SUVs, are they a disease?

[bluenation]

Some people in Norway have canceled their reservation and ordered a D instead, AWD is on high demand ... People had reserved the X for the AWD more than the type of car, and none new reservation numbers have been reported since the D event.
I guess 20-30% of Norwegian Model X reservation holders moved to Model S D version, quite a few have reported their change of mind on elbilforum.no

^ not too surprising , since the SUV addiction is a disease that flares strongest in north america

Mod Note: This discussion was not started by bluenation, but split off from Model X tally thread.

 

[felixtb]

^ not too surprising , since the SUV addiction is a disease that flares strongest in north america

disease and disease........ maybe in the US in the major cities its a disease but there can be significant need and comfort in a large and taller vehicle in family life...... kids, dogs and or other domestic animals, sports equipment etc, etc,..... this can suddenly make your "massive" SUV become almost small in every day use..... so as long as they become significantly safer for external impact to pedestrians and other travelers then there hopefully will be much less of an issue/"disease" with them.... and I think notably an electric SUV with lots of passive pedestrian safety would be a rather EXCELENT vehicle in the segment to begin to dispel the disease syndrome attached to the category.......

 

[roblab]

.. kids, dogs and or other domestic animals,.....

For my brother, that is Llamas, dogs, cats, dogs, burros, dogs, parrots, horses, and dogs. I think he will need the X hauling a trailer.

 

[felixtb]

For my brother, that is Llamas, dogs, cats, dogs, burros, dogs, parrots, horses, and dogs. I think he will need the X hauling a trailer.

or multiple trailers

on topic again: there seems to be a complete lule in new X reservations lately or at least on these forums...... has the D and the scampe details of the X derailed the steady progress of reservations completely?

 

[chickensevil]

or multiple trailers

on topic again: there seems to be a complete lule in new X reservations lately or at least on these forums...... has the D and the scampe details of the X derailed the steady progress of reservations completely?

I'm sure it is exactly for both those reasons. There is almost no reason to mention the X in conversation about tesla other than as a car that will be coming eventually... If I am talking to someone about Tesla the only reason the X ever gets mentioned is if they ask about it or I can tell that they are an SUV person... Even then I still try to guide them to the MS because it is available now and probably meets their needs

 

[bluenation]

disease and disease........ maybe in the US in the major cities its a disease but there can be significant need and comfort in a large and taller vehicle in family life...... kids, dogs and or other domestic animals, sports equipment etc, etc,..... this can suddenly make your "massive" SUV become almost small in every day use..... so as long as they become significantly safer for external impact to pedestrians and other travelers then there hopefully will be much less of an issue/"disease" with them.... and I think notably an electric SUV with lots of passive pedestrian safety would be a rather EXCELENT vehicle in the segment to begin to dispel the disease syndrome attached to the category.......

all of which can be done with wagons. which are more aerodynamic, therefore more fuel efficient. and becaus of lower center of gravity, better driving dynamics.

suv's are safer, ill give you that. but that's only because of other suv's and pick up's on the road. thus, "safer for me and my suv, even if at the expense of others on the road".

besides, north americans arent the only ones with lotsa pets and kids.....and yet, SUV's are mostly north american phenomenom.

 

[chickensevil]

all of which can be done with wagons. which are more aerodynamic, therefore more fuel efficient. and becaus of lower center of gravity, better driving dynamics.

suv's are safer, ill give you that. but that's only because of other suv's and pick up's on the road. thus, "safer for me and my suv, even if at the expense of others on the road".

besides, north americans arent the only ones with lotsa pets and kids.....and yet, SUV's are mostly north american phenomenom.

Actually based on the latest data from the IHS a lot has to do with it being mandatory to have stability control in SUVs as opposed to Sedans/Coupes. SUVs have to compensate for their being top heavy and in doing so, they have made the vehicles overall safer to drive. Because the Tesla uses Alluminum instead of steel and has the stability controls built in, and is super bottom heavy (The center of gravity is lower than the center of the wheels), any of the benefits you would have had driving an SUV is beat by the Model S design. Although, yes, size does also play a part since you don't stop so abruptly you are less prone to injury. This is why school busses don't have seatbelts, because the size/weight of the vehicle is such that you aren't going to abruptly stop the bus.

 

[trialcritic]

As many have pointed out, the big problem with the Model S is the getting in and out for old people. When my in-laws come into town (they are over 70), they have considerable difficulty getting into sedans. The Model X (and some SUVs) are very convenient.

 

[BerTX]

all of which can be done with wagons. which are more aerodynamic, therefore more fuel efficient. and becaus of lower center of gravity, better driving dynamics.

The Model X is not an SUV, it is a crossover. The Cd of the MX will probably not be much, if any, higher than the Model S, and certainly much lower than is possible in any station wagon. The size of the Model X will certainly be larger than that of a station wagon, bringing the CdA up to where the overall aerodynamics will probably be comparable.

The Model X will almost certainly have a lower center of gravity than an ICE station wagon.

 

[bluenation]

The Model X is not an SUV, it is a crossover. The Cd of the MX will probably not be much, if any, higher than the Model S, and certainly much lower than is possible in any station wagon. The size of the Model X will certainly be larger than that of a station wagon, bringing the CdA up to where the overall aerodynamics will probably be comparable.

