JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Yeah, I'd request that you post their findings here, instead of just telling the forum what they said.
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Yeah, I'd request that you post their findings here, instead of just telling the forum what they said.
MassModel3
Member
Wow, good to know. So you actually sent them your old parts? And they tested them so quickly?
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
@gpcordaro I'm going to, again, request that you provide evidence to substantiate the response you claim you received from the NHTSA.
The OP has not filed a complaint with the NHTSA. The only complaints for 2013 Teslas are made by that whack job who has been making stuff up. It's unfortunate because if there really is a problem, it's being drowned out by spam.
You can believe what you want. I don't lie, but you can live in denial.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Uh, so then post the requested information...so I don't have to "believe" one way or the other...
Or are you acknowledging that you are currently lying to us?
Wait, so you just took the time to reply but no link to the NHTSA complaint or their response to you???????
MassModel3
Member
Not taking sides here, but gpcordaro was simply passing on a bit of personal experience by stating what happened in his case -- he reported something to someone and they responded.
I understand wanting proof that this ever took place, but the whole "show us or it never happened" doesn't always have to apply. Believe what you choose, but it's not necessary to say or imply that people are lying just because that someone hasn't met your burden of proof. We go by supposition and hearsay all the time on this forum. It's just what we do...
That being said, I really am curious the details of this NHTSA case. If they did, in fact, receive the complaint, receive the parts, test the parts, find fault in the parts, and report on those findings this quickly, it would be extremely informative and we really would like to see, at least in part, the results of their findings. Please?
I understand wanting proof that this ever took place, but the whole "show us or it never happened" doesn't always have to apply. Believe what you choose, but it's not necessary to say or imply that people are lying just because that someone hasn't met your burden of proof. We go by supposition and hearsay all the time on this forum. It's just what we do...
That being said, I really am curious the details of this NHTSA case. If they did, in fact, receive the complaint, receive the parts, test the parts, find fault in the parts, and report on those findings this quickly, it would be extremely informative and we really would like to see, at least in part, the results of their findings. Please?
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Sorry, but the accusations, and the fact that he has deemed it a serious threat/risk to owners requires that he show proof. There have been WAY too many fraudulent similar claims made for me to assume anything else. One of the main purpetrators showed up in this thread, and OP is apparently siding with this person.
So, I'll continue to request evidence...and, yes, assume he's lying until he provides it. I'll be more than happy to apologize later, but I've pretty much had my fill of these unsubstantiated and malicious accusations .
I would guess this is his complaint file:
I would guess that knowing the file number would allow anyone to pull up the results once they are done with the investigation, but I do hope the OP comes back and posts the findings
Yes, the joints were not good and we are looking for more examples to test.. We are in contact with Tesla requesting more information on these parts and others in the suspension. I will keep you updated …
Thanks,
Jeffrey M. Price
Defect Investigator
Defects Assessment Division
Office of Defects Investigation
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
NVS-211 Rm 48-218
1200 New Jersey Avenue. SE.
Washington D.C 20590
Phone - 202-366-5410
Fax - 202-366-1767
From: Pete Cordaro [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 10:45 AM
To: Price, Jeffrey (NHTSA)
Subject: RE: Quotation from Tesla Service Cleveland-Lyndhurst on 5/5/2016
Mr. Price,
Any results on the testing of my worn ball joints?
Pete Cordaro
C.R.H. Catering Company
1600 Morrell Ave
Connellsville, Pa 15425
724 628-8100 ext 315
724 322-2136 cell
Yes, the joints were not good and we are looking for more examples to test.. We are in contact with Tesla requesting more information on these parts and others in the suspension. I will keep you updated …
Thanks,
Jeffrey M. Price
Defect Investigator
Defects Assessment Division
Office of Defects Investigation
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
NVS-211 Rm 48-218
1200 New Jersey Avenue. SE.
Washington D.C 20590
Phone - 202-366-5410
Fax - 202-366-1767
From: Pete Cordaro [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 10:45 AM
To: Price, Jeffrey (NHTSA)
Subject: RE: Quotation from Tesla Service Cleveland-Lyndhurst on 5/5/2016
Mr. Price,
Any results on the testing of my worn ball joints?
