Sure does feel like AP parity now

[croman]

FWIW, AP2 doesn't read the shoulder as a drivable lane for me. AP1 loaner kept doing that. AP1 kept reading speed limit signs which seems like a good thing except when it doesn't have contextual understanding to know which is the *correct* sign.

AP2 cannot ALC except on divided highways. It sucks that AP2 still isn't at the same level of competence as AP1 but if/when the side repeater cams, there is no reason it can't ALC on its own on all roads (at all speeds). Currently both cars will not allow lane changes below a certain speed (AP2 is around 31mph in my experience).

AP1 and 2 seemed equally good at lane tracking now. Its been a very long struggle for AP2 to become somewhat competent at this but now it apparently has gotten this lust for concrete barriers...a shame.

 

[unbelievable]

I'm not sure, but in neither of those does the car make the same type of error presumed to be in the CA accident (a lane line reading error).

To be fair to the Tesla in the CA accident, the lines are very worn (see video), with the Tesla following the most defined line which unfortunately ended in an already crushed barrier end. It's an undoubtedly tragic yet totally avoidable accident. Let's keep one eye on the road people.

 

[Az_Rael]

AP2 doesn't "jerk" when you deactivate by resisting it steering

I think this is an individual car thing, not Ap1 vs AP2. I say that because my experience is opposite. Our AP1 gracefully lets go when you override via the wheel, where my AP2 car very scarily jerks.

 

[fasteddie7]

I think this is an individual car thing, not Ap1 vs AP2. I say that because my experience is opposite. Our AP1 gracefully lets go when you override via the wheel, where my AP2 car very scarily jerks.

I second that. Ap1 sorta lets me just take over, ap2 has a rough “jerk” when I take over, I agree it’s a car by car thing, as I drove an ap2 car that did not do this.

 

[croman]

I think wheel tension, as I call it, varies by firmware build.

 

[chillaban]

I think wheel tension, as I call it, varies by firmware build.

I've also noticed some variance with regards to how confident the car is about the lane lines it detects. When traveling with decent lane markings, disengagement force is always fairly heavy for me on AP2. But when passing through an intersection or railway crossing where the car has a propensity to lose the lines and do something crazy, just moderately holding the wheel straight will disengage without any perceivable torque jerk.

 

[brkaus]

I've also noticed some variance with regards to how confident the car is about the lane lines it detects. When traveling with decent lane markings, disengagement force is always fairly heavy for me on AP2. But when passing through an intersection or railway crossing where the car has a propensity to lose the lines and do something crazy, just moderately holding the wheel straight will disengage without any perceivable torque jerk.

I **think** that may be caused by the uncertainty making the steering wheel turn more frequently and more quickly. So it’s easier for it to detect a torque.

 

[croman]

I've also noticed some variance with regards to how confident the car is about the lane lines it detects. When traveling with decent lane markings, disengagement force is always fairly heavy for me on AP2. But when passing through an intersection or railway crossing where the car has a propensity to lose the lines and do something crazy, just moderately holding the wheel straight will disengage without any perceivable torque jerk.

I've also noticed this to some degree in earlier builds. Now it seems easier no matter where to disengage without bouncing around.

 

[chillaban]

Yeah I'm not sure the why's of it, but I also agree with the general sentiment that it seems better lately. I've only had one scary disengagement oversteer situation, and that happened on one of the 2017.28-ish builds where I virtually had to wrestle control back and then correct a bit of traction loss.

 

[TaoJones]

Other than these 3 primary items for which AP2 isn’t close to AP1, at least during a quick 1,000-mile desert road trip this weekend.

Thought of another scenario as well that has regressed with AP2:

Remember how with AP1 we used to be able to nudge the car laterally without AP breaking loose? Seems less so with the recent improved versions of AP2.

Becomes important when the cost of windshield and rock chips is now so high.

How nice it would be for the car to drift left (as available) when overtaking a large truck in the adjacent/right lane.

