Swapping Model 3P for X/S?

[mswlogo]

I'm kind of half wishing I bought a Model S/X instead a Model 3.

A friend bought a Model 3 last August and I was instantly hooked. I had a Performance Model 3 (Stealth) 2 months later.

We had 2011 VW CC for my wife (a manual stick) and 2017 Jeep Summit.

We frequently travel to a cabin on weekends 120 miles away. And will do 300 miles on a weekend.

We one vehicle that tows a fair amount. At least 5000 lbs. For a boat and a pretty beefy trailer (GVWR 5000 lbs). I don't have to tow far or very often.

So we replaced the VW and Kept the Jeep. We try to use the Model 3 as much as possibly. But we often have to bring the Jeep to tow. Or just haul more stuff and people. Jeep handles 4 adults and 2 dogs just fine. Model 3 does not.

I did recently get loaned a Model S and loved it.

Never even drove an X or S before test driving and buying the Model 3. Price on S/X was staggering as well as insurance.

Prices have come down a bit on S and X.

I would not trade the Model 3 and sell it private it. Based on what I've seen I don't think it would be that bad.

Any way questions on S/X.

The FWD scare the daylights out of me with all the issues as well as issues with gaskets deteriorating.
Since the Model S is cheaper, faster, longer range, can still tow the same as an X, would a S fill the bill?

One issue is clearance. For deep snow and some areas we like to travel. My Jeep has air suspension and I can raise it 4 inches. It comes in handy sometimes. Can X or S do that?

With the disappearing Service plans I'm tempted to get a used private sale S or X that has it. But I'm also concerned long term if no service plans if I should invest more in Tesla at all.

My experience with the Model S was short. It was like a 2015-sh? 85D. Really liked it. It felt more luxurious and quieter. Is it appropriate to think a Model S or X is more luxurious and quieter than a Model 3? I consider my Jeep Summit quite a big more luxurious and way quieter than my Jeep Summit (if you've never been in one, please keep comment at bay). It's not considered high luxury but it's as quiet as a Cadillac. All acoustic glass and Noise Cancelation. 19 speakers, 10" sub 800 watt, Car Play doesn't hurt either.

But the Model S felt similar to the Jeep. I really liked the dark suede roof liner (that's what my Jeep has). Really gives a sense of warmth/comfort.

I certainly need to test drive.

I'm also concerned about less reliability on Model S/X vs Model 3. But based on Model 3 issues, it doesn't seem much better than Model 3. I've already had my rear roof glass replaced. I know Model S had a lot of drive failures. Not sure what year, if any finally got past that. I know door handles are big issue, and suspension. But I don't know what years those issue belong too.

What year Model S avoids (Drive Motor, And Door Handle issues). I know some years had improvements on noise level as well. Except for FWD (which I might take a chance on), I don't see to many issues posted. I know many folks have had smooth experience with both Model S and X even on earlier years.

I also see a fair number of folks moving from a Model S to a 3 (Performance). I appreciate some folks liking the nimble handling of the Model 3. But it's just not that critical for us. I know it varies a lot on Model S/X depending on options too. I felt nothing wrong with the 85D I drove. And it felt plenty fast too.

 

[Sandiegodoug]

I have a m3 and an x. The 3 is more fun but the x more practical. Had x over 2 years, no issues with fwd. we have 6 seater, which would work with 4 adults and 2 dogs with minimal luggage. It has air suspension and gets up pretty high in the “very high “ setting,
Not sure exact inches. Keep in mind although it’s capable of towing 5000, really cuts your range. My brother has an s and wished he’d gotten the x because much easier to get in and out of, especially for us older people. I love my model 3 , but for road trips, the x is much more comfortable.
I do own a Jeep Wrangler rubicon that beats the crap out of me on the highway, but I’m sure your summit is a pleasure to drive.

 

[mswlogo]

Range on towing is not an issue. It’s typically to local dump/land fill. Maybe Home Depot to pick up plywood, Bring boat to Marina for service. I don’t have a camper or bring boat on trips.

Typically it’s 2 adults, 2 dogs and luggage for the weekend. If 4 adults and 2 dogs it’s no luggage. Jeep Summit would be similar capacity wise. I would expect the X to be even a little better depending on seat options. But I guess even though S is a hatch back 4 adults and 2 dogs wouldn’t work.

Thanks for the info.

 

[gangzoom]

The FWD scare the daylights out of me with all the issues as well as issues with gaskets deteriorating.

What issues have you heard of?

Our FWDs are open/closed daily at least 4 times, no problems in 27k, and they feel like the most well engineered part of the car.

Ours is also a 6 seater, 6 adults fit in it fine with no complaints from anyone. The S is actually really cramped for rear passengers space, especially for adults.

