Watched a red new MS drive past me yesterday, it looked mean from the back with the wider fenders and all that rubber.
P85+ was staggered if I recall correctly but not that wide, maybe 265s in the back?
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Suspension / handling going from P85D+ to refresh long range S
- Thread starter danp
- Start date
P85+ was staggered if I recall correctly but not that wide, maybe 265s in the back?
Now THAT's what I wanted to hear.
Thanks, would love to take you up on that but I'm about 2000 miles away.
I had, and still have available, a 2014 P85DL+ for 80k miles and now moved up to Plaid. The refresh is definitely not the floaty loose feeling that you had on post + suspensions, and especially not on the older pre 2014 suspensions.
First the skidpad numbers are much much better on the refresh ā really quite amazing beating the Corvette. See chart below from the Car and Driver December article. I suspect the LR has the same suspension but different tires.
For road feeling and feedback, the refresh is softer than the + or Model 3, but much much better than the old Model S non+.
I think there is zero chance you will be unhappy with the move from the P85DL to the Refresh. IF you are really worried about handling you might consider the Plaid to get track mode and be able to fine tune things with that, although I havenāt even used my track mode at all yet.
@bhzmark Thanks, those comparisons are super helpful!
Wife and I have a January 2013 P85 (soft air suspension) and 2021 M3P, and we've driven many S over the years, including coil spring originals, P85+, P85D+, P100DL, lots of 75s and 90s, etc. Big range of suspension tuning over the years, and I know exactly what you mean by loose and floaty on the pre-plus and post-plus suspensions. Last year we were back and forth on ordering a new S but couldn't pull the trigger without a test drive.
The yoke was part our trepidation of course but we also wanted more certainty about how the suspension handles and feels. Early descriptions here seemed all over the map - some said very smooth, some said too stiff and bouncy (regardless of adjustment settings). It wasn't clear what everyone's baseline was. Having direct comparisons with multiple older S suspensions is really useful!
Of course it doesn't help us that my favorite S suspension was the P85+, while my wife's favorite was the P100DL floaty tank. But Plaid Track Mode might allow for the range of adjustment needed to make us both happy.
(Though I do wish we could get S Track Mode without paying up for the Plaid, we really don't need Plaid power, but I know it'll never happen...Tesla will only release Track Mode for the top performance model.)
Wife and I have a January 2013 P85 (soft air suspension) and 2021 M3P, and we've driven many S over the years, including coil spring originals, P85+, P85D+, P100DL, lots of 75s and 90s, etc. Big range of suspension tuning over the years, and I know exactly what you mean by loose and floaty on the pre-plus and post-plus suspensions. Last year we were back and forth on ordering a new S but couldn't pull the trigger without a test drive.
The yoke was part our trepidation of course but we also wanted more certainty about how the suspension handles and feels. Early descriptions here seemed all over the map - some said very smooth, some said too stiff and bouncy (regardless of adjustment settings). It wasn't clear what everyone's baseline was. Having direct comparisons with multiple older S suspensions is really useful!
Of course it doesn't help us that my favorite S suspension was the P85+, while my wife's favorite was the P100DL floaty tank. But Plaid Track Mode might allow for the range of adjustment needed to make us both happy.
(Though I do wish we could get S Track Mode without paying up for the Plaid, we really don't need Plaid power, but I know it'll never happen...Tesla will only release Track Mode for the top performance model.)@bhzmark Thanks, those comparisons are super helpful!
Wife and I have a January 2013 P85 (soft air suspension) and 2021 M3P, and we've driven many S over the years, including coil spring originals, P85+, P85D+, P100DL, lots of 75s and 90s, etc. Big range of suspension tuning over the years, and I know exactly what you mean by loose and floaty on the pre-plus and post-plus suspensions. Last year we were back and forth on ordering a new S but couldn't pull the trigger without a test drive.
The yoke was part our trepidation of course but we also wanted more certainty about how the suspension handles and feels. Early descriptions here seemed all over the map - some said very smooth, some said too stiff and bouncy (regardless of adjustment settings). It wasn't clear what everyone's baseline was. Having direct comparisons with multiple older S suspensions is really useful!
Of course it doesn't help us that my favorite S suspension was the P85+, while my wife's favorite was the P100DL floaty tank. But Plaid Track Mode might allow for the range of adjustment needed to make us both happy.
