Exactly. Also, it took Apple with its army of programmers about 3 years to get iOS to where it was decent and 5 years I think to include basic things like 'mark all read' on email. Tesla certainly has a lot of work to do on things like the Nav to bring it up to feature parity with even a $200 GPS unit but 6.0 sounds like it is a big step in that direction.
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Suspension can be in "high" at greater speeds in 6.0
- Thread starter byeOpec
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
Exactly. Also, it took Apple with its army of programmers about 3 years to get iOS to where it was decent and 5 years I think to include basic things like 'mark all read' on email. Tesla certainly has a lot of work to do on things like the Nav to bring it up to feature parity with even a $200 GPS unit but 6.0 sounds like it is a big step in that direction.
Uhhh...not so fast. Let's see what we have when we finally get it! Let's see what might be broke in the new update. Personally, my faith in Tesla has been seriously shaken. I will never update indiscriminately again. I will be a diehard holdout until I am MUCH more certain that I am not losing something valuable in the process.Can we all relax now?
Krugerrand
Meow
One way of looking at it, but not what I meant. To elaborate - I don't think it'll ever matter 'how' Tesla goes about doing such a thing in the future. Even if they give a two week heads up that they are disabling a feature for (fill in reason of choice), fully explaining why and what they plan on doing differently and why, there will undoubtedly still be the unhappy vocal faction stating how it's unfair, it's not what they paid for, they don't want it, etc... because that's just how some people roll. They'll very likely have a chance down the road to prove me wrong...or not.
That's very true (in my opinion anyway), but doesn't seem to get the point of johan's post. Someone said we should be paying Tesla for new features if we want a refund when they are taken away. However, as he pointed out, Tesla promised new features pushed to our car when we bought it, so it's not like we are getting something beyond what we were promised (indeed, there is still promised functionality missing -- both hardware and software).
That's not really saying much.
Now if you limited that to Tesla supporters, then it would be an interesting statement... but it would be incorrect, IMO.
I disagree. Tesla is always pissing off someone, whether it's service, sales, or software related. This is a sorry statement about some of the owners, not Tesla itself. In almost every circumstance when owners have been upset at Tesla, I have found more sympathy for Tesla than empathy with the other owners. There is a sense of entitlement among some owners that colors their perceptions and informs their demands. Every quarter, it seems, there is a group of owners who are up in arms over some horrible injustice promulgated by Tesla upon its owners. Watching the drama unfold is certainly amusing.
On the flipside, it's equally amusing to observe what a pair of rose-tinted glasses can look past, as well as how judgmental it can make the wearer against those not rocking a pair.
Unacceptable is a strong word. When a company does something that I consider truly "unacceptable", I divest myself of their products and forgo purchasing from them in the future because I cannot and will not accept their conduct. In this case, I agree that Tesla erred in their handling of this issue. But frankly, I understand that no one is perfect and even the best of people or the best of companies will faceplant some times. I don't like it when Tesla (or any supplier) screws up. But I would refrain from taking too strong a stance on this issue or anything comparable to it. My car would not lower for 2-3 months because Tesla spooked at the impacts. That is not a game-changer.
Mobster
Member
@Johan is correct and makes the more factual/reasonable analysis.
Hopefully "6.0" has the functionality being speculated about on these posts. And it arrives soon.
Mobster
Member
+1 absolutely correct. The references to "universal truth", "horrible injustice" "up in arms" are emotional extremes that are not seen the posts of the folks who have legitimate specific criticisms of Tesla. They come up from the people who seem terrified by criticism of how things are progressing and/or offer alternatives. If this forum is designed just for positive PR and "rose colored" adulation, well, ok.
I have personally gained more from reading about potential problems or issues, in some cases discussion of solutions or what WE might do (like the soft paint - and how others have added some protection like Opticoat) RATHER than the people upset about the criticisms and lashing out with sarcasm. So IMHO it will be nice if the discussions stay open to compliments, as well as criticisms of the car or the company that may have suggestions we don't agree with (big deal), options and opinions we may agree with, and again, some solutions we might adopt ourselves (I have seen a number of issues like this concerning paint, tires, regenerative braking changes, etc.)
As for me, the Tesla is the best "exotic" car I have ever owned (and I have had a bunch), the company is amazing, however there is much room for improvement as with all companies. If this forum is reviewed by decision makers (I believe they do), and they handle the opinions, suggested options, and supporting perceived "facts" as most companies use survey information (they set aside sarcasm and focus on overall consensus of opinions with emphasis on specific suggestions).......there is a good chance influence comes from here to a degree, and we see some of the things we requested. We have heard perceptions of what 6.0 (or whatever it might be called) and now optimistically look forward to when and what it actually does.
