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Surprised there's no CCS support. Thoughts?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by emir-t, Jul 29, 2017.

  1. emir-t

    emir-t Member

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    I was expecting Tesla to accept standards and offer CCS charging too with the Model 3. Now, maybe they still do and they just didn't deny nor reveal it. However I'm sure someone would've caught it if the port was there. With the RC photoso of the charge port I always thought the awkward black plastic beneath the charge port where there is no port was a placeholder hiding the CCS port.

    Do you think Tesla thinks that the 100kw CCS network will develop very rapidly with collaborative effort and capital and doesn't want Model 3s using it to avoid a possible devaluation of the network in terms of users? Highly unlikely but it is very interesting they didn't offer that.

    Thoughts on the forum?
     
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  2. bkp_duke

    bkp_duke Member

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    Not surprised at all. Tesla has their own high-speed charging standard, why add complexity to a car that by design needs to be as simple as possible to make any profit.
     
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  3. emir-t

    emir-t Member

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    Complexity? How's a part adding complexity? It's just a protocol no hardware changes beside a port is needed.

    As to why, can it be because you might want less load @ your superchargers? I hope, but don't think, Euro spec cars get it.
     
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  4. bkp_duke

    bkp_duke Member

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    It's not just ONE part. And the programming is not "simple".

    I have a Chademo adapter and charge from it on my S. This is not "fool proof".

    By design the 3 is supposed to be as simple as possible. CSS and other unnecessary crap were eliminated even before the sketching phase. You should have never had a hope that this would be a possibility. Not when Tesla has their own charging protocol.
     
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  5. ma9mwah

    ma9mwah New Member

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    Looking at this picture, i'm hoping there's enough room for the CCS in European versions. They are already going to have to swap it to a Type2 plug so hopefully they can go all the way with the CCS.

    Tesla-Model-3-charge-port.jpg
    Tesla-Model-3-charge-port.jpg
     
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  6. emir-t

    emir-t Member

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    CCS? Unnecessary crap?

    Clearly you are living in the Tesla bubble. Rest of us with less disposable income find it very important. Check out the Euro scene of EVs and how the new Ioniq can pull 70kW from 100kW CCS stations despite the 28kWh pack. With great efficiency charged km/h is almost equivalent of supercharging. Had Tesla given CCS support (which is analog like J1772, unlike CAN communication with Chademo and Superchargers) a lot of freedom would be granted to 3 owners alongside contributing to an improvement with Supercharger congestion without the investment. Just my .02$
     
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  7. AlanSqB

    AlanSqB Dog Chauffeur

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    I think the best we're going to be able to hope for is a CCS - Tesla adapter. I don't really know the HV protocols, but the fact they haven't already created one means it's a non-trivial conversion, unlike the CHAdeMO. I certainly hope to see something like this though since VW is going to be putting all those nice CCS stations out there soon.
     
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  8. bkp_duke

    bkp_duke Member

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    No, I'm living in the largest market where the car will be released.

    I'm sure they might re-work something for regulatory standards for Europe later, but things like that area exactly why Europe is not seeing a single delivery until 18 or more months after deliveries in the USA.

    This is a LASER FOCUS for Tesla, and they need to keep things as simple as possible to meet production estimates. They will likely not make their production estimates anyway, based upon how the S and X had ramp-up problems, so they of course will not add anything to the car above what is absolutely necessary. Look how Spartan everything in this car is.

    What about this is confusing to you?
     
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  9. eloder

    eloder Active Member

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    Why would Tesla put in a port with a vastly lower charge rate, that's also much larger and bulkier than their adapter? And one that doesn't work with their hundreds of existing superchargers without annoying adapters?

    It doesn't make sense to dump the best for one of the crappy standards out in the world outside of Europe.
     
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  10. bkp_duke

    bkp_duke Member

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    My understanding is that the Chademo adapter was created only because the Japanese insisted upon it, not because Tesla thought it was the best idea. I believe it was more regulatory compliance to sell the cars, than to actually prove beneficial to the buyers.

    And yes, I agree, I've heard that the CSS is substantially more complicated to make an adapter for than Chademo.
     
  11. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    mean, but true.

    50kw is fairly worthless charge rate.
     
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  12. timk225

    timk225 Member

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    Tesla needs to have CCS on cars in America, not just other countries. Then I could use the CCS station a mile away instead of driving 20 miles to the nearest Supercharger. Being able to do this would lessen the load on the Supercharger network. This is so obvious it's not even funny. Tesla needs to quit being so stubborn about only using their plug.

    And the CCS would be a SIMPLE implementation. Just put the charging plug under the right side taillight. The protocol already exists, just copy it into the car.
     
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  13. bkp_duke

    bkp_duke Member

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    WRONG. The protocol is substantially more difficult to convert to Tesla's own than Chademo (and I cannot tell you how many times I've had the firmware updated on the Chademo adapter to fix issues with 3rd party charging stations).
     
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  14. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they'll make one just to meet your needs.
     
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  15. nicknick

    nicknick New Member

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    I have a Bolt, I can attest to both the slow charge rate and the scarcity of charging stations.
    BTW, you can't get 50kW out of most of the charging stations, 40kW is a more common starting charge rate and it tapers off to much less than that after you get over about 50%.

    In addition, most of the EVgo stations limit you to 30 minutes per charge and the fees are terrible.

    Anyone who wants a CCS to charge their Tesla has a screw loose. I'd give a big pile of money to be able to use Tesla's Superchargers with my Bolt. But I can't, so I'm buying a Model 3 to use for any trips > 200 miles R/T.
     
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  16. nicknick

    nicknick New Member

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    There is a Tesla Supercharger about 2 miles from my house, I'll be charging at home and not at the Supercharger.

    You seem to not understand the scarcity of CCS chargers. The station a mile from your house likely has ONE charging port and it is likely shared with a Chademo port. Anyone charging at it will need to be there a minimum of 30 minutes and to get an 80% charge will take a full hour+. In other words, it won't be available when you want it.

    So get a charging station at home and move on. If you plan on using a CCS station as your primary means to charge you will quickly learn why it's such a bad idea.
     
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  17. JoRey

    JoRey Current Volt Owner, Aspiring Model III Owner

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    Im not sure as to the complexity. But could Tesla design a dummy adapter like the Tesla to j1772 adapter for CCS. Assuming they have the car's onboard computer deal with communications protocols? In other words design the car to use a adapter from the start. I know that Tesla already has the pins for DC-DC and can make use of the communication pins of the J1772 plug.
     
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  18. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

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    What CCS standard? SAE still hasn't ratified a J1772-DC standard that supports DC Level 3 charging (> 200 amps). If Tesla wanted to ship a L3 DCFC CCS today, they couldn't. Should Tesla be held hostage yet again like they were in 2011/2012 by the SAE standards body? Or should they just get on with it and change the world?

    Besides, using a DCFC that close to home is doing it wrong.
     
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  19. PowerSource

    PowerSource Member

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    likely they will use mennekes for ac charging/supercharging only in EU- similar to model s
     
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  20. sjokomelk

    sjokomelk Member

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    The CCS standard doesn't allow for adapters. You have to insert the plug directly into the car. So I'm still hoping that the EU version of Model 3 will have a Combo2 port. *fingers crossed*
     
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