A Model 3 seems like a toy car when you get use all the space in a X, if your even close to 6ft in height your love the extra feeling of space the windscreen gives you.

I really want the performance Model 3, but no way would I switch our 75D X for one, for us as a family the loss of utility is far morr noticable than better range/speed.

 

[ecarfan]

We one vehicle that tows a fair amount. At least 5000 lbs.

Tesla clearly states that the X towing weight limit is 5000 lbs. If you tow more than that, the X is not the right vehicle for you.

My Jeep has air suspension and I can raise it 4 inches. It comes in handy sometimes. Can X or S do that?

The S/X come standard with air suspension. The range of travel is about that amount.

Since the Model S is cheaper, faster, longer range, can still tow the same as an X, would a S fill the bill?

I am not sure why you think the S can “tow the same as an X”. There is no towing option for the S. Yes, some owners have installed a hitch on their S. That does not mean it is a good idea use an S to tow weights in the range you have stated that you need.

I certainly need to test drive.

You certainly do. But as I have noted, I don’t think an X is the right vehicle for you given your towing requirements.

 

[mswlogo]

Tesla clearly states that the X towing weight limit is 5000 lbs. If you tow more than that, the X is not the right vehicle for you.

The S/X come standard with air suspension. The range of travel is about that amount.

I am not sure why you think the S can “tow the same as an X”. There is no towing option for the S. Yes, some owners have installed a hitch on their S. That does not mean it is a good idea use an S to tow weights in the range you have stated that you need.

You certainly do. But as I have noted, I don’t think an X is the right vehicle for you given your towing requirements.

Thanks for the info.

Yeah, I thought I had read the S could officially tow, but I now realize it can't.

I poorly worded my towing requirements. 5000 lbs limit should be fine. The utility trailer is rated for GVWR of 5000 lbs but I never load it up that much. It probably weighs around 2000lbs itself and at most I ever put would be around 2000lbs. So my max ever should be 4000 lbs. Occasionally I might have pushed it a bit more than that. No highway, 40 mph max, about 5 miles away.

I have a lake front property and the prevailing wind washes stuff up all the time, ugh. It's usually wet leaves, pine needles and sticks. Maybe an occasional dock, raft or boat washes up too . I fill the trailer 3-4 times a year and haul it to local land fill. Boat is ~4500 lbs with trailer. And most I tow it is to the other side of the lake (~5 miles, ~30 mph).

My Jeep is rated for 6500 lbs (I think). But anything over 2000lbs is supposed to have a weight distribution hitch. But I have towed with out it because my requirements (distance and speed was so low).

So I think the X should handle it.

Oh, my Trailer has Electric Brakes and the Jeep is wired for a Electric Brake controller that I bought from a 3rd party and just plugged it in. Does the X have that wiring? Not a show stopper but convenient.

My boat has surge brakes, which is another reason I didn't have a weight distribution hitch which is tricky to do with surge brakes.

I've seen way larger trailers posted here that probably also have a lot more air resistance than my utility trailer.

Here is the trailer.

 

[mswlogo]

Just ordered Long Range X Raven in MSM/Black

Test drove X and they let me take it home so I could test FWD in my garage, which worked flawlessly as well as hatch.

I hope it's as reliable as my Model 3 has been, which is sale pending.

 

[Sandiegodoug]

Had ours 2 1/2 years, been basically perfect
Plan to keep it 15 more years

 

[mswlogo]

I ordered an X (MSM with Black interior, 20” included wheels) But I have a few questions.

I’ve seen a few references to “sunshade included”. First, is this just the black cloth ones you see in the store? My understanding is they are no longer included (no biggy). But I was curious if this was something more like a retractable shade. Does such an after market thing exist? The front windshield is very cool, but I worry it could be a bit much at times if the sun is in a bad position.

Is it true the Windshield is solar glass (gets darker in sunlight). Does all roof glass do that?

When using our Jeep we’d put our two small dogs in the very back. Windows were heavily tinted. Is that feasible in the X too?Does it get to hot back there? I tested a 7 seater and noticed rear ducts on the side, do the ducts exist with 5 seater?

I tested a Performance X. Loved the bolsters on the seats. I assume the bolsters are the same on Non Performance.

I know about the software bugs on Model 3. Curious if some are universal to all Tesla’s (I assume they are), like:

1) getting blasted by radio at the of a phone call?

2) Phantom braking?

3) TeslaCam causing cars to throw errors if disk full or corrupted?

4) Auto Wipers? The two levels might help a lot on the X. Odd there is only one level on the 3.

5) Quirky AutoHigh Beams? Assume that will be the same.

Any bugs unique to model X I should be prepared for?

Any recommended Sunshade (for parking) on the X? Could be unwieldy to install. Probably only up to visors.