Can we all relax now?
Elon and Tesla have made many announcements only to either go silent upon not delivering on said announcements or changing their tune...still don't have lowering again that was taken away its last I checked its no longer January. When Tesla actually follows through on announcements, then you can go harp on naysayers, until then, its just more talk from Tesla.
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Completely disagree. Tesla built up owners expectations. Don't make announcements and not live up to them, simple as that.
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Well said.
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Its questionable as to whether eliminating the lowering at speeds made the car safer. Its 100% fact that eliminating it doesn't eliminate the possibility of a car fire.
Here is something for Brianman, Wormhole, and quite a few others to consider:
One way to parse this is to realize one can patronize Tesla, another auto manufacturer, or Choice C (walk). Let's dismiss #3.
Now, what have other car companies done in similar situations? Answer from my own experience: several times Ford has issued a TSB such that without my knowledge and CERTAINLY without my consent, the next time the F-350 was at the dealer's service center, its chip was re-flashed to alter performance. Each time, fuel economy suffered, as did (per others' respnses on Ford forums) the power curve. Ford's claims have been that it was to (definitely NOT their words!) keep the engine operating properly (ie, not degrade injectors or cylinder heads, and so on).
My take on this is that Ford had sold a product claiming a certain performance...but that, when it realized it would be facing umpteen ga$$llion in warranty work, re-designed already-sold vehicles.
I have no examples other than Ford for this kind of action but, if it can be taken as representative of the auto industry as a whole, where then is your argument with Tesla? I see no difference...other than Tesla's response seems less reprehensible.
One way to parse this is to realize one can patronize Tesla, another auto manufacturer, or Choice C (walk). Let's dismiss #3.
Now, what have other car companies done in similar situations? Answer from my own experience: several times Ford has issued a TSB such that without my knowledge and CERTAINLY without my consent, the next time the F-350 was at the dealer's service center, its chip was re-flashed to alter performance. Each time, fuel economy suffered, as did (per others' respnses on Ford forums) the power curve. Ford's claims have been that it was to (definitely NOT their words!) keep the engine operating properly (ie, not degrade injectors or cylinder heads, and so on).
My take on this is that Ford had sold a product claiming a certain performance...but that, when it realized it would be facing umpteen ga$$llion in warranty work, re-designed already-sold vehicles.
I have no examples other than Ford for this kind of action but, if it can be taken as representative of the auto industry as a whole, where then is your argument with Tesla? I see no difference...other than Tesla's response seems less reprehensible.
This is a great example. Tesla shouldn't do what other automakers do wrong but puts their actions in context. Tesla is under the microscope more than any other automaker on top of it so needs to play the game a little different because of that.
Wait, seriously guys? We go from Tesla does no wrong to "But the other guys do it toooo!"?
Missing the point. We ALL know or at the very least BELIEVE Tesla is a step above the rest. It's likely one of the reasons most of us are owners, and it is one reason we expect more from them. That does NOT at all mean that Tesla is perfect and that if we don't agree with something Tesla does we can't comment on it. As you yourself said Dave, the answer lies in the middle. Tesla doesn't need haters, nor does it need cheerleaders. Honest, constructive feedback goes a long way. Having some enthusiasm sprinkled in can't hurt either.
AnOutsider covered it well but I can't resist...
Example:
My friend is generally a good guy. That's part of why I hang out with him. Last week he decided that pink parachute pants were his new thing. I gave him my honest opinion. This doesn't mean I hate my friend. This also doesn't mean that I care whether other people that I interact with wear pink parachute pants.
Example:
My friend is generally a good guy. That's part of why I hang out with him. Last week he decided that pink parachute pants were his new thing. I gave him my honest opinion. This doesn't mean I hate my friend. This also doesn't mean that I care whether other people that I interact with wear pink parachute pants.
I agree with you. I'm just saying that most of the service people at Tesla come from the old car culture. All of the service people with experience must have come from Ford, Mercedes....etc so human nature is what it is. Doesn't justify it but might help explain it.
They need to be better than all the rest to survive and can't fall into the old ways of doing things.
We should point out where they are wrong but just as some seem to think Tesla can do no wrong others think everything mistake they make is the worst thing ever done by a car company and no one has done it before.
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