I had 3 P85+ loaners. The suspension wasn't as firm as the P85D+ but was PERFECT for street driving.
@sorka I remember thinking the same! When the Plus option was announced for $5k I thought it was overpriced and I assumed the suspension changes weren't much, I figured it was mostly for the wider wheels. Then when I got a P85+ loaner I was pretty impressed, it felt like Tesla really went to town stiffening it up, with firmer bushings in addition to stiffer springs and better damping. It came together in a really good way, much more taught and responsive but still plenty comfortable and streetable by my standards.
When the P85D came out and had similar suspension tuning I figured Tesla was sticking with that for all future S - a good thing in my book. Then it turned out no, they later went back to soft and floaty...
My strongest memory of the P85D though was when the rear motor failed on me...
When the P85D came out and had similar suspension tuning I figured Tesla was sticking with that for all future S - a good thing in my book. Then it turned out no, they later went back to soft and floaty...
My strongest memory of the P85D though was when the rear motor failed on me...
That is exactly the info and perspective I was looking for, thanks!! And that spider chart really tells a story. The MS has come a long way from being a one trick pony, for sure.
If I lived in CA or somewhere else with windy mountain roads all over the place, I'd be tempted to go for the Plaid for the extra joy and track mode, but here in the Midwest it's all straight roads so I just have the LR on order. But I still get the occasional urge to just say screw rational thinking and just go for the Plaid...
@danp If your roads are straight, get the Plaid for its power.
If your roads are twisty, get the Plaid for its Track Mode.
See where this is going?
it's going to an extra $35K missing from my bank account, that's where. but you can't really argue with that reasoning!
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lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
I have a couple of corners I always play on each morning on the way to the shop. The P90DL with early + suspension had that ole M5 locked down feeling about it that I loved. HOWEVER, one of the corners in particular has shown me just how far Tesla has come. It is a 40 mph right hander with some dip at the inner apex. My old + used to kick up on the inside from lack of rebound. It was really hard to get entry speed and power just right to control that kick and not tear up rims on curbs.
Fast forward to the refresh suspension and it just soaks up the bumps while keeping the car stable. Tesla MUST have changed the roll center with the new suspension to (1) get the mechanical grip up so much and (2) not have so much kick from the rear of the car. It really works surprisingly well and, as others have pointed out, the lateral grip is something to behold in comparison to other cars. ICE folks like to poo poo Teslas but they started off with a surprisingly good car and they continue to polish the product at an alarming rate. My advice to the other manufacturers, less marketing and more engineering.
I've also had a lot of time to swap between my wife's LR and my Plaid. I realize I'm going to get flamed for this (and likely rightly so ) but the LR is enough. I run both cars in max available power mode. The LR throttle is very easy to manage. The Plaid takes incredibly small movements to manage power as a daily driver and is a bit tough on the ankle (old man itis).
Knowing what I know today, I'd probably have purchased a LR, put lowering links on it and took as much weight off per corner as possible. I use TSW 20" rims in a square configuration on my Plaid (10" width). I would use the extra savings on the LR to perhaps go even lighter on the rims and definitely put on aluminum hat reduced weight rotors on all four corners. My wife even comments on how good my Plaid feels just driving it around normally. Thump is dramatically reduced when encountering bumps and the lower CoG makes the car feel better everywhere.
Fast forward to the refresh suspension and it just soaks up the bumps while keeping the car stable. Tesla MUST have changed the roll center with the new suspension to (1) get the mechanical grip up so much and (2) not have so much kick from the rear of the car. It really works surprisingly well and, as others have pointed out, the lateral grip is something to behold in comparison to other cars. ICE folks like to poo poo Teslas but they started off with a surprisingly good car and they continue to polish the product at an alarming rate. My advice to the other manufacturers, less marketing and more engineering.
I've also had a lot of time to swap between my wife's LR and my Plaid. I realize I'm going to get flamed for this (and likely rightly so
) but the LR is enough. I run both cars in max available power mode. The LR throttle is very easy to manage. The Plaid takes incredibly small movements to manage power as a daily driver and is a bit tough on the ankle (old man itis).Knowing what I know today, I'd probably have purchased a LR, put lowering links on it and took as much weight off per corner as possible. I use TSW 20" rims in a square configuration on my Plaid (10" width). I would use the extra savings on the LR to perhaps go even lighter on the rims and definitely put on aluminum hat reduced weight rotors on all four corners. My wife even comments on how good my Plaid feels just driving it around normally. Thump is dramatically reduced when encountering bumps and the lower CoG makes the car feel better everywhere.