I have Maxpider mats, Tuxmat Frunk/Trunk mats. Front and back sunscreens (mostly for acoustics reasons). Should I get the same for X?

What is the Trailer Tow bar for in the shop?

My wife complained about driving Model 3 and needing to take eyes off road to operate screen. The only two critical safety/driving things was Wipers and HVAC (defrost). Wipers looks solved on the X. I assume HVAC is the same. Looks like even a longer reach in the X too.

I was told Extended Service Plan is cheaper by $1000 if you buy it with car? Or is that within 180 days?

Is FSD after purchase the same as with purchase right now? Web site ordering page no longer shows the after purchase price. Just shows the $6K price with purchase. Has there been an “FSD” Sale of below $6K recently on vehicles with included AP?

It appears there is still some Tax Credit before Sept 30. Both Federal ~$1900 and MA $1500. Do I have that right?

If I get a Raven, I assume it must have HW3? How do I check an X? I know about the not so trustworthy video format check.

 

[ecarfan]

Is it true the Windshield is solar glass (gets darker in sunlight). Does all roof glass do that?

No Tesla has glass that dynamically changes tint based on light levels.

 

[ecarfan]

Oh, my Trailer has Electric Brakes and the Jeep is wired for a Electric Brake controller that I bought from a 3rd party and just plugged it in. Does the X have that wiring? Not a show stopper but convenient.

Yes the X has the wiring for an electric brake controller. Search this specific X forum and you will find a detailed thread about how to install one. It’s not difficult. I have a Tekonsha P3 controller in my X.

Actually, there is a link to that thread in my personal blog post at Towing with a Tesla

 

[mswlogo]

No Tesla has glass that dynamically changes tint based on light levels.

You say no, but describe exactly what I said?

 

[mswlogo]

I think you're mistakenly reading ecarfan's post and inserting a comma after the no. No auto-tinting glass available

Ahh, good catch.

Thx

 

[jebinc]

I'm kind of half wishing I bought a Model S/X instead a Model 3.

A friend bought a Model 3 last August and I was instantly hooked. I had a Performance Model 3 (Stealth) 2 months later.

We had 2011 VW CC for my wife (a manual stick) and 2017 Jeep Summit.

We frequently travel to a cabin on weekends 120 miles away. And will do 300 miles on a weekend.

We one vehicle that tows a fair amount. At least 5000 lbs. For a boat and a pretty beefy trailer (GVWR 5000 lbs). I don't have to tow far or very often.

So we replaced the VW and Kept the Jeep. We try to use the Model 3 as much as possibly. But we often have to bring the Jeep to tow. Or just haul more stuff and people. Jeep handles 4 adults and 2 dogs just fine. Model 3 does not.

I did recently get loaned a Model S and loved it.

Never even drove an X or S before test driving and buying the Model 3. Price on S/X was staggering as well as insurance.

Prices have come down a bit on S and X.

I would not trade the Model 3 and sell it private it. Based on what I've seen I don't think it would be that bad.

Any way questions on S/X.

The FWD scare the daylights out of me with all the issues as well as issues with gaskets deteriorating.
Since the Model S is cheaper, faster, longer range, can still tow the same as an X, would a S fill the bill?

One issue is clearance. For deep snow and some areas we like to travel. My Jeep has air suspension and I can raise it 4 inches. It comes in handy sometimes. Can X or S do that?

With the disappearing Service plans I'm tempted to get a used private sale S or X that has it. But I'm also concerned long term if no service plans if I should invest more in Tesla at all.

My experience with the Model S was short. It was like a 2015-sh? 85D. Really liked it. It felt more luxurious and quieter. Is it appropriate to think a Model S or X is more luxurious and quieter than a Model 3? I consider my Jeep Summit quite a big more luxurious and way quieter than my Jeep Summit (if you've never been in one, please keep comment at bay). It's not considered high luxury but it's as quiet as a Cadillac. All acoustic glass and Noise Cancelation. 19 speakers, 10" sub 800 watt, Car Play doesn't hurt either.

But the Model S felt similar to the Jeep. I really liked the dark suede roof liner (that's what my Jeep has). Really gives a sense of warmth/comfort.

I certainly need to test drive.

I'm also concerned about less reliability on Model S/X vs Model 3. But based on Model 3 issues, it doesn't seem much better than Model 3. I've already had my rear roof glass replaced. I know Model S had a lot of drive failures. Not sure what year, if any finally got past that. I know door handles are big issue, and suspension. But I don't know what years those issue belong too.

What year Model S avoids (Drive Motor, And Door Handle issues). I know some years had improvements on noise level as well. Except for FWD (which I might take a chance on), I don't see to many issues posted. I know many folks have had smooth experience with both Model S and X even on earlier years.

