Suspension Questions

[PDACPA]

I have done some searches and just cannot find the answer here (or other places) regarding the suspension and options and how it changed.

From what I have read, the P85+ had an improved suspension with different sway bars, bushings, and required the 21" wheels (staggered). I do not think it had the air suspension. Based on what I read, the P85D followed that car and the suspension option became either with or without air suspension.

I am looking for a used CPO Performance Model S and need the longer range of the D models (been searching 85 and higher with D) and would like the firmer suspension that the + seemed to have, but I am unsure how to distinguish the suspension on the car. Are the options limited to air or no air?

 

[Az_Rael]

I think the + suspension was an air suspension option.

If you are looking for one of the early P85Ds with the stiffer suspension, you have to find either a 2014 or a 2015 with a build date earlier than ~May I think. There is no way to tell without physically inspecting the struts on the car for the 2015 P85Ds.

We have one. I will dig around and see if I can find the old post that shows the strut p/n info.

 

[PDACPA]

I read that there was a whole suspension package (and it was something you could add to the car by the SC, but then Tesla stopped upgrading the suspension) and it included stiffer bushing, sway bars and other items which helped with improved cornering.

 

[Az_Rael]

I read that there was a whole suspension package (and it was something you could add to the car by the SC, but then Tesla stopped upgrading the suspension) and it included stiffer bushing, sway bars and other items which helped with improved cornering.

You are correct. Here was the part number info:
P85D (pre/post April) ride performance

Hard part is locating one. If they are at a dealer private sale you can get the seller to send you photos of the part numbers. If they are at Tesla, it will be more challenging to get the info on the car.

 

[Russell]

I have done some searches and just cannot find the answer here (or other places) regarding the suspension and options and how it changed.

From what I have read, the P85+ had an improved suspension with different sway bars, bushings, and required the 21" wheels (staggered). I do not think it had the air suspension. Based on what I read, the P85D followed that car and the suspension option became either with or without air suspension.

I am looking for a used CPO Performance Model S and need the longer range of the D models (been searching 85 and higher with D) and would like the firmer suspension that the + seemed to have, but I am unsure how to distinguish the suspension on the car. Are the options limited to air or no air?

Here's a picture of the plus suspension air spring module
Performance Plus (+) Upgrade

 

[PDACPA]

Thanks guys. I had read those threads, but confused at what suspension options were available after the + upgrade. On EV-CPO you can see the Options and I was trying to decipher what each package equated to so I can determine the suspension:

PF01-Performance Legacy - I think this relates to leather seating and lighting (not suspension)
PX00- No Performance Plus - the car does not have the plus suspension
PX01 - Performance Plus - Dampers, Bushings, anti roll bars (Requires 21" tires) and 6-12 miles range extra
X024-Performance Package - ?
(SU01)-Smart Air Suspension - Air suspension to raise and lower ride height and has GPS to remember setting (ie your driveway)

I think the P85+ sounds like the right car for me, but would rather have the dual motors and the + are hard to find. I am also like the facelift better, but that is something I could change if I found a regular nosecone at a good price.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Welcome to TMC!

All P85+ (RWD) cars have the Performance+ (P+) suspension. It's totally separate from the "Smart Air Suspension" (SAS) which is just air shocks that raise and lower the ride height of the car and do not change the handling (like some air shocks of other manufacturers do). As far as I know, all P85+ cars had both.

Now if you're looking at the P85D, all P85Ds built April 2015 or earlier have the P+ suspension. But some of those might have springs, but most also have the SAS. These early P85Ds could come with any mix of rims -- 21" staggered, 21" square, or even 19" square. That part is a crapshoot, but you can always change wheels later. I personally have a P85D+ and use 21" Turbines (square setup) in the summer with Hankook summer performance tires, and 19" rims in the winter with snow tires.

The link Russel posted above is the best source for everything we've learned about the P+ suspension: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/performance-plus-upgrade.85204/

Also keep in mind that the early P85Ds may or may not have the PX01 code for the P+ suspension. That is unreliable -- the only sure-fire way to confirm the P+ suspension is to look at the shock tower part numbers. But the build date was April 2015 (inclusive) or earlier, then it most likely has it. Even these early P85Ds with the PX00 code (no P+ suspension) have been found to have it.

Oh, and there is an early report that there was a retrofit kit for the P+ suspension, but I think only a few people were able to get it before Tesla stopped doing it.

All that said, the P+ suspension is awesome if you like German sport-sedan handling -- think BMW M5 or MB AMG.

 

[HankLloydRight]

am also like the facelift better, but that is something I could change if I found a regular nosecone at a good price.

