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Suspension Problem on Model S

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I am looking at that picture of the ball joint and cannot believe that one cannot hear that and notice before failure occurs. I have had ball joints in much better condition replaced on my previous cars. I think that the OP was completely neglecting any suspension sounds and that is something you do not do when driving on bad roads.

Anyway, thanks for the opportunity to buy stock... ;)
 
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Please stop. Even Tesla have pulled this line.

In EuroNCAP testing the Model S is not the safest overall for occupancy safety. It's safer in some crash types, and less safe in others.

Repeating Tesla-lore, helps no-one and is easy to disprove. Better to just be balanced and say it's a very safe car, even if it has a lower overall score than some of the other cars in class that have been released since.

Anyway back on topic, my car had it's suspension worked on at around 9,000 miles for a TSB of rubbing of the lower arms (something I hadn't noticed, but happened when the techs noticed unusual contact marks at annual service). The car is currently back in the shop and getting some work done on .

I reported a number of issues to my SC about a month ago before this blew up, and one of the issues is a clicking in the suspension, it's minor but I wanted everything fixing in one go (it's a big list unfortunately). The car is almost two years old and only done 14k miles.

I live in the UK and we do salt the roads here. I will post back what gets done to the car, but if mine too needs replacement, then it would suggest age related corrosion rather than mileage.

I do know that any car going in right now from the UK launch batch are having a number of TSB's done. Battery heater and replacement HV lines (this was listed in my job sheet too). No idea what is up with those parts as I've not noticed any problems charging, or battery wise.

Meanwhile I've got an Infiniti Q50 loaner :( Horrible car, and no better way than to make me forget some of the S's shortcomings :D

Safety testing is done to have apples ( in the same class ) compared to apples in controlled manner. Safety rating hints at overall safety but does not imply it. Just recall many times in the past when 5 star cars failed new more stringent tests. Most manufacturers design to test where as tesla has designed for ground- up safety. That is the biggest difference and why many claim that Tesla vehicles are one of the safest.
 
@smac - I have the clicking from the front suspension as well, I have not gotten around to contact the SC yet. Do you have any idea what it is?

No idea, mine happens a lot during slow speed parking manoeuvres, especially near full lock. Will see what the SC have to say about it.

TBH this was somewhat secondary to the failed drivers door handle :(

Wait times are in the weeks here currently, and so I didn't really press for an immediate fix (I could have if I was minded as working external door handles on both front doors are a legal part of our MOT test, and so technically the car was illegal to drive). I was a bit disappointed to have to wait, and then to get a non Tesla loaner on a scheduled appointment. (And this cannot be good for Tesla's costs, I'll have had the posh Nissan more than a week soon :()

IF this does go to recall I simply can't imagine the bedlam at the already overstretched service centers :( Tesla were very smart with the seat belt check, sending staff to the Superchargers and mopping up stragglers with site visits of cars in similar areas. I suspect they will need to use a two poster lift in this case to do any checks :(

As @SR22pilot says they are a young company still learning, and stuff like this will happen (unfortunately). They certainly have the attitude to resolve things (my SC staff have been very friendly and enthusiastic) however they do always feel resource stretched. It is my biggest worry.
 
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But the crux of Tesla's argument in quickly dismissing this "very abnormal rust" (Tesla's own words in the post) hinges on excessive dirt road usage. And that no longer holds. So how can the rebuttal make sense anymore? Either Tesla shows that there was very abnormal dirt road usage, or it goes back and re-investigates the cause of this "very abnormal rust".


Look, we know you are very desperate to bash Tesla in any way possible, but this is beyond ridiculous. You are focusing on a single out of warranty part failure on a single vehicle. It's simply not relevant, and ultimately it doesn't matter how or why this single part on this single vehicle failed, (outside of engineering curiosity), it's a statistical non event. I realize it's all you have since all the other "complaints" were proven to be false, just as many of us have known for a while. "Keef" and his "Whompy Wheels" site were obviously never going to be taken seriously by anyone with an ounce of critical thinking ability. Maybe take a break, step back from the keyboard, and evaluate what you are trying to accomplish, and if it's worth your effort, especially on this forum. We know far more about Tesla than you do, we've been researching the company for much longer than you have, and many of us obviously have far greater technical knowledge and experience than you. You and your fellow FUDsters hung your hopes on one disgruntled customer and a lunatic with an agenda, that's never going to work out well for anyone.
 