Pete Cordaro
C.R.H. Catering Company
1600 Morrell Ave
Connellsville, Pa 15425
724 628-8100 ext 315
724 322-2136 cell
Thanks,
Jeffrey M. Price
Defect Investigator
Defects Assessment Division
Office of Defects Investigation
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
NVS-211 Rm 48-218
1200 New Jersey Avenue. SE.
Washington D.C 20590
Phone - 202-366-5410
Fax - 202-366-1767
From: Pete Cordaro [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 10:45 AM
To: Price, Jeffrey (NHTSA)
Subject: RE: Quotation from Tesla Service Cleveland-Lyndhurst on 5/5/2016
Mr. Price,
Any results on the testing of my worn ball joints?
Pete Cordaro
C.R.H. Catering Company
1600 Morrell Ave
Connellsville, Pa 15425
724 628-8100 ext 315
724 322-2136 cell
Yes, the joints were not good and we are looking for more examples to test.. We are in contact with Tesla requesting more information on these parts and others in the suspension. I will keep you updated …
Thanks,
Jeffrey M. Price
Defect Investigator
Defects Assessment Division
Office of Defects Investigation
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
NVS-211 Rm 48-218
1200 New Jersey Avenue. SE.
Washington D.C 20590
Phone - 202-366-5410
Fax - 202-366-1767
From: Pete Cordaro [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 10:45 AM
To: Price, Jeffrey (NHTSA)
Subject: RE: Quotation from Tesla Service Cleveland-Lyndhurst on 5/5/2016
Mr. Price,
Any results on the testing of my worn ball joints?
Pete Cordaro
C.R.H. Catering Company
1600 Morrell Ave
Connellsville, Pa 15425
724 628-8100 ext 315
724 322-2136 cell
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Well, we know the joints weren't "good." However, the investigation has not been completed. I do not see anywhere that he described them as "poor quality."
Thanks for finally providing the information requested.
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I just received this email from Mr. Price. I will not comment on this subject again until the NHTSA finding become final.
Pete, I got this note today. We are looking at this issue but have not made any determination on defect , quality, or premature failure. We do not know the reason for your part failures yet so please keep the information confidential.
Thanks,
Jeffrey M. Price
Defect Investigator
Defects Assessment Division
Office of Defects Investigation
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
NVS-211 Rm 48-218
1200 New Jersey Avenue. SE.
Washington D.C 20590
Phone - 202-366-5410
Fax - 202-366-1767
From: Redacted
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 4:19 PM
To: Price, Jeffrey (NHTSA)
Subject: Concerning an on-going investigation NHTSA ID# 10862066
Mr. Price,
A Mr. Pete Cordaro has stated that the NHTSA determined that the ball-joints on his 2013 Tesla Model S were of poor quality, and failed prematurely. I would request some elucidation on this subject, since many fraudulent claims have been made concerning the suspension issues on the Model S.
Specifically, do you agree with Mr. Cordaro's assessment that you have found the ball-joints to be of poor quality, and do you agree with him stating so in a public forum?
Thank you for your time.
Regards,
Redacted
Pete, I got this note today. We are looking at this issue but have not made any determination on defect , quality, or premature failure. We do not know the reason for your part failures yet so please keep the information confidential.
Thanks,
Jeffrey M. Price
Defect Investigator
Defects Assessment Division
Office of Defects Investigation
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
NVS-211 Rm 48-218
1200 New Jersey Avenue. SE.
Washington D.C 20590
Phone - 202-366-5410
Fax - 202-366-1767
From: Redacted
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 4:19 PM
To: Price, Jeffrey (NHTSA)
Subject: Concerning an on-going investigation NHTSA ID# 10862066
Mr. Price,
A Mr. Pete Cordaro has stated that the NHTSA determined that the ball-joints on his 2013 Tesla Model S were of poor quality, and failed prematurely. I would request some elucidation on this subject, since many fraudulent claims have been made concerning the suspension issues on the Model S.
