Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Suspension Problem on Model S

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Why would he need to do that?
Do you think it is acceptable for the wheels to fall off at 70K miles?

I thought that's what warranty means. Any problems can be seen as not acceptable. After what mileage do you think it's OK for the wheels to fall off? Never?

In Finland service center is not fixing for example door handle problems after warranty although most people think the problems are not acceptable.

Why would anyone purchase extended warranty if problems are fixed for free also without it?
 
Last edited:
1
I know about 3 similar cases in Norway. One of them it did just snap right off when driving out of a parking spot. Is just luck none in them have happens when driving fast and caused an accident.

The upper control arm is made of steel and is s-h-i-t quality. I have never seen any other car rust so fast on the suspension parts like the Tesla does. And I have looked at many, even 20 years old cars look better than the Tesla after only 1-2 years.
Yes they salt very much in Norway but this is not a problem after so short time on other cars.

This is from a model S after 1 year and 10 000km.

View attachment 174882

View attachment 174883

It looks to me as though the problem is a simple case of Galvanic Corrosion.
The original poster's snapped dislocated ball-joint did not fail because of a loss of lubrication.
If that was the case then the ball would have been bright metal.
Aluminium in direct contact with steel plus moisture (and in particular salt water e.g. road salt) is a guaranteed recipe for Galvanic Corrosion.
See Google Images Lotus Elise Rust
Example Elise Chassis Corrosion
Lotus took some care to isolate Aluminium/steel components but in the event of bad maintenance or repair or manufacturing defects the result is that the steel turns to dust.

Tesla has chosen to ignore this issue and has steel/aluminium bolted directly together.
The immediate consequence of this can be seen in rusted brake rotors.
The delayed effects can best be described as a TICKING TIME BOMB.
 
PLEASE don't think that substituting stainless steel for mild steel is a solution.
As owners found out with the stainless steel side mirrors what happens the is that the Aluminium becomes the sacrificial anode and that turns to dust instead.

Warning to all elise/exige/europa owners/potential owners - Page 1 - Elise/Exige/Europa/340R - PistonHeads
Monday 21st December 2009

Guys

just as a warning, get this checked as soon as possible and talk to your dealers, the front suspension mounts on your car may well not be safe

When lotus built the elise and subsequent models they chose to use steel wishbones and to adjust the suspension steel washers as spacers, this is a practice no other manufacturer of aluminium cars has used, all going to aluminium suspension components

The steel washers rust when wet this then sets up an electrolytic reaction with the ali in the chassis, this causes the suspension mounts to corrode, this is most obvious at the upper mounting where the aluminium is thinnest, which results in what has happened to me, the suspension mounting point fails, at the edge of the mounting bush



This is not just one side, when they checked the other side they found the same problem. For reference i am the only owner of this car, it has never been crashed or even tracked.


The chassis is not repairable, so when this happens your car is dead, unless you want to spend 5k on a new chassis and the time and expense of changing all the components over, which will cost more then the car is worth, so not cost effective. If you just replace it, the replacement will have the same potential problem.

This is of coarse worse when the car gets wet, but the suspension mounts are exposed so they're the first to get wet and the last to dry out, i would be amazed if anything short of keeping it in a heated dehumidified garage would keep them dry.

Lotus of coarse have washed their hands of the problem, the cars are too old, they have your cash now, it's not their problem, they seem unwilling to explain the use of materials and why their own advice about the contact between steel and aluminium as outlined in the handbook has been ignored

The result of this, is that the unrepairable chassis is in effect a consumable product, when the suspension points have corroded the car is gone

The suspension point ripping out is a common cause of the cars being written off, the question that must be asked is if these failed because they had already partially corroded converting what would have ben a repair into a write off. The mounting points themselves are under most load when cornering, if they failed pre crash, the change in geometry may well be the cause of the crash itself.

I would implore you to get the points checked at your dealers, and to at least change the washers, the bad news is if the corrosion is there, there is nothing else that can be done, despite a repair solution being offered to lotus, they have decided it would not be safe, as you can't have stainless steel and ali in close proximity ( except when they do it, with mild steel)

If you are looking at buying one, get this checked beforehand as it dwarfs head gasket or any other problems, sorry but this is going to have a serious effect on used values. Mine is 11 years old, but knowing what I know now i wouldn't touch one that was 10 years old or older, and i would seriously question buying one more then 5 years old

I think the fact they they seem to have been aware of this, but choose to use mild steel rather then stainless steel washers on the suspension destroys any myths about "lotus engineering" this is a case of them saving a few pence per car....
 
I seem to recall Tesla having issues with ext mirrors failing in "salty" conditions ...
Absolutely true.
Corroding side view mirror brackets on norwegian cars

ktzu2y5-jpg.45233
 
The base of the problem seems to be the rubber boot that initially failed, letting grease out and water in so the ball joint corroded.
When the OP adjusted the suspension to the HIGH position to make it on the bad road, this created the pulling of the ball from the
socket of the ball joint.

There is no signs of the rubber boot around the ball in any of the pictures. Where did this rubber went?

On my S, for the sake of corrosion protection, I did paint my suspension components, as my brake parts.
This keeps my cars suspension components (and brakes) in very nice condition. The upper suspension parts were painted in clear coat. This provides a shield againt oxygen (needed to have the corrosion reaction) and keeps the part in their standard color.
L’entretien préventif des freins avant de Tesla S | Roulez Electrique
 
  • Informative
Reactions: int32_t
The base of the problem seems to be the rubber boot that initially failed, letting grease out and water in so the ball joint corroded.
When the OP adjusted the suspension to the HIGH position to make it on the bad road, this created the pulling of the ball from the
socket of the ball joint.

There is no signs of the rubber boot around the ball in any of the pictures. Where did this rubber went?

On my S, for the sake of corrosion protection, I did paint my suspension components, as my brake parts.
This keeps my cars suspension components (and brakes) in very nice condition. The upper suspension parts were painted in clear coat. This provides a shield againt oxygen (needed to have the corrosion reaction) and keeps the part in their standard color.
L’entretien préventif des freins avant de Tesla S | Roulez Electrique

But the original poster reported that Tesla are replacing the ball joints on BOTH sides.
This is not isolated to one side of the car and simply caused by a damaged rubber bbot.
This is a systemic failure that is NOT just one freak occurrence.
This is a design and maintenance issue that affects every Tesla on the road.
I am sure that the TMC forum has the best interests of all Tesla owners and the safety of the public as a top priority.
To assist this end I have archived this entire thread and will pass it on to the relevant authorities.
Thank you kindly.
 
I had a similar experience with my front control arms. My car was delivered in January 2013. At my most recent annual service, which was just under the 50K mark, they replaced my right rear knuckle, which they noticed had an issue when they were replacing the drive unit (milling noise) and the TPMS sensors. Two months later, I noticed a very loud creaking when going down the pothole-filled road that leads to my driveway, on which I try never surpass 10 mph. I brought it in, now at 53K and outside of warranty window, and they kept my car as it was deemed unsafe to drive until the front lower control arms and ball joints were replaced. I was told this was a known issue with early build cars, but I was charged for the work, as I was now out of warranty. I paid for it with referral credits, so I didn't think too much of it at the time, though I did ask if they could grandfather it in under the warranty, which they could not. This thread makes me think I should have pressed harder, as it sounds like there were simply issues with corrosion and/or design on these ball joints, in our wet and salty northeast Winter driving conditions?
 
I will also note that Service went out of their way to get approval from Engineering to have the new design control arms from the Dual Motor vehicles installed on my RWD car, not solely because these were all they had in stock and readily available.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: TaoJones
This is interesting to me because I'm in the process of waiting to have front suspension bushings replaced (they need to get parts). The mechanic's comment to me was that moisture probably got into the bushing resulting in very annoying creaking.

It sounds like there may be a systemic issue with water seals on the suspension parts. After all, "It never rains in California", and there certainly isn't a lot of salt on the roads.
 
This is interesting to me because I'm in the process of waiting to have front suspension bushings replaced (they need to get parts). The mechanic's comment to me was that moisture probably got into the bushing resulting in very annoying creaking.

It sounds like there may be a systemic issue with water seals on the suspension parts. After all, "It never rains in California", and there certainly isn't a lot of salt on the roads.
There may not be a lot of salt on the roads but if you live anywhere near the coast then the the conditions are right to cause corrosion.

The creaking might be annoying but I think folks will find it much more annoying when the suspension snaps going around a bend at 70 MPH.
 
"On my S, for the sake of corrosion protection, I did paint my suspension components, as my brake parts.
This keeps my cars suspension components (and brakes) in very nice condition. The upper suspension parts were painted in clear coat. This provides a shield againt oxygen (needed to have the corrosion reaction) and keeps the part in their standard color.
L’entretien préventif des freins avant de Tesla S | Roulez Electrique"

I notice from the article you have quoted that the CPO Car you purchased from Tesla was supplied to you with a brake calliper that was completely inoperable due to rust.
Rather than report this to Tesla and to NHTSA you chose to repair it yourself.
Is that a responsible way to act?
 
  • Like
Reactions: AndY1 and cwerdna
If the problem is galvanic corrosion then painting or coating the outside of the parts will have little effect.

Galvanic corrosion is a huge, big deal. I've owned an all aluminum car (Acura NSX) and every bolt, washer, fastener, adjoining surfaces were treated, or protected with appropriate fasteners. I have the factory body work manual and a huge part of that book is dedicated with teaching and explaining the issue.
 
If the problem is galvanic corrosion then painting or coating the outside of the parts will have little effect.

Galvanic corrosion is a huge, big deal. I've owned an all aluminum car (Acura NSX) and every bolt, washer, fastener, adjoining surfaces were treated, or protected with appropriate fasteners. I have the factory body work manual and a huge part of that book is dedicated with teaching and explaining the issue.

To prevent Galvanic corrosion it is necessary to electrically isolate the dissimilar metals.
It is plain as day from photographs that Tesla is ignoring that rule.
Look at the complaints about the air struts on the tailgate rusting .
That is in a part of the car that only gets rainwater.
The underbody is a different ball game altogether.
Road dirt and salt off the roads.
This is going to be an absolute disaster.
Look at all the rust underneath this one
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Dr ValueSeeker
Incidentally, that car was up for sale as a salvage wreck because of "undercarriage damage"
Play the video at 0.25 speed and look closely at the 1 minute mark.
There is a castellated nut without a locking pin which has unscrewed itself.
I don't think Tesla normally even bother to fit castellated nuts.
I'd guess that was some amateur mechanic (Tesla?) who though it might do a better job of staying bolted up.
Notice how many nuts have felt pen witness marks"
Why no Nyloc nuts or pinned nuts?
Scary stuff.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: TaoJones
WOW.

Maybe this is not just an isolated incident.

"I did not mean to bash Tesla, I love my car, and only posted this to alert other model S owners for safety reason. Please get your car inspected if you have over 50k miles and live in extreme weather climates. Lets keep Tesla the safest car in the WORLD.
I am certain that this is far from an isolated incident."


If the cause had been a damaged rubber boot on one side of the car then why did Tesla replace both sides?
I'm assuming that you car has had the regular maintenance done on it
Where I live cars are not required to have safety checks by authorised inspection stations until they are 3 years old.
Part of that testing includes applying a lever to the ball joints to detect wear.
That might have shown up the problem earlier.
I have taken the liberty of sending your photographs to NHTSA and I do hope they will be taking this matter seriously.
Galvanic corrosion plus inept maintenance. Bolts that work loose and are then overtightened until they snap!
Heavens to Betsy! Have a look at the Tesla Whompy Wheels album.
Safest car in the world?
Are you sure about that?

I have archived this entire thread.
I did the same thing with the the other thread the-rear-axle-shaft-broken-without-reason which has now been deleted from the forum.

I have reported all of this to NHTSA and to the FBI.
The forum owners should be mindful that conspiring to suppress information concerning a serious safety problem carries heavy penalties.
 
Last edited:
The forum owners should be mindful that conspiring to suppress information concerning a serious safety problem carries heavy penalties.[/QUOTE said:
King & Spalding, GM Accused Of Ignition Defect Cover-Up
By Joe Van Acker

Law360, New York (June 11, 2015, 7:12 PM ET) -- General Motors LLC conspired with attorneys from King & Spalding LLP to conceal an ignition defect affecting millions of vehicles by quickly settling claims in order to avoid a recall, according to a motion to compel filed by multidistrict litigation plaintiffs in New York federal court Thursday.
gm.jpg

GM and King & Spalding are accused of lying to judges and concealing documents during lawsuits over an ignition switch defect, with plaintiffs saying the evidence they seek falls under a crime-fraud exception to attorney-client privilege. (Credit: AP)

The plaintiffs said post-bankruptcy “New GM” was aware as early as 2004 that the ignition switches it was installing in model year 2005 Chevy Cobalts could easily slip or be bumped into an inactive position while the cars were moving, deactivating electronics as well as the vehicles' airbags, but illegally kept it a secret.

In their motion to compel documents from New GM and the law firm, the plaintiffs alleged that King & Spalding repeatedly warned the automaker beginning in 2010 that it would face significant legal problems if its advance knowledge of the defect came to light.

“Lawyers have a duty to not participate in crimes,” said Robert C. Hilliard, an attorney for the plaintiffs, in a statement on Thursday. “By allowing evidence of a defect that will kill and injure to be covered up and those cases confidentially settled both GM and the attorneys advising them sentenced many of my clients to die.”
 
From the NSX info site...

"......To prevent environmental corrosion, the bodies receive a chromate coating similar
to the process used in the aircraft industry. Conventional electro-deposition
of primer is then applied over the chromate. This is followed by a base coat
of paint, and three top coats. To prevent galvanic corrosion, all the steel
components, such as brackets, bolts, and washers, are Dacro coated to prevent
the inherent induction current produced when different metals are joined
. The
steel bolts can be removed and re-installed up to ten times before significant
deterioration of the protective coating occurs."

The coating to mitigate galvanic corrosion is Dacromet (AKA - Dacro).

http://michiganmetalcoatings.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Dacromet.16981810.pdf
 
Status
Not open for further replies.