Suspension Problem on Model S

[gpcordaro]

This is the last post I will make on this subject. Tesla and I have come to terms. I am not at liberty to discuss the terms, I can only say that I am satisfied.
I will not cancel my model 3 reservations and I will continue to be a Tesla Ambassador.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Nor is there a limitation re: "off road" operation. On the contrary, Tesla shows how a rural postal carrier is using a Model S in such operation every day here:

A mail man in Minnesota has been using a Tesla Model S to deliver mail for 2 years

 

[Oyvind.H]

"Teslabjorn" has just passed 230.000km with his 2013 Model S. Mostly on mediocre Norwegian roads.
As far as I know he hasn`t had any suspension parts break while driving. Our roads are often salted/sprayed with salt water and have lots of potholes. If this was a widespread problems with all early cars Bjorns undercarriage should`ve broken several times by now.

That said - I would prefer Tesla fixing problems like this one without discussions. Undercarriage parts breaking on such a new car sounds strange. Never heard of anyone having parts like this break on a 2-3 year old car. 15-20 years absolutely, but not "new" cars.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Concur with your thoughts from Oslo, with the exception of "widespread."

Even one of these failures should be ringing alarm bells at Tesla HQ. The fact that another poster here reported that his control arms were replaced after a Service Center parking lot test drive suggests that this is a well known problem for Tesla, and that some Service Centers are being proactive. The problem is: that is not enough.

As I stated earlier, someone is highly likely to die from this problem. If one car has the problem, the likelihood of others having it is quite high, especially as the fleet ages.

**Anecdotal FYI for Tesla HQ: A few years post-introduction, Lexus found and purchased the highest mileage LS400's in the world, even if they weren't for sale, by making the owners offers they couldn't refuse, something like, "We like your car. Here's a new one, if you'd like, at no cost to you." Then they returned the high-mileage cars to Japan for complete disassembly and inspection of every single part . . . there's a lesson there that Tesla could learn from.**

In the interim, and at a minimum, I'd suggest immediate inspection and data logging of every high-mileage MS in "salt" states ASAP. They really need to get ahead of this problem as it's a safety-critical part.

Come on Tesla, you know better--please retrain or remove the offending mid-level executive(s). Glad the OP's situation was resolved, but it should have never had to get to this level and this was grossly unacceptable treatment for the OP. We can only surmise the OP has been forced to sign a non-disclosure agreement for a full 100% Goodwill repair, which is the absolute minimum that should have been done here.

Remember: Mistakes can happen, but it's what a company does afterwards that makes Customers for Life.

 

[neroden]

I checked my front suspension control arms while the wheels were off. They weren't in terrible shape... but they were rusting. They are going to fail sooner than they ought to: this is a component which should not fail for 100,000 miles, but it's going to.

My tire-changing mechanic said that the design has a trough in the top which causes road dirt to accumulate and sit permanently inside the control arm; it was absolutely full of dirt. *In Pennsylvania or New York in the winter, this road dirt is basically 100% salt*.

So the design is collecting salt and storing it in a trough in a steel part. This is going to cause the arms to self-destruct eventually. My mechanic said the arm should have been designed with a different physical shape so that there was no trough for the dirt to sit and fester in (e.g. convex on the top so dirt would slide off). He also suggested that if it were aluminum it probably wouldn't corrode. or at least not nearly as fast.

My ball joints were OK and the boot was in place.

I'll be rechecking this part yearly until Tesla redesigns it. Tesla should do a redesign. This part becomes unsafe over time.

It's basically the only part of the car which is rusting, which says pretty great things about the rest of the car, honestly. But it shouldn't be rusting away at this rate.

 

[HyperMiler]

Here is the situation you describe installed. Corrosion protection of the black steel on the demo is not 100% to begin with... . But that is only the demo, right?

 

[Laserbrain]

This is the last post I will make on this subject. Tesla and I have come to terms. I am not at liberty to discuss the terms, I can only say that I am satisfied.
I will not cancel my model 3 reservations and I will continue to be a Tesla Ambassador.

Good to hear, that it came to a good end.