StoicKiwi
Member
Thanks for raising this question and getting all of these great responses! I'm in the same boat as you and am deciding what to do.
I have a very early P85D+ (11/2014 build) and really like almost everything about it. Once my wife got a Y, I started seeing all of the new features with every update, sentry mode, etc and really started getting the itch to upgrade.
I haven't decided if I want to go with a Cybertruck, an S Plaid/LR, or keep the P85D+ yet. There is just so much personality in my S that it's hard to decide (if that makes sense). Free Supercharging and cellular is a plus, but I also really like the odd bolstered rear seats, the open center console, and after upgrading to MCU2, it just makes it all the harder to decide.
All that to say, thank you for everyone for the comparisons of the different models/trims, it is super helpful!
BrokerDon
Active Member
Thanks for posting your P85D+ to Refresh LR or Plaid question. I've got a 2015 P85D+ too which still has 15 months remaining on my 4-year Tesla Extended Warranty so doing my recon too. The longer I wait the more chance I can get an Inventory LR or Plaid and newer features too (like FSD, headlights, rear facia). However it is really going to be hard to let go of my P85D+ since the Plus Suspension was perfect coming from my previous 2006 Corvette Z06 and nothing like the "floaty" P100D I drove for a day. I upgraded my P85D+ with MCU2 and Arachnid wheels from Turbines which made it handle even better (much less rotating mass). LOVE IT !!!
Sorry if I missed this but what was your change to the Plaid? Just the lighter TSW wheels?
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Wheels (-10 lb per corner) and lowered about .6". Given the difference in the two cars, I'm strongly considering all four rotors for weight reasons. I've come to live with brake performance and do not feel a need to change to improve it.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
The braking depiction sums up my assessment of the brakes. The M5 CS is depicted as the Plaid's only equal on stopping distance. They feel like crap (on the Plaid) but work ok for single use emergency braking. Add that to never really using them given the PM motors clock the car to a stop (and the hill hold automatically sets) and I rarely interface with the brakes on the car. When I do, I know I have one bite at the apple to haul the car down from stupendous speeds.
Check out the road holding to weight cross over between BMW M5 CS and Plaid!!! I was a long time M driver before I test drove my first MS. After taking delivery of the first car, I stopped by the BMW store to take my long time friend and BMW sales guy for a ride (x-Formula Atlantic champ) and, when we were back, all he said was "I understand". Shame on you BMW
Now if the car was going to see the track like others on this forum, that would be a completely different matter. I'd be buddying up with MP
That Carmine guy on youtube who tracks his Plaid has a recent video saying that the software updates, and especially track mode, greatly improved the Plaid brakes. I recall early on that the Plaid brakes coming down hard from ~130mph were not great. With winter I haven't tested recently to look for any improvements. will do in March/April.The braking depiction sums up my assessment of the brakes. The M5 CS is depicted as the Plaid's only equal on stopping distance. They feel like crap (on the Plaid) but work ok for single use emergency braking. Add that to never really using them given the PM motors clock the car to a stop (and the hill hold automatically sets) and I rarely interface with the brakes on the car. When I do, I know I have one bite at the apple to haul the car down from stupendous speeds.
Check out the road holding to weight cross over between BMW M5 CS and Plaid!!! I was a long time M driver before I test drove my first MS. After taking delivery of the first car, I stopped by the BMW store to take my long time friend and BMW sales guy for a ride (x-Formula Atlantic champ) and, when we were back, all he said was "I understand". Shame on you BMW
Now if the car was going to see the track like others on this forum, that would be a completely different matter. I'd be buddying up with MP
I feel nostalgic about my P85DL+. I have no real reason to keep it but still don't want to sell it for only ~40k when I know it is perfect and running great and still some life left on extended warranty (which is turning out not to have been worth it -- should have invested the warranty money in more TSLA of course).
BrokerDon
Active Member
Same mistake I made so far but I bought AAPL stock a couple of times before the huge run up in price so no FOMO missing TSLA. I still have 15 months of my 4-year extended warranty remaining. Hope to recover some of that in warranty claims but our P85D+ has been the most reliable car I've ever owned I'm not sure I'll get my money's worth.
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