The Model X will almost certainly have a lower center of gravity than an ICE station wagon.

a couple things:
- be careful of the almost-non existent distinction between x-over and wagon. bmw is selling the x1 wagon by simply calling it a x-over. basically, "change the name, but sell the same body style."
- a lot of ppl, and i think tesla included, has called it an suv, or 'suv crossover'. i have no idea what the latter means, but that just goes to show you how malleable & totally subjective these terms can be, depending on your marketing desires.
- i expect the X to be the most aerodynamic suv or x-over in existence. if tesla does this right, this should impact the X6 market.

 

[igotzzoom]

I consider crossovers to be a sub-genre of SUV. Although crossovers/SUVs are generally less efficient than passenger cars, the gap has narrowed considerably. I'm a big fan of wagons & hatchbacks, but they generally sell like week-old fish, unless you lift them a little, stick on a bunch of cladding, and put "Outback" or "Cross Country" on the tailgate. :wink:

 

[roblab]

....(The center of gravity is lower than the center of the wheels)....,

Interesting comment. I just measured my "center of the wheels" distance and get about 13 5/8 inches. I had heard for years that the Model S COG is 17", and a quick search found that one of the car mags called it 18". Both of these numbers are ridiculously low, but not "lower than the center of the wheels", at least on my car.

The SUV / Crossover will sit higher, so its COG will be maybe 19". Of course, only a guess.

So I'm thinking that your wheels are much bigger than mine, so the center of them is higher, or you are hearing different COG numbers.

I've also heard that you have to use two forklifts to turn one over. :wink:

 

[MikeL]

If the cog was lower than the axles, or wheel centers, the car would actually lean INTO a turn. Whoa
think about it.

 

[adiggs]

If the cog was lower than the axles, or wheel centers, the car would actually lean INTO a turn. Whoa
think about it.

That'd mess with people's sense of which end is up.

 

[chickensevil]

Interesting comment. I just measured my "center of the wheels" distance and get about 13 5/8 inches. I had heard for years that the Model S COG is 17", and a quick search found that one of the car mags called it 18". Both of these numbers are ridiculously low, but not "lower than the center of the wheels", at least on my car.

The SUV / Crossover will sit higher, so its COG will be maybe 19". Of course, only a guess.

So I'm thinking that your wheels are much bigger than mine, so the center of them is higher, or you are hearing different COG numbers.

I've also heard that you have to use two forklifts to turn one over. :wink:

Sorry was remembering incorrectly was thinking it was like 12" COG. I take it back. But it is still almost impossible to roll the S

 

[Lyon]

all of which can be done with wagons. which are more aerodynamic, therefore more fuel efficient. and becaus of lower center of gravity, better driving dynamics.

suv's are safer, ill give you that. but that's only because of other suv's and pick up's on the road. thus, "safer for me and my suv, even if at the expense of others on the road".

besides, north americans arent the only ones with lotsa pets and kids.....and yet, SUV's are mostly north american phenomenom.

You have, in my opinion, made an inaccurate factual statement here. Also, the premise of this thread conflates your value judgment about SUV's being bad with facts. There's nothing inherently evil about SUVs and there are, in fact, situations in which a wagon is not able to do everything a large SUV can. The reasons for the SUV being primarily a North American phenomenon is that gas is cheap and the roads are generally wider. Mostly these are avocational pursuits which, though not strictly speaking necessary, make life worth living.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

You have, in my opinion, made an inaccurate factual statement here. Also, the premise of this thread conflates your value judgment about SUV's being bad with facts. There's nothing inherently evil about SUVs and there are, in fact, situations in which a wagon is not able to do everything a large SUV can. The reasons for the SUV being primarily a North American phenomenon is that gas is cheap and the roads are generally wider. Mostly these are avocational pursuits which, though not strictly speaking necessary, make life worth living.

There is also a wide variety of SUV types. Many SUVs, particularly the crossover category, are derived from small car platforms. The Honda CR-V, for example, is a sibling of the Honda Civic.

SUVs get a bad reputation because a decade or so ago, SUVs leaned more towards being big, tall gas guzzlers. People disliked them because of pollution, road view obstruction, and danger to smaller cars. In 2005, many passenger cars still did not have standard side curtain airbags, so side strikes from taller SUVs could be especially fatal. Today I think that SUVs pose less of a threat than they used to, thanks to mandated side airbags. Cars structures in 2015 are also much better at protecting occupants than they were in 2005.

The one thing I don't like about SUVs is their higher COG and weight, which IMO makes them generally less fun to drive than sedans and coupes.

 

[ohmman]

As many have pointed out, the big problem with the Model S is the getting in and out for old people. When my in-laws come into town (they are over 70), they have considerable difficulty getting into sedans. The Model X (and some SUVs) are very convenient.

Likewise. Even my healthy, agile wife "prefers" getting into an upright vehicle over top of the MS. Driving.. that's a different story.

 

[chickensevil]

Likewise. Even my healthy, agile wife "prefers" getting into an upright vehicle over top of the MS. Driving.. that's a different story.

I just don't get it... I detest climbing up in the larger vehicles (don't get me wrong I don't think I would enjoy a roadster as my daily driver either because getting down in them as a big guy... As in tall... If quite difficult) and kind average car height to be most preferable.

 

[bonnie]

I just don't get it... I detest climbing up in the larger vehicles (don't get me wrong I don't think I would enjoy a roadster as my daily driver either because getting down in them as a big guy... As in tall... If quite difficult) and kind average car height to be most preferable.

Good thing we have different types of vehicles for different people and their preferences . I plan on keeping my Roadster, with all its 'low to the ground and impossible to gracefully get in and out of' & look forward to the X at the same time. And it appears you'd prefer something in between the two of those.