You are focusing on a single out of warranty part failure on a single vehicle. It's simply not relevant, and ultimately it doesn't matter how or why this single part on this single vehicle failed, (outside of engineering curiosity), it's a statistical non event.

Exactly! It's a statistical no-event. It's so unlikely to happen that it, for all relevant intents and purposes - including NHTSA oversight - it might as well not have happened.

The real news are clustering of failures that start to look more and more statistically significant.

One swallows a summer makes not.
 
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Are the ball joints on the maintenance schedule?

Maintenance is beyond the manufacturer recommended schedule. Those schedules are based on the operation of the vehicle. Beyond that, PA requires an annual inspection that includes inspecting the ball joints specifically. Tesla isn't licensed to perform the mandatory PA safety inspections so some other mechanic had to do that. Finally, the owner/driver should have felt and heard that something is wrong well before the wheel coming off. It didn't just snap off.. it corroded over time. There is a personal responsibility to make sure the vehicle is in good working order.

Note that without a local service center, the owner can skip Tesla's annual service that would check for this. But given it is PA, a thorough check should be done as mandated by law.
 
Are the ball joints on the maintenance schedule?

PA State Inspection Checklist: Performing State Inspections

  • To test the following: windshield washer and wipers, horns and warning lights, suspension components and steering, braking and fuel systems, tires and wheels, windows and mirrors, speedometer and odometer, seat belts and safety equipment.
  • To inspect the body and chassis for rust and leaks (such that noxious or toxic fumes would enter car interior).
 
Alright, out from retirement for this....

X, Yes? - Your motivation is clearly stock price, not buying a model s.

Dr. Valueseeker and X, yes? seem to post in conjunction a lot....

IP addresses should be Banned for certain accounts... like lucilles. I know there's ways around this, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these are the same person.
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Tesla's response was good, but perhaps rather than purely trash on Neidermeyer, they should have pointed out the falsehoods of his claims (using crashed cars where the wheel breaking was the result, not the cause).

As for the dirt road piece. The op clearly owns multiple businesses with many locations and quite a few vehicles. My guess would be that one of the locations in that network is on a dirt road. Perhaps that address was used on some documentation that Tesla had, or perhaps it was frequented a lot, and when they looked at the telemetry they figured that was the "home location". Who knows, but I would think it was more of an honest mistake.

Wow... this really got blown up for no reason. It's unfortunate, since that was the goal of the original made up set of complaints.

WOW people are so naive, I live within 2 miles of my business, also on a paved road. My Model S has not been abused or driven regularly on any dirt road. The car was serviced at the Ross Park Mall sears service center just three weeks before the incident, So I blindly believed the car was in good shape. I just count my lucky stars that I did go onto that back country road that Sunday and had the failure at a low speed otherwise my Wife and I could have been killed or worse yet killed someone else. Now that I know that The Tesla ball joints are prone to wear out ,in my case, at about 70,000 miles, I will check them about every 30,000 miles for safety sake. My only purpose in the first place when posting here was to warn other Tesla Model S owners about the safety risk so that they have their cars inspected for safety issues. If I convinced just one owner to do so and potentially saved an accident I accomplished my goal.

There is now to much noise on this thread, so I will not reply again on this thread until I hear back from NHTSA about my case.
 
