. Had I been more conservative I'm sure I could have gotten 100%. Once I realized running out of juice was not going to be a concern, I drove like the natives.

    IMG_20180708_073753.jpg
     
    • Like x 1

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC