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SW version 2021.4.12 - hopeless (in Aus at least)

Wanted to share my experiences after a lot of driving in the past 72 hours with this software. For context I have a Model S P100D with HW3, MCU2 and FSD.

I drove from Sydney to Beechworth VIC and back. Up and down the Hume. Overall, I would say the autopilot experience has never been worse.

Phantom braking - the first infuriating development is that on about 70% of occasions when on AP and passing a truck, the car suddenly slows as if the truck (in the left lane) is an obstacle. Very annoying (and often unnerving) and not popular with the people behind me passing the same truck...

Navigate on Autopilot - for the entire length of the drive on the Hume, NOA would randomly toggle on and off with the accompanying chimes, sometimes more than once in a minute. Rendering it completely useless.

Auto lane changes - completely inconsistent and unreliable. Moving right out of the cruising lane into the passing lane works on most occasions (usually not automatically but if initiated by me with the indicator). But, moving left out of the passing lane is only available about 25% of the time - and even then, the car aborts the move and lurches back to the passing lane during about half of those changes. For the other 75%, you just sit there in the passing lane with the left blinker going and nothing happens. Even with 100’s of meters of separation from the nearest car. The only way to change lanes is to disengage a/p, change lanes manually and then reengage a/p.

My wife’s model X (with HW2.0 and no FSD but EAP (not FSD) had the same issues with lane changes the last time I drove it on the highway. Had not seen the other issues but have not tired it with this SW version.

Is this a RHD/ Aus thing? Are other people experiencing these issues. It’s really disappointing after all these years.
 
Just a random thought: It is possible for the sensors to become misaligned. At least with older HW1 cars, assume still the same with newer cars too. It is possible that misalignment could contribute to the above problems.

I haven't noticed any problems, but then again I have HW1 and MCU1, so this might not mean anything.
 
Phantom braking has been a thing for years, even when just using basic cruise control it can do it (and does do it), I don't use even just Cruise Control for this very reason....which is pretty depressing when you think about it.
Yeah. I’ve seen it for years with overpasses, large signs above the road. But never from trucks in the next lane. This is different. But you’re right, even (dumb) cruise control would be better than this.
 
I drive the full length of the Federal Highway and a solid chunk of the Hume every Friday northbound & Sunday southbound. It's in a 2020 Fremont SR+ currently on 2021.4.12. Got a bit of experience here.

Phantom braking - the first infuriating development is that on about 70% of occasions when on AP and passing a truck, the car suddenly slows as if the truck (in the left lane) is an obstacle. Very annoying (and often unnerving) and not popular with the people behind me passing the same truck...
That's been going on for a few versions. It likes to match the speed of another vehicle on the freeway. It doesn't know that you want to overtake. Originally I thought it was because it was programmed for LHD cars and it didn't want to overtake on the right. Someone elsewhere pointed out it mostly only happens when there's an intersection coming up. And on the Hume south of Medway Rivulet/Sutton Forest, they're damned everywhere!

Navigate on Autopilot - for the entire length of the drive on the Hume, NOA would randomly toggle on and off with the accompanying chimes, sometimes more than once in a minute. Rendering it completely useless.
That's because NoA is only meant to work on Motorways (M roads). NSW falsely designated the Hume Highway south of Medway Rivulet as an M road (M31) instead of what it really is (a divided highway - an A road). Heck, at the very end of the grade-separated section there's a sign saying End M31 Start A31 but immediately after it there's a kilometre distance board with M31 at the top.

NoA freaks out as it approaches any intersection or highway crossover, thinking 'WTF, this is supposed to be a grade separated M road!" and dings from NoA to Autosteer. Then as soon as you pass, it dings from Autosteer to NoA. Like I said, they're damned everywhere.

There's no practical difference between the two in my experience, where you have to confirm lane changes, so just stick to Autosteer.

Auto lane changes - completely inconsistent and unreliable. Moving right out of the cruising lane into the passing lane works on most occasions (usually not automatically but if initiated by me with the indicator). But, moving left out of the passing lane is only available about 25% of the time - and even then, the car aborts the move and lurches back to the passing lane during about half of those changes. For the other 75%, you just sit there in the passing lane with the left blinker going and nothing happens. Even with 100’s of meters of separation from the nearest car. The only way to change lanes is to disengage a/p, change lanes manually and then reengage a/p.
While I don't use NoA, the auto lane change is particularly bad on older roads nowadays. But it happens even on the Hume.
 
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P100D_Me

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Nov 12, 2018
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Yeah. I’ve seen it for years with overpasses, large signs above the road. But never from trucks in the next lane. This is different. But you’re right, even (dumb) cruise control would be better than this.
I don't understand why Tesla doesn't have the option to operate the cruise control in 'dumb mode' or smart mode where it does monitor for vehicles....and err over passes!
 
Phantom braking has been a thing for years, even when just using basic cruise control it can do it (and does do it), I don't use even just Cruise Control for this very reason....which is pretty depressing when you think about it.
Something is seriously wrong when tesla are happy to convince people with cash for future “full self driving” but cannot even get a basic cruise control to work as well as every other car maker on the planet.
 