For those who haven't seen the NDA language Tesla requires, here it an example, from an agreement they asked me to sign (but which I did not):

(3) your receipt, agreement and acceptance of the above payment is in full and complete satisfaction of, and you agree (including, without limitation, on behalf of all your heirs, estates, executors and beneficiaries and all other persons acting under your direction) to fully and forever release and discharge Tesla and any and all of its past, present and future entities, affiliates or persons (including, without limitation, all stockholders, officers, directors, employees, agents and attorneys) and all persons or entities acting on or for its or their behalf (“Released Parties”) of and from any and all claims, complaints, demands, damages, liabilities, actions and causes of action of every kind (including without limitation alleged breaches or violations of express or implied representations, warranties or any state or federal regulations or statutes relating to lemon law, warranty, class actions, product liability, consumer fraud, consumer protection, unfair competition or false, unlawful, unfair, deceptive, untrue, misleading or fraudulent business acts, practices or advertising), known or unknown, suspected or unsuspected, arising out of or in any way connected with the Vehicle (“Claims”), (4) you will not initiate, advise, encourage, commence, participate or aid in any action at law or in equity or any legal proceeding (including withdrawing or cancelling any previously submitted or filed actions or legal proceedings) against any of the Released Parties based in whole or in part upon or related to any Claim, except as required by, and only to the extent necessary to comply with, applicable law, person or entity any Claims.

To the fullest extent permissible consistent with applicable law, you agree to keep confidential the terms and conditions of this letter, including, without limitation, its existence (collectively, “Confidential Information”) and acknowledge that such confidentiality is also for your privacy and protection. Except as may be required by law, you may disclose the Confidential Information only to the extent necessary in any proceedings to enforce, or to obtain professional advice with respect to, this letter. You agree that you will not publicize, directly or indirectly, any Confidential Information or otherwise disclose Confidential Information to any third party except as specified above. You agree that your breach of any conditions in this letter, directly or indirectly, will give rise to a right of action by a Released Party for rescission of this letter, injunctive relief and damages.
As you can see, it is very broad. It prohibits the customer from participating or aiding in any action or legal proceeding against Tesla related to any "Claim" (which is defined extremely broadly, including "complaints...in any way connected to the Vehicle") without being legally compelled to do so first, and it prohibits the disclosure of even the existence of the letter. If I sign it, I can't even legally tell my friends what happened to my car. If I disclose anything, then it gives Tesla the right to "injunctive relief and damages". Even problems with the car unrelated to the current incident are covered. Wow. This seems designed to prevent discovery of systemic problems, which I think we as customers deserve the collective right to discuss. How can we as a community reach the truth about large-scale issues if the people most affected are prohibited from sharing information? It just seems wrong. Tesla is not a legacy car company, and we as customers have higher expectations of it than we do of others. It's a visionary Silicon Valley company that has benefited greatly from word of mouth. Continued enjoyment of the benefits of word of mouth depends on allowing such customer to customer information flow to continue, without censorship. I'm a proud Tesla owner, and a true believer in its mission, but I want to be able to tell the complete story.

I was asked to sign this agreement, and refused, because of its over-broad nature, and asked Tesla to provide me a simpler agreement in which they simply state that their action does not constitute an admission of any defect. Simple. Tesla legal has so far refused. I hope they re-think their position in light of the negative publicity arising out of the NHTSA objections.

Yeah, this a perfectly acceptable agreement. Almost exactly what I would put together if I was Teslas lawyer. The key is the line stating that "to the fullest extent consistent with law" confidentiality must be maintained. Suppressing disclosure to federal authorities is not permissible by law, therefore the agreement does not discourage disclosure (even implicitly) as many feared. The only change I would have made (which Tesla is now doing) is I would have added language explicitly stating that the agreement in no way affects the participants right to report issues to federal authorities.

The agreement is just that - an exchange of consideration. They are willing to fix something they do not have to in exchange for you keeping quiet about it so it doesn't create a precedent or cause other legal issues. It's the same reason you accept severance in exchange for a release of claims when you are fired from your job. Sometimes people decline the severance because they think the lawsuit will be more lucrative. Fair enough.

You are making the same decision. Apparently the ability to tell your friends and the internet that tesla agreed to pay for something out of warranty in exchange for signing a boilerplate nda is worth more than the repairs. Again, fair enough. But don't pretend tesla is doing anything nefarious here.
 
