@UnpluggedP,
I’m assuming it’s less stiff Level 1 and more stiff to full stiff as you go ‘backwards’ in holes or ‘settings’ (i.e. Level 2, Level 3)?
Ski
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Sway Bars, End Links, and Rear Control Arms Installation & Impression
- Thread starter beastmode13
- Start date
@UnpluggedP,
I’m assuming it’s less stiff Level 1 and more stiff to full stiff as you go ‘backwards’ in holes or ‘settings’ (i.e. Level 2, Level 3)?
Ski
As far as the end links go, the sway bars were engineered and tested without the need of utilizing aftermarket end links. Unlike other cars, the Model 3 utilizes factory spherical ball end links which we consider quite good. The factory end links do not have the deflection/play that some other OEM end links have, nothing squishy with them. Additionally the chassis is square from the factory and the UP sway bars are in plane. When installed properly the cross weight adjustment has negligible impact (very small variances). Since the factory end links are noise free, the correct fixed length and don’t have deflection, we opted to keep with them. We did however find additional benefits in our upgraded firmer durometer bushings (that come standard with the sway bars).
In terms of using adjustable end links, our suspension engineers and consultants we regularly work with are of the opinion that they are not needed in the majority of use cases. For a professionally set up race car that is optimized specifically for a particular race track, fine tuning cross weight using adjustable end links could of course be done to intentionally change the balance for a particular track. However this would be highly specialized cases where already the car is corner balanced to 50% across the diagonals, at which point the starting point would be symmetrical and predictable behavior as a baseline and then adjusting cross weight via end links and coilovers to reach a desired fine tuning result. For most users (street car use and most track users as well) this would be quite an extreme amount of optimization in which there is added introduced risk with end link length variables that could unintentionally make the outcome worse versus better. Since the factory end links are the correct length, have no variability and have no deflection we’d suggest anyone that is not a professional race car driver to keep with stock links to reduce complexity/risk. Although for anyone who does use aftermarket links to their satisfaction, that is great and we are rooting for you! We would definitely love to see an A/B test on the race track with stock end links back to back with aftermarket ones.
In terms of using adjustable end links, our suspension engineers and consultants we regularly work with are of the opinion that they are not needed in the majority of use cases. For a professionally set up race car that is optimized specifically for a particular race track, fine tuning cross weight using adjustable end links could of course be done to intentionally change the balance for a particular track. However this would be highly specialized cases where already the car is corner balanced to 50% across the diagonals, at which point the starting point would be symmetrical and predictable behavior as a baseline and then adjusting cross weight via end links and coilovers to reach a desired fine tuning result. For most users (street car use and most track users as well) this would be quite an extreme amount of optimization in which there is added introduced risk with end link length variables that could unintentionally make the outcome worse versus better. Since the factory end links are the correct length, have no variability and have no deflection we’d suggest anyone that is not a professional race car driver to keep with stock links to reduce complexity/risk. Although for anyone who does use aftermarket links to their satisfaction, that is great and we are rooting for you! We would definitely love to see an A/B test on the race track with stock end links back to back with aftermarket ones.
Sorry for the confusion on terminology. I did not want to say soft vs hard because the softest setting is more firm than the stock bar so using soft is misleading. But in context to what I say saying level 1 would be softer of the 3, level 2 would be middle, and level 3 would be the most firm of the 3.
Generally speaking we don't foresee most people using the firmest settings anytime soon and probably a soft front and middle rear is right for most users. The firmest rear setting and the middle and firmer front settings are more future-proofing as more people move to full slicks and as we introduce our widebody and more downforce at which point people may want those levels for track use.
@UnpluggedP,
Thank you for the specification. Exactly why I didn’t use the word ‘Soft’ as well. Appreciate everything you guys are doing as well as your follow ups!
Ski
@UnpluggedP Good product deserves some love.
BTW, can you update the product description to include the rate for stock performance rear bar, which is 20mm.
Seeing this makes me want front camber adjustment arms so bad! I have no clue what my car is at precisely, but no way can you get even wear + full grip out of front tires with only -1 degrees camber up front.
@Beastmode - good call, back when we were doing this we had the specs and then somehow didn't document it. We will get that info together and up online for the P3D stock rear bar.
dmd2005
Active Member
MPP Corkscrew Model 3 Front Upper Control Arms
Just got an email saying the MPP UCA is available to pre-order.
Just got an email saying the MPP UCA is available to pre-order.
Here's a little behind the scenes of our billet adjustable front upper control arms (production version).
As the photos show, we are not sparing any expenses on these and have spent all year working on them. As usual, we have some major engineering and production talent behind the scenes for our development. For those that don't know our background at UP, we have 19 years running Bulletproof Automotive which builds and supports time attack cars around the world.
These will be the same tested parts we used on a daily driven street tire Model 3 that ran a 1:58.5 at Buttonwillow back in March with them. Which, btw is a second faster than a 997 Porsche 911 GT2!
We've made some optimizations for production since our March prototypes.
We will have inventory soon.
As the photos show, we are not sparing any expenses on these and have spent all year working on them. As usual, we have some major engineering and production talent behind the scenes for our development. For those that don't know our background at UP, we have 19 years running Bulletproof Automotive which builds and supports time attack cars around the world.
These will be the same tested parts we used on a daily driven street tire Model 3 that ran a 1:58.5 at Buttonwillow back in March with them. Which, btw is a second faster than a 997 Porsche 911 GT2!
We've made some optimizations for production since our March prototypes.
We will have inventory soon.
Attachments
And adjustment range!
I will wait for someone who actually understands these things to explain any advantages/disadvantages between UP and MPP for front camber now that both companies are almost ready
MPP has sealed spherical bearings which is MUCH better than UP's offering.
Look at how the UP FUCA's have completely exposed bearings.
Exposed to elements that will quickly degrade it over time.
Another difference is the method of adjustment. The UP arm is adjusted inboard at the rod ends, which I believe requires the arm to be disassembled from the vehicle, and then you make your adjustment. The MPP arm is adjusted outboard, requires two screws to be loosened/removed, and then you either insert, or remove shims.
So, the MPP arms appear to be better for making track day adjustments, versus the UP arms appearing to be more suited for a set it and forget it setup.
I could be looking at it wrong, but I see a rod end and a jam nut. What I don't see is a method of extending or reducing the length of that rod end without removing the hardware that attaches it to the car. Unless that's not a jam nut, but an adjuster of sorts?
It could be threaded rod with a jam nut. Or it could be a threaded bushing. I noticed in the pics that there is an extra, small hole adjacent and perpendicular to the threaded rod that it looks like has a bolt in it that clamps the threads of the rod end. There is also a slice in the arm parallel to the shaft of the rod end that looks like it allows a clamping action on the threads of the rod (or bushing). I wouldn’t think that those would be necessary or desired with a jam nut.
(Also, I would think a jam nut would be necessary on the threaded rod next to what I think could be a bushing and that is not pictured)
Edited content in parentheses
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