P100D_Me

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Nov 12, 2018
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I agree Paul, and it is a dilemma I face when looking at my TSLA stock, one day will enough people realise that most of what comes out of Elon's mouth is hot air and the brand will lose its appeal. I often think to myself I wish this car (my car) was made by another company, the worry for Tesla is that is fast becoming the reality, each year that 'Tesla Killer' comes closer to reality. If the Porsche Taycan wasn't priced so offensively in Australia I'd probably consider it over a Plaid S (which has some stupid changes that turned me right off).
I have a several cars but I choose the Tesla 90% of the time because it is so good in many ways and I learn to live with the quirks, it is a shame that the software side of it feels like it is run by a bunch of kids who previously worked on phone apps.
 
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Something is seriously wrong when tesla are happy to convince people with cash for future “full self driving” but cannot even get a basic cruise control to work as well as every other car maker on the planet.
in 2021 it's also seriously wrong not to have even basic functionality of the wipers working correctly as well. ...sorry to mention the wipers again! just get rid of the whole 'Deep Rain' neural net rain drop stupidity.
 
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P100D_Me

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Nov 12, 2018
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Australia
It's a double edged sword, rolling out new ideas to end users 'as beta products' keeps them ahead, traditional manufacturers would have canned the neural net rain sensing crapola before it make it to production, too late for Tesla as it was already in production vehicles (half baked, but in production). The mindset is any problem can be fixed in software, but as the rain sensing wipers are proving that isn't the case, all to save on a $1 IR sensor, crazy stuff.
 
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Wol747

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Aug 26, 2017
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I get exactly the same problems as the OP - especially the aborted lane changes when trying to go back to the slower lane - and the abort is much more of a jerk than the move into the outside lane which itself isn't smooth.
I hope that we get the FSD Beta soon and that it's one hell of a lot better than the bugridden software we have now. What really incenses me is the way that Tesla appears to think that everything is A1 at the moment - it's far from A1 IMO.
 
Same problems here. I'm delving a little deeper into the systems using my canserver and some custom software I co-wrote and on the M31/A31, the auto lane change system (ALC) when driving in the right lane is flipping rapidly between seeing a left lane and seeing no lanes. Despite excellent lane visibility. When in the left lane, it mostly sees a right lane available. Hence going from left to right is mostly OK, but returning to the slow lane is fraught with instability. You'll also notice that AP in Nav mode will switch out of nav mode every time an unprotected crossing/intersection comes up on that "motorway". Tesla will always err on the side of caution, hence won't allow it to play motorway on a non-motorway grade road. which, quite frankly, is the right way to deal with this as annoying as it is.

I'm also seeing the occasional slowdowns when passing other cars or trucks - most of the time if you look at the dash visualisation, you'll see the car/truck being passed incorrectly painted as slightly across the road marker line, even though in reality it isn't. I don't know if that's an issue with RH/LH drive translation of the neural network behaviour, or a misalignment in the cameras. I don't really see how camera alignment would have any effect on detecting whether the car is visible left or over the middle line marker... odd.

In terms of other phantom braking, I very rarely get them now that I never drive with follow distance set to less than 3. On 1, phantom braking is as bad as it ever was. on 3 or higher, no problems. And on motorways, you really want to be at 7 anyway due to the amount of gravel thrown up by the cars ahead... especially on the M/A31....
 
Something is seriously wrong when tesla are happy to convince people with cash for future “full self driving” but cannot even get a basic cruise control to work as well as every other car maker on the planet.

Implementing basic cruise control is a distraction and a waste of time. Tesla AutoPilot team are solving full autonomy via vision and deep learning. It's the only way that will eventually work even if its incredibly difficult to predict timelines. I understand you are frustrated at having high expectations for your money spent on FSD 4-5 years ago but that's the risk you took. Moreover, I'm sure used the other convenience features as part of the FSD package such as Summon, Self Park, Auto-Lane change NoAP etc so to claim you got zero benefit for the money you spent is a lie.

Wanted to share my experiences after a lot of driving in the past 72 hours with this software. For context I have a Model S P100D with HW3, MCU2 and FSD.

I drove from Sydney to Beechworth VIC and back. Up and down the Hume. Overall, I would say the autopilot experience has never been worse.

Phantom braking - the first infuriating development is that on about 70% of occasions when on AP and passing a truck, the car suddenly slows as if the truck (in the left lane) is an obstacle. Very annoying (and often unnerving) and not popular with the people behind me passing the same truck...

Navigate on Autopilot - for the entire length of the drive on the Hume, NOA would randomly toggle on and off with the accompanying chimes, sometimes more than once in a minute. Rendering it completely useless.

Auto lane changes - completely inconsistent and unreliable. Moving right out of the cruising lane into the passing lane works on most occasions (usually not automatically but if initiated by me with the indicator). But, moving left out of the passing lane is only available about 25% of the time - and even then, the car aborts the move and lurches back to the passing lane during about half of those changes. For the other 75%, you just sit there in the passing lane with the left blinker going and nothing happens. Even with 100’s of meters of separation from the nearest car. The only way to change lanes is to disengage a/p, change lanes manually and then reengage a/p.