There are no P85Ds with the facelift nosecone. In fact, there are no P+ cars with the facelift nosecone. But you can buy and aftermarket kit to do it for a few thousand bucks, or less if you do it yourself.

Oh, one more note: If you don't need AWD, then the P85+ is still a great car, but the P85D (+ or not) will give you Autopilot Version 1, which is really worth it (also 'next gen' seats). There are a few (300 or so) Unicorn P85+s with AP1, but they are very rare and hard to find.

 

[PDACPA]

@HankLloydRight Thanks for the info. I definitely want the AP and coming from BMW M3's that was why I was interested in the stiffer suspension, bigger wheels and staggered. I am in FL so no need for 2 sets of wheels and tires and most of my cars have had staggered wheel set ups which I like. I do not drive a ton so not worried about the tire wear. Most of my cars have had the tire specific to the location RR or LR and no ability to rotate.

I figure the first facelifts are going to be coming off their 3 year lease in May/June as they introduced that in April 2016 so I am holding to see what the pricing does and maybe go with the original nosecone and do the aftermarket upgrade as the price drop might warrant it.

 

[HankLloydRight]

There's been a ton of discussion on TMC about a staggered setup on Model S. It really depends on what you're looking to get out of a staggered setup, but the bottom line is, they really don't add much except for understeer and bragging rights. A lot of us think it's a much better trade-off to have tires we can rotate back to front.

The bottom-bottom line is whatever Model S you get, it will be awesome and better than any M* car you've driven! (My "winter beater" is an E39 M5 ).

 

[linkster]

There's been a ton of discussion on TMC about a staggered setup on Model S. It really depends on what you're looking to get out of a staggered setup, but the bottom line is, they really don't add much except for understeer and bragging rights. A lot of us think it's a much better trade-off to have tires we can rotate back to front.

Road racers will tell you that a staggard set-up is better suited on RWD cars and a square set-up is better suited on AWD cars for balanced handling.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Road racers will tell you that a staggard set-up is better suited on RWD cars and a square set-up is better suited on AWD cars for balanced handling.

Absolutely! But road racing is not daily driving and is usually done on closed circuit course or closed roads and people use dedicated wheels and tires just for road racing. What I was referring to was mainly using a staggered setup for daily driving on regular wheels and tires.

 

[linkster]

Absolutely! But road racing is not daily driving and is usually done on closed circuit course or closed roads and people use dedicated wheels and tires just for road racing. What I was referring to was mainly using a staggered setup for daily driving on regular wheels and tires.

Same staggard vs. square applies to street driving as well,

 

[HankLloydRight]

That's why I said there's a ton of discussion on this. A lot of people think staggered wheels/tires don't make any difference other than cost and understeer. Staggered wheels on a Tesla (245+265) only adds 20mm of width (the width of your thumb) to the back tires, and only increases the contact patch area by about 4%. IF there's a difference, it's only going to be noticeable at the extreme edge of performance and adhesion, which frankly, I don't think most people ever get close to pushing their cars that far on public roads.

But people can do whatever the want to make themselves happy.

 

[PDACPA]

@HankLloydRight The E39 was one of the best M5's. Still looks great today and do not see many of them on the road.

I do a few autocrosses with the Porsche/BMW club and when the stars align a track day at Sebring, but for the most part, I like the look of the staggered and wider rear tires. I cannot think of the last car I owned (other than the wife's trucks) that I have rotated tires on so not too worried about them.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I do a few autocrosses with the Porsche/BMW club and when the stars align a track day at Sebring,

Sure, under those conditions, staggered tires might have a real effect.

The E39 was one of the best M5's. Still looks great today and do not see many of them on the road.

Thanks. I do love the M5. Whenever I take it out, it's still kick-in-the-pants fun to drive! Doug Demuro on Youtube thinks they are cheap now, but in 5 or 10 years, they're going to be real collectors' cars. I was thinking of selling mine for ~$10k (it's in "average" shape for 125k miles)... but now I think I might hold on to it for a few more years.

I cannot think of the last car I owned that I have rotated tires on so not too worried about them.

I have a similar outlook. A lot of people complain when their tires only last 10k miles or 20k miles and not 30k or 40k miles. I always say, tires are (relatively) cheap, don't worry about it! Just drive your cars like you like to drive them and when they need tires, buy new ones! Ever since I was a kid with a '67 Mustang, I *loved* getting new tires on that and every car I've had since. Last year when I hit a huge pothole in NJ and it took out two 21" rims and tires, I was like "yay, I get to buy new tires!!". Maybe I'm just strange.