"Teslabjorn" has just passed 230.000km with his 2013 Model S. Mostly on mediocre Norwegian roads.
As far as I know he hasn`t had any suspension parts break while driving. Our roads are often salted/sprayed with salt water and have lots of potholes. If this was a widespread problems with all early cars Bjorns undercarriage should`ve broken several times by now.

What if it is not a widespread problem but affects only 1% or 0.1%? BTW, check post #40 from Dennis87 (from Norway).

All this does remind me a little bit of a movie:

Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Business woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
Narrator: You wouldn't believe.
Business woman on plane: Which car company do you work for?
Narrator: A major one.

 

[Az_Rael]

As for the repeated, "Do you have the extended warranty?" questions--please stop them. Suspension components aren't covered by the ESA, IIRC. (And please post if I'm wrong this.)

Shock absorbers and suspension alignments are the only suspension parts excluded by the latest extended warranty. https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/d...ments/na_tesla_warranty_plan_agreement_ot.pdf

I would assume control arms are covered under that language. So the question was relevant in regards to whether Tesla would pay for repairs (but not relevant as to why the parts failed so early)

I never did get an answer whether or not he was having the car serviced by Tesla. I would also be very concerned if this was something they missed during their $600 12,500 mile inspections. Again, it wouldn't have stopped the problem for the OP, but I would HOPE it would have been found before it got dangerous.

 

[Spidy]

"Teslabjorn" has just passed 230.000km with his 2013 Model S. Mostly on mediocre Norwegian roads.
As far as I know he hasn`t had any suspension parts break while driving. Our roads are often salted/sprayed with salt water and have lots of potholes. If this was a widespread problems with all early cars Bjorns undercarriage should`ve broken several times by now.

That said - I would prefer Tesla fixing problems like this one without discussions. Undercarriage parts breaking on such a new car sounds strange. Never heard of anyone having parts like this break on a 2-3 year old car. 15-20 years absolutely, but not "new" cars.

Björn had this done. Not sure if that's the same part / ball joint.

 

[HyperMiler]

I never did get an answer whether or not he was having the car serviced by Tesla. I would also be very concerned if this was something they missed during their $600 12,500 mile inspections. Again, it wouldn't have stopped the problem for the OP, but I would HOPE it would have been found before it got dangerous.

+1

Steering ball joints on the links wear out on heavy cars all the time and need to be exchanged on most cars at some point. Regular service should detect and address this. If this was no off road use, it would be interesting indeed to find out why this did not show up as loose/too much play during service.

 

[Newscutter]

I checked my front suspension control arms while the wheels were off. ... the design has a trough in the top which causes road dirt to accumulate and sit permanently inside the control arm; it was absolutely full of dirt. *In Pennsylvania or New York in the winter, this road dirt is basically 100% salt*.

So the design is collecting salt and storing it in a trough in a steel part. This is going to cause the arms to self-destruct eventually.

Would love to have a clear pic of this design issue-- maybe visible on the store display chassis? (Don't have one here in Pittsburgh yet)

Also-- what would be an effective temporary solution? I'll have to look at mine, but would some sort of Rustoleum be viable w/o so-molesting the part that it would cause warranty claim problems down the road?

Note-- I am currently getting a very intermittent clunk on left turns from the right front (I think) so will be sending to service soon as I verify it is repeatable (I hate getting the "could not duplicate" notation-- from any mechanic/make). 2014, 30k miles, VIN 40xxx
All four tires recently replaced at service center (about 1000 miles ago)-- I'd mentioned my suspicions regarding noise but was not addressed. You'd think anything dire would have been impossible to miss when unmounting/mounting wheels with the car elevated, right?

 

[RDoc]

+1

Steering ball joints on the links wear out on heavy cars all the time and need to be exchanged on most cars at some point. Regular service should detect and address this. If this was no off road use, it would be interesting indeed to find out why this did not show up as loose/too much play during service.