Specifically, do you agree with Mr. Cordaro's assessment that you have found the ball-joints to be of poor quality, and do you agree with him stating so in a public forum?
Thank you for your time.
Regards,
Redacted
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I do because I have nothing to hide. This is about public safety.
Read this............
Tesla Suspension Breakage: It's Not The Crime, It's The Coverup - DailyKanban
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
*shakes head*
You really don't seem to understand anything about the sources you are clinging to for your information.
It is not okay to provide false information, simply because you believe in your heart of hearts that you are correct. None.
You assume wrong. You have to prove the lie before calling someone a liar.
The amount of disrespect coming from you is beyond belief.
In many industries counterfeit parts from China are a big problem. Alaska Airlines lost an MD-80 off Los Angeles to a counterfeit part in the horizontal tail control. I'm right now working on a project to test for counterfeit electronic parts. Some of the top monitor manufacturers in the world got hit with a bunch of counterfeit capacitors that caused monitors to fail after about a year. I had an NEC monitor go out because of this problem. I was able to fix it by replacing the suspect capacitors.
Tesla may have bought a batch of ball joints that had some counterfeits included and neither Tesla nor the supplier who sold them to Tesla knew. The cons in China go to great lengths to coverup the shady sources. If it was a counterfeit, chances are there are other cars built about the same time out there with the same low quality part.
It's also very possible the guy making the steel for the ball joints had a bad day and got the mix wrong, or there was some problem with cooling the caused unusually large crystals to form or some other defect that only affected a few ball joints. It's impossible to say without more data. The NHTSA didn't say what the defects actually were, he just indicated they hadn't seen any others with the same problem but they were looking for more to test.
Tesla has shown to be fairly proactive when they have discovered solid evidence there was a problem that appeared to be more than just a one off or a final assembly problem. Especially safety related. If more questionable ball joints show up, they will probably do a recall.
Tesla may have bought a batch of ball joints that had some counterfeits included and neither Tesla nor the supplier who sold them to Tesla knew. The cons in China go to great lengths to coverup the shady sources. If it was a counterfeit, chances are there are other cars built about the same time out there with the same low quality part.
It's also very possible the guy making the steel for the ball joints had a bad day and got the mix wrong, or there was some problem with cooling the caused unusually large crystals to form or some other defect that only affected a few ball joints. It's impossible to say without more data. The NHTSA didn't say what the defects actually were, he just indicated they hadn't seen any others with the same problem but they were looking for more to test.
Tesla has shown to be fairly proactive when they have discovered solid evidence there was a problem that appeared to be more than just a one off or a final assembly problem. Especially safety related. If more questionable ball joints show up, they will probably do a recall.
I did not compile this below. it was sent to me in an email. It was sent to Mr. Price at NHTSA.
Some other links regarding this issue. Hard to separate reality vs. noise when looking online. I trust the NHTSA has experts who can evaluate these potentially life threatening Tesla suspensions.
"There is widespread evidence of defective Tesla suspensions, causing at least two deaths and unknown number of injuries. Specifically there seem to be widespread reports of ball joints separating their control arms in Tesla vehicles, causing the wheels to detach while the car is moving at speed. Numerous injuries and up to five deaths have been reported. Tesla seems to be denying or playing down the problems and has not issued a recall. At first I thought this sounded ridiculous, but if you search through the many links below, there seems to be overwhelming evidence supporting this thesis.
Wheel detachment while driving causes the car to become incredibly dangerous and swerve out of control. And indeed, there are two recent reports of seemingly non-suicidal drivers who mysteriously drove their Teslas off cliffs to their deaths in the last 18 months. Coincidence? Or the result of suspension failure and wheel detachment? Any car expert will confirm that ball joints separating from control arms in a car’s suspension, can result in a life-threatening situation due to wheels coming off.