My wife’s model X (with HW2.0 and no FSD but EAP (not FSD) had the same issues with lane changes the last time I drove it on the highway. Had not seen the other issues but have not tired it with this SW version.

Is this a RHD/ Aus thing? Are other people experiencing these issues. It’s really disappointing after all these years.
Phantom braking you are describing happens when there is a motorway entrance mapped and you pass another car going much faster. The hard coded rules assume that the car's to the side of you lane will end and it needs to merge. You'll notice the car is highlighted a different shade which means AP is tracking against that vehicle. If you press the accelerator slightly until it changes colour again, your car will pass without braking.

Auto Lane changes require the system to be confident that the other lane is available for use. If it hasn't seen other cars for a while it doesn't let you auto lane change

NoAP will only engage when the highway is marked as a proper motorway without any cross streets. This is the problem with AU mapping in that it sees many side streets that connect directly to the motorway.
 
I agree that the Lane change to the left/slow lane is extremely dodgy. I try to focus on the visualisation of the left hand lane markings and in all but the clearest sunny day the lane marking comes and goes at random. I can only assume that the paint we use on our roads is not as clear as the American paint :). Lane changes to the right, however, are near 100% perfect during the day, but not so good at night.
I always hold the steering firmly when auto changing to the left, so that I am ready to override the abort before it becomes a total fail.

BTW, this problem is not a new issue with the latest firmware, it has been like that since I bought the car in 2019.
 
Implementing basic cruise control is a distraction and a waste of time. Tesla AutoPilot team are solving full autonomy via vision and deep learning. It's the only way that will eventually work even if its incredibly difficult to predict timelines. I understand you are frustrated at having high expectations for your money spent on FSD 4-5 years ago but that's the risk you took. Moreover, I'm sure used the other convenience features as part of the FSD package such as Summon, Self Park, Auto-Lane change NoAP etc so to claim you got zero benefit for the money you spent is a lie.


Phantom braking you are describing happens when there is a motorway entrance mapped and you pass another car going much faster. The hard coded rules assume that the car's to the side of you lane will end and it needs to merge. You'll notice the car is highlighted a different shade which means AP is tracking against that vehicle. If you press the accelerator slightly until it changes colour again, your car will pass without braking.

Auto Lane changes require the system to be confident that the other lane is available for use. If it hasn't seen other cars for a while it doesn't let you auto lane change

NoAP will only engage when the highway is marked as a proper motorway without any cross streets. This is the problem with AU mapping in that it sees many side streets that connect directly to the motorway.
I’ve never purchased FSD, fyi. A working cruise control is not unreasonable given the 5 years of promises that the wait is worth it, although I guess the fact that my seat tried to squash me twice today is another one of those things I have to live for to make time for engineers to create fsd and games. A car that doesnt slam the brakes on for any particular reason on a straight road would also be an appreciated interim measure for the next decade.
In my opinion, tesla has forgotten its orignal objective, and that was to create low cost environment saving EV’s for the masses. The sheer cost (hardware and software) of this journey into fsd is making that low cost EV impossible.
 
I headed up the Hume between Melbourne and Bright over the weekend (X75D/MCU1/HW3/2020.48.37.1) and experienced the same as OP. I did note that the repetitive switching between NoA and AutoSteer was mostly due to cross roads as QBN_PC called out.
I had the same fights at many lane changes to the left - sometimes it seemed to cancel the move if an off (or on?) ramp was coming up - but I might have been dreaming - I struggled to see a pattern. There were only a handful of phantom braking moments usually countered by an awkward fistful of acceleration.
What was consistent though was the embarassment, the comments from my other half and my poor explanation of what had happened..
Oh, I was also silly enough to have left the Traffic Light beta setting on which was maybe fun for the first few intersections but the constant unnecessary slow-downs at green intersections got old pretty quickly. I'd never actually bothered to turn it off until I came up behind a few well-lit trucks on the Hume at night and found it continuously tried to slow the car down for "mobile" intersections.
Bring on v11+ :)
 
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P100D_Me

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Nov 12, 2018
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Implementing basic cruise control is a distraction and a waste of time.
Probably less of a distraction but FAR more useful than a fart simulator.

Like another poster above, I don't have FSD in my car and because of how dangerous the cruise control works I don't use that either, I have visions of being rear ended due to phantom braking and the car being off the road for 6+ months because of Tesla's wonderful parts supply chain.
 
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Vostok

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Jul 1, 2017
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Phantom braking - the first infuriating development is that on about 70% of occasions when on AP and passing a truck, the car suddenly slows as if the truck (in the left lane) is an obstacle. Very annoying (and often unnerving) and not popular with the people behind me passing the same truck...
I don’t have autopilot, but usually have 1-2 phantom braking events on any long highway drive. Very annoying and disconcerting. Luckily none have triggered anything more serious.

If overtaking something, I would recommend keeping your foot depressed a little on the accelerator. The car won’t brake if your foot is in the accelerator.
 
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