I'm sure ball joints do need replacing on some cars eventually, but I've never had one replaced on any car I've owned, including a couple of minivans.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Thank you, Moderators, for banning that *insert noun* who did nothing but fan the flames of fear with random photos from the internet. Lots of bad juju. I contacted my service center and my control arm bolts updated in late 2013, which were part of the service bulletin described upthread. My most recent annual service was performed in March, after 43,000 miles and 2 ½ years in service. All suspension components are inspected in great detail during the annual service and they found nothing. In fact, I still have my rear camber bolts installed and service says they are rock solid.

Judging by Tesla's previous actions, if this were truly an issue to be concerned about, Tesla would have issued a proactive repair along the lines of the "power switch update" that many have received. It's easy to link to a bunch of photos off the internet and feign concern over nothing. Attempting to connect random dots on the internet usually leads to a wrong conclusion.

 

[gpcordaro]

BANNING LOOSEWHEEL IS A FORM OF CENSORSHIP. It is a bad decision. Time will reveal if this is a true problem of a one off.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

BANNING LOOSEWHEEL IS A FORM OF CENSORSHIP. It is a bad decision. Time will reveal if this is a true problem of a one off.

No, it wasn't a mistake. The person is someone who has filed a bunch fake NTSB reports.

He goes by "Keef" on other forums and has been spreading rumors for some time.

To add, Lucille and Loosewheel were the same person...

 

[brianman]

This is the last post I will make on this subject. Tesla and I have come to terms. I am not at liberty to discuss the terms, I can only say that I am satisfied.
I will not cancel my model 3 reservations and I will continue to be a Tesla Ambassador.

Glad to hear it. Especially the underlined.

 

[MassModel3]

BANNING LOOSEWHEEL IS A FORM OF CENSORSHIP. It is a bad decision. Time will reveal if this is a true problem of a one off.

He made some valid points along the way, but most of what he did was attempt to discredit Tesla on multiple levels without valid data to back up his claims. Granted, his stance was occasionally thought provoking, but more often than not it was nothing more than an attempt to spread fear and hate. He had a very one-sided argument and refused to listen to reason. He accused owners of being negligent for not reporting every little incident to federal government agencies, then he told us we're all negligent after the fact for any damages done to other people simply because we allowed Tesla to fix our cars and we didn't raise a stink about it.

Sorry, but most of what he said was downright irritating, obnoxious, and leaps proofless of speculation. He was a bad seed trying to take root in these forums and I for one am glad he's gone. At least until he makes up another account and it begins again. He seems like a smart guy whose simply a closed-minded gearhead who simply won't listen to reason.

I'm glad your situation worked out to your satisfaction and it's a shame you had to go through so much to get there, but it's also sad that you drank the Kool-aid he was dishing out.

BTW, all caps is tantamount to shouting, and it's not necessary. We're reading your post. Yelling isn't necessary.

 

[woof]

Doesn't matter what he/she/it said. Most likely banned for sock puppeting.

 

[JRP3]

He was a known troll previously banned for trolling, so of course he needed to be banned again, and should be every single time he pops back up. Seriously, he's insane, just look up his various other names, Keef Wivanef and Ralph Vader.

 

[3mp_kwh]

Wow. That ball looks to have come out of its socket, in motion. Not surprised a big vertical shock would have been what popped it, but also think people shouldn't be too concerned about these coming out on smooth roads, under lateral load. I've seen joints sheer in racing contexts. That's not what we're looking at here. I forget if there is even a zerk (grease) fitting above these joints, but its obvious this one needed lube. If it came out, I also can't imagine the car's ride wasn't a lot noisier than new? Sometimes these joints are tested at 12 and 6, on the tire. The vertical play, to a mechanic, if tested, would have been a dead giveaway.

As these cars age (and go through winters) we are going to find their "achilles heels". If the upper ball joints weren't zerk'd, no doubt this will be one. What's tough on owners of older Model S cars, is you can't go buy from a variety of arms and joints, from different places. It would be up to Tesla to supply either the whole arm, or make a press fit replacement for the joint assembly (Mercedes part?). I think the yellow arrow, in this link is pointing to where yours separated.
2012 Tesla Model S Signature Performance Suspension Walkaround