Or to drift right as oncoming traffic/a big truck approaches (yes, in non-divided highway scenarios).

The worst windshield chips and rock strikes have occurred when I haven’t been able to get far enough one way or the other.

Today, neither AP1 nor AP2 achieve this effectively.

I’d happily take stop sign recognition *and reaction* along with AP1’s speed limit sign reaction before a common-sense/safety feature such as moving over in the lane (Drivers Ed 101), but at some point this feature would be a great differentiator/competitive advantage.

I hope Tesla does not squander the opportunity.

 

[Joe F]

As much as I love that feel of the road, taut steering sporty feel, it means little on the road when using AS. I’ve moved on to comfort mode, and find little to no swerving during a disengagement.

 

[Az_Rael]

I second that. Ap1 sorta lets me just take over, ap2 has a rough “jerk” when I take over, I agree it’s a car by car thing, as I drove an ap2 car that did not do this.

Yeah, I even took my car to the SC to complain about it. They said I was using AP "wrong". The "proper" way to disengage is with the stalk apparently (I knew that). I can't fault them too much, since when I told them the torque was too hard to overcome when taking control and causing the car to jerk after AP let go, that translated to "customer disengages AP by jerking the wheel causing the car to jerk" on the ticket. Sigh. Maybe I will try again on my next visit.

 

[croman]

As much as I love that feel of the road, taut steering sporty feel, it means little on the road when using AS. I’ve moved on to comfort mode, and find little to no swerving during a disengagement.

I've always had comfort. So that variable is not variable for me and my experiences with variability in disengagement torque.

 

[Joe F]

I've always had comfort. So that variable is not variable for me and my experiences with variability in disengagement torque.

Hmm, points to either H/W diffs, or a lighter touch on the wheel

Could be my perception is dulled due to overindulgence now that I think about it...

 

[buttershrimp]

There’s still some object recognition, like speed limit signs, that need to be implemented, and I’d assume we’ll see stop sign recognition soon after when it comes, but apart from recognition the lane keeping and navigation of windy roads is getting quite good!

Once it can change lanes with AP1 availability of auto lane change on more roads and can read speed limit signs like AP1 to get around random map errors, it will be clearly better even without adjacent vehicle recognition.

 

[buttershrimp]

There's one additional AP1/AP2 difference I've seen. My AP2 S won't change lanes when I have autosteer enabled on Rt.9, a divided turnpike that runs east-west across Massachusetts. I've twice had a loaner X with AP1 and it handles this lane change like any other.

Yep, this was one of the big suprises for me with AP1, how much I would covet the greater lane change availability... that and how nice it is not to have phantom speed limit changes. 10.4 is so good though that I agree the lane keeping is at parity or better on some roads.

 

[fasteddie7]

Yeah, I even took my car to the SC to complain about it. They said I was using AP "wrong". The "proper" way to disengage is with the stalk apparently (I knew that). I can't fault them too much, since when I told them the torque was too hard to overcome when taking control and causing the car to jerk after AP let go, that translated to "customer disengages AP by jerking the wheel causing the car to jerk" on the ticket. Sigh. Maybe I will try again on my next visit.

Except grabbing the stock isn’t my first reaction when autopilot crosses you over a line or toward a guardrail

 

[Az_Rael]

Except grabbing the stock isn’t my first reaction when autopilot crosses you over a line or toward a guardrail

Me neither. I am learning to tap the brakes instead. Just annoying that I lose TACC in that scenario, when all I wanted to do was correct APs line through a curve.

 

[Joe F]

Yeah, I even took my car to the SC to complain about it. They said I was using AP "wrong". The "proper" way to disengage is with the stalk apparently (I knew that).

Really? Perhaps they might want to check their own documentation:

 

[RAW84]

Really? Perhaps they might want to check their own documentation:

View attachment 293070

That was a silly assertion by the SC since disengaging auto steer with the stalk will also disengage TACC which is not always the desired action. I would've challenged them on that. I hate when people make stuff up just to get you to stop questioning an issue.