WOW people are so naive, I live within 2 miles of my business, also on a paved road. My Model S has not been abused or driven regularly on any dirt road. The car was serviced at the Ross Park Mall sears service center just three weeks before the incident, So I blindly believed the car was in good shape. I just count my lucky stars that I did go onto that back country road that Sunday and had the failure at a low speed otherwise my Wife and I could have been killed or worse yet killed someone else. Now that I know that The Tesla ball joints are prone to wear out ,in my case, at about 70,000 miles, I will check them about every 30,000 miles for safety sake. My only purpose in the first place when posting here was to warn other Tesla Model S owners about the safety risk so that they have their cars inspected for safety issues. If I convinced just one owner to do so and potentially saved an accident I accomplished my goal.

There is now to much noise on this thread, so I will not reply again on this thread until I hear back from NHTSA about my case.

So, it wasn't, in fact, Tesla that serviced your car. You make no mention of how often your car was serviced...except the most recent 3 weeks (which earlier you said was 2 weeks) before the failure.

If you live so close to your business...could you possibly explain how you've racked up 70k miles? That's a lot more driving than to and from work. You also seem confused about just how many times you've driven on un-paved roads...as has been pointed out by a couple posters. You really need to choose one story, and stick to it.

NHTSA disagrees with your concerns, it seems.
 
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WOW people are so naive, I live within 2 miles of my business, also on a paved road. My Model S has not been abused or driven regularly on any dirt road. The car was serviced at the Ross Park Mall sears service center just three weeks before the incident, So I blindly believed the car was in good shape. I just count my lucky stars that I did go onto that back country road that Sunday and had the failure at a low speed otherwise my Wife and I could have been killed or worse yet killed someone else. Now that I know that The Tesla ball joints are prone to wear out ,in my case, at about 70,000 miles, I will check them about every 30,000 miles for safety sake.
There are no indications that the ball joints are more prone to wear out on a Tesla than any other car.

It's of course unfortunate that you've had greater than average wear and tear on your ball joints, but that's the sort of thing one has to expect as a car owner. If in fact Sears did service the car (and didn't just do an alignment or something similar), I'd be kinda pissed off that they missed such a major fault.
 
I have the clicking from the front suspension as well, I have not gotten around to contact the SC yet. Do you have any idea what it is?

Clicking on my car's front suspension was fixed by a steering rack TSB. I believe they replace or add 2 washers, and then re-torque front suspension to specs. The service center is very familiar with the sound and should identify and fix it easily.
 
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WOW people are so naive, I live within 2 miles of my business, also on a paved road. My Model S has not been abused or driven regularly on any dirt road. The car was serviced at the Ross Park Mall sears service center just three weeks before the incident, So I blindly believed the car was in good shape. I just count my lucky stars that I did go onto that back country road that Sunday and had the failure at a low speed otherwise my Wife and I could have been killed or worse yet killed someone else. Now that I know that The Tesla ball joints are prone to wear out ,in my case, at about 70,000 miles, I will check them about every 30,000 miles for safety sake. My only purpose in the first place when posting here was to warn other Tesla Model S owners about the safety risk so that they have their cars inspected for safety issues. If I convinced just one owner to do so and potentially saved an accident I accomplished my goal.

There is now to much noise on this thread, so I will not reply again on this thread until I hear back from NHTSA about my case.

It was a Sears. Not a Tesla Service Center. Again, did you ask them to check out the suspension or just asked for an alignment? Two very different things.

All cars have parts that are prone to wearing out. PA annual safety inspection includes the ball joint inspection. Who did that? Are you going after them?

Why have you given contradictory information on driving off road? You stated it didn't drive off-road, then you gave different reporters different information about the amount of off-road use. And now you say you don't do it regularly.

This isn't actually about the amount of off-road use. It is about accelerating your maintenance and inspection schedule based on the your use pattern. Given corrosion, there should be plenty of symptoms ahead of wheel detachment. Matter of fact, you mentioned one... increased tire wear.

Given what we now know of your situation, it isn't surprising that the ball joints could have shortened lifespan. The question is why you let it get to this point.
 
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