I also see a fair number of folks moving from a Model S to a 3 (Performance). I appreciate some folks liking the nimble handling of the Model 3. But it's just not that critical for us. I know it varies a lot on Model S/X depending on options too. I felt nothing wrong with the 85D I drove. And it felt plenty fast too.

Disclosure: I'm a bit late to this tread and didn't yet read it in it's entirety....

We have similar needs. Our haulers are two Subaru Outback's. I like the nimbleness and throwability of the 3 and wouldn't want to replace it, and the Subaru, with an X or S (at this time). So, what we just did was upgrade the 2018 3.6R Outback to a 2020 XT (Turbo) with increased towing to 3500 lbs. Total cost for the conversion was $8000. For use, that was better than taking a bath on the 3 and losing a Subaru - replacing both with just one vehicle. They each have their place and we didn't want to try to make one vehicle a compromise on either side of the equation. YMMV.

Edit: I just read today's post and see you have purchased the X. Congrats and best of luck with it!

 

[mswlogo]

Disclosure: I'm a bit late to this tread and didn't yet read it in it's entirety....

We have similar needs. Our haulers are two Subaru Outback's. I like the nimbleness and throwability of the 3 and wouldn't want to replace it, and the Subaru, with an X or S (at this time). So, what we just did was upgrade the 2018 3.6R Outback to a 2020 XT (Turbo) with increased towing to 3500 lbs. Total cost for the conversion was $8000. For use, that was better than taking a bath on the 3 and losing a Subaru - replacing both with just one vehicle. They each have their place and we didn't want to try to make one vehicle a compromise on either side of the equation. YMMV.

Edit: I just read today's post and see you have purchased the X. Congrats and best of luck with it!

What ever you do, don't take an Extended Test Drive of an X like I did

 

[jebinc]

What ever you do, don't take an Extended Test Drive of an X like I did

You have a Performance loaner, yes? I look forward to your report after a few months of ownership. Again, congrats on the new X purchase! When will it arrive in your driveway?

 

[mswlogo]

You have a Performance loaner, yes? I look forward to your report after a few months of ownership. Again, congrats on the new X purchase! When will it arrive in your driveway?

It won't be a Performance, I only got Performance on the 3 because of Free Super Charging and Faster Delivery. No regrets, but I don't need that crazy performance.

Order says 3 weeks, but orders have been running behind that. If I get it by Sept 30 I think I'll get almost $3500 tax credit between Fed and MA. Only option I'm getting is Color. But X's are all now completely loaded with everything.

Loaner was a Performance. Never even put it in Performance mode.

 

[Uncle Paul]

My X tows better (except for range) than my previous Grand Cherokee V8.
Has more torque feels more relaxed.
I towed in my Jeep once in the mountains and the transmission needed to be rebuilt afterwards

X has a flat floor cover in the rear that makes everything level and somewhat reduces noise. If you remove it, you will find you have much more storage area for stuff than in your Jeep. Still room for more stuff in the frunk.

My dogs loved riding in the Model X more than the Jeep. They were more relaxed and enjoyed to ride. In the Jeep they seemed more anxious and moving around excited.

Think you are going to love your new Tesla.

 

[mswlogo]

My X tows better (except for range) than my previous Grand Cherokee V8.
Has more torque feels more relaxed.
I towed in my Jeep once in the mountains and the transmission needed to be rebuilt afterwards

X has a flat floor cover in the rear that makes everything level and somewhat reduces noise. If you remove it, you will find you have much more storage area for stuff than in your Jeep. Still room for more stuff in the frunk.

My dogs loved riding in the Model X more than the Jeep. They were more relaxed and enjoyed to ride. In the Jeep they seemed more anxious and moving around excited.

Think you are going to love your new Tesla.

What seat package do you have in the X. Did you keep dogs in the Back (behind 2nd Row) on the X?

I noticed reading the manual there are separate AC Controls for 6 & 7 Seat config. I had planned on getting the 5 Seat, rather have the storage (and save money). But I want to be sure dogs are comfy.

Have you used Dog Mode with them in the Back (behind 2nd row)?

I absolutely love Dog Mode in the Model 3. Never really thought I would, but it's kind of a game changer for us.

What year was your Cherokee? Mine is a V6 (had a 2014, 2015 and 2017). It's rated like 6200 lbs but I would not dream of towing that much. It towed 4500 lbs (my boat) "ok". You sure knew it was back there. I did not have a weight distribution hitch like you are supposed to though (anything of 2000 lbs). I only towed it on highway once. It was mostly Engine Limited not handling.

Dogs were fine in any car/suv we had.

If I took the huge full size spare out and removed Jeep's floor board it would have a ton of extra space too. Would actually prefer have the spare.

 

[Sandiegodoug]

We have the 6 seat x and the far rear air conditioning works great, as I have sat in the far back seats many times. There are vents on both sides