Harmed parties would include: (i) parties who have actually suffered injury or death due to wheel detachment while driving, and (ii) all vehicle owners who may suffer extra depreciation or greater risk of future injury/death from wheel detachment while driving.
A guy going by the made-up name “Keef Wivaneff” has compiled ~150 pictures of damaged/totaled Teslas on flickr.com. There seems to be a very high incidence of wheels snapping/falling off. Pictures appear authentic. Hard to believe he photoshopped 150 pictures:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136377865@N05/
Pete Cordaro, a Tesla owner, age 61 in Connorsville, Pennsylvania, recently complains of the suspension problem I mention above, documenting in writing with pictures. According to him, Tesla told him it was “normal wear and tear” to have this problem even though it can result in wheels falling off:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/suspension-problem-on-model-s.69204/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgdKZMlzQog
“Tesla Model S Plunges Off Cliff, Catches Fire, Fatality Reported” in Malibu, California, June 25, 2015. Successful guy who seems to be loved by all, no evidence of depression:
http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-plunges-cliff-catches-fire-fatality-reported/
http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20150623/man-who-died-in-fiery-malibu-canyon-crash-of-tesla-is-53-year-old-from-calabasas
Marin Country man dies when Tesla plunges off cliff, December 30, 2014. No evidence of depression:
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/3318773-181/marin-county-driver-who-died?gallery=3314901&artslide=0
TeslaMotors.com owners complaining in 2013 of problem mentioned above, and Tesla downplaying the problem:
https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/model-s-pulls-left-please-read
TeslaMotors.com in 2014 acknowledging there is a service bulletin regarding possible problems with suspension bolts, but seemingly downplaying the problem:
https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/service-bulletin-replace-4-lower-control-arms
TeslaMotors.com in 2015. An owner complains of suspension problems:
https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/air-suspension-failure-very-unpleasant-results
Other Interesting facts:
1. Tesla appears to have evidence of the suspension problems as far back as 2013.
2. Tesla has chosen NOT to recall all Tesla vehicles and replace the defective parts with better/stronger parts. Such a recall would likely have (i) cost Tesla tens or hundreds of millions, (ii) damaged the company’s reputation, (iii) impaired/delayed its recent $1.7 billion stock sale, (iv) caused a decline in the company’s stock price, and/or (v) led to financial distress or bankruptcy.
3. Tesla’s CEO Elon Musk knowingly made the decision NOT to recall the vehicles for his own financial gain (he owns billions in stock).
4. Tesla has experienced a high percentage of executive departures in the last 12 months, including their CFO, Corporate Controller, two heads of manufacturing/production, head or PR, and VP in Legal (in fact the only senior attorney left at Tesla is its GC who was Musk’s divorce attorney).
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
No there isn't. There is speculation, mostly from that wack job Keef, who probably wrote that letter. There may or may not be an issue, but there is little actual evidence of such.
This just makes me angry, Mr. Cordaro. It's one thing to have a problem with the vehicle and complain about it. It's another to be a patsy for a well known troll that is pushing an obvious agenda. He has been doing so for years on various forums including stuffing the NHTSA website with falsehoods for years. His lies even came up during the fight for an additional Tesla dealership location in Virginia, as the Virginia Automobile Dealers Association lawyers tried to use some of them as part of their strategy to disparage Tesla. Of course, VADA's entire line of circular reasoning is idiotic, but nevertheless, the continual lies are disturbing especially when they are promoted by people that should know better.
I don't doubt your vehicle had a problem. It is not clear that it is Tesla's issue, or a widespread issue with all Tesla Model S vehicles. You never mentioned if you have had your car serviced appropriately. At this point, I don't believe anything you say, as Mr. Price's letter clearly did not say anything about the quality of the ball joint. You chose to read more into his words than were there and you continue to choose to promote falsehoods like Mr. Wivaneff's usage of crashed vehicles as a sign of quality problems. You willingness to promote falsehoods definitely makes me angry, especially when Mr. Wivaneff's so called evidence so clearly does not support his erroneous assertions.
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