swegman: Car won't turn on (screens are dark)

[swegman]

They still have no idea what is going on. Today, I was told that the logs indicate there may be a resistance problem that could have caused the car to shut down. Or it could be an erroneous reading. The engineers in CA instructed the service center to measure the resistance of each battery cell, and the resistance of each wiring harness and send them the results. So now they are telling me there could be a problem with the 85kWh battery, it could be a problem with the wiring or a loose connection, or it may be a software problem. This is basically what I was told since Thursday. In other words, no progress has been made in narrowing down the cause of the car dying.

At this point, I am very discouraged. The car has been in the shop more than twice as long as I have had it, and I don't see any end in sight. I feel like the service people are gropping in the dark and really don't know what to do. As a result, if I ever get the car back, I don't think I will feel that they actually found the problem and don't think I will feel confident driving the car beyond my immediate home, for fear it will die again. Family and friends keep telling me I should have bought another Lexus instead of this car, which doesn't help the situation.

The iphone app lost touch with the car early this morning, so I assume the car went back to sleep again.

I'm thinking of paying a personal visit to the service center on Tuesday, and then try to call Elon or George. Maybe if they become aware of the situation, something will happen.

 

[Lyon]

They still have no idea what is going on. Today, I was told that the logs indicate there may be a resistance problem that could have caused the car to shut down. Or it could be an erroneous reading. The engineers in CA instructed the service center to measure the resistance of each battery cell, and the resistance of each wiring harness and send them the results. So now they are telling me there could be a problem with the 85kWh battery, it could be a problem with the wiring or a loose connection, or it may be a software problem. This is basically what I was told since Thursday. In other words, no progress has been made in narrowing down the cause of the car dying.

At this point, I am very discouraged. The car has been in the shop more than twice as long as I have had it, and I don't see any end in sight. I feel like the service people are gropping in the dark and really don't know what to do. As a result, if I ever get the car back, I don't think I will feel that they actually found the problem and don't think I will feel confident driving the car beyond my immediate home, for fear it will die again. Family and friends keep telling me I should have bought another Lexus instead of this car, which doesn't help the situation.

The iphone app lost touch with the car early this morning, so I assume the car went back to sleep again.

I'm thinking of paying a personal visit to the service center on Tuesday, and then try to call Elon or George. Maybe if they become aware of the situation, something will happen.

I would totally send an email or private message to GeorgeB to let him know what's going on. At this point it looks like they're doing what they can to figure it out. My sister got a new Passat a while ago and it kept dying during hard left turns. They basically took it apart and found a wire that had been clipped during production. It kept rolling over and grounding out on the block. They fixed it and the car was solid until she sold it earlier this year, it was a 1999. The point is that these things happen in manufacturing but, once fixed, they have no bearing on the car's future reliability.

 

[andrewket]

Measuring each cell will take a long time (what was it - 7k+ cells?). If they suspect the battery pack, why not replace the entire pack and then test the old one on their time, not the OP's.

 

[swegman]

Can someone post or PM me Elon's and George's email addresses. Thanks

 

[carrerascott]

This is really lousy. I would message GeorgeB and email Elon. If this was going on with a "press" car it would be a disaster. They need to find out what's wrong and keep you in the loop, or get you a new car. I don't think Elon would like to hear how this is being handled...

 

[swegman]

For one thing, the service center does not have a spare battery pack. Second, they are not convinced it is the battery. It just as likely could be the wiring or a software bug. I agree measuring 7,000 batteries will take a long time. I also feel that if a person is measuring 7000 plus cells, human error can occur in the testing operation.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The problem is the service center may not have all the expertise to diagnose everything, which is why they have to phone to engineers. They may have to fly over an engineer or ship the car back. But even doing so will not guarantee they will find the issue any quicker, esp. given it's a new one that has not popped up in other cars.

They are going to have to do diagnostics on every subsystem and that's going to take some time.

 

[pguerra]

They still have no idea what is going on. Today, I was told that the logs indicate there may be a resistance problem that could have caused the car to shut down. Or it could be an erroneous reading. The engineers in CA instructed the service center to measure the resistance of each battery cell, and the resistance of each wiring harness and send them the results. So now they are telling me there could be a problem with the 85kWh battery, it could be a problem with the wiring or a loose connection, or it may be a software problem. This is basically what I was told since Thursday. In other words, no progress has been made in narrowing down the cause of the car dying.

At this point, I am very discouraged. The car has been in the shop more than twice as long as I have had it, and I don't see any end in sight. I feel like the service people are gropping in the dark and really don't know what to do. As a result, if I ever get the car back, I don't think I will feel that they actually found the problem and don't think I will feel confident driving the car beyond my immediate home, for fear it will die again. Family and friends keep telling me I should have bought another Lexus instead of this car, which doesn't help the situation.

The iphone app lost touch with the car early this morning, so I assume the car went back to sleep again.

I'm thinking of paying a personal visit to the service center on Tuesday, and then try to call Elon or George. Maybe if they become aware of the situation, something will happen.

Very sorry to hear this. This is a worst case scenario or close to it. Thanks for sharing.

1) Keep the faith. We all rolled the dice buying this car and it could've (and still could) happen to any one of us. For example, I haven't sold my Prius yet so I can keep it around just in case your same situation happens to me.
2) Tell your friends/family to be quiet b/c it doesn't help the situation.
3) Inquire about how long should you give Tesla before it is reasonable to demand a new vehicle. In any event, Tesla should move fast on this one b/c word travels quickly and another negative press article "$100k Tesla Model S - Dead As A Doornail on Day 2" would not help Tesla sales - the lifeblood of the company.

I ran into another Tesla owner with a badly cracked windshield, A/C heater problems screwing up the electronics and another big prob I can't remember. Perhaps they are building a little too fast...

BTW my frunk won't open and they need to replace the manual latch assembly. Appt for repairs is next week. ...bummer b/c I just love driving this car.

 

[Francis Lau]

BTW my frunk won't open and they need to replace the manual latch assembly. Appt for repairs is next week. ...bummer b/c I just love driving this car.

Kinda off topic but I have the same issue too. My frunk was stuck - popped but secondary latch did not release, they adjusted it once soit works but then a few days later, same issue. Now, I am waiting for a part so that the latch can be replaced.

 

[Martini]

I'm thinking of paying a personal visit to the service center on Tuesday, and then try to call Elon or George. Maybe if they become aware of the situation, something will happen.

The car is under active troubleshooting by the service centre. There is no way to rush this process. I can't see any reason how emailing the CEO or other company officers will help the process, and if there is information from the situation that is valuable for them, they should have internal processes to handle that. It's a tough situation, but all you can do is wait.

 

[justaddsun]

Can someone post or PM me Elon's and George's email addresses. Thanks

Just read a post in the delivery section about someone emailing Elon about difficulty financing and getting an email back in 2 hours... Although that may have been b/c it's a finance question

You should be Tesla's number one priority right now for reasons we all know are really vital to how we and the public look at these cars.


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

[swegman]

To all those that say be patient, I ask how you would react if you just paid $105K+ for your vehicle and after you put less than a hundred miles on the car it dies and have to be towed, and the service people keep telling you the car goes to sleep by itself, cannot be woken up until it decides it wants to wake up, and they have no idea why it is doing this.

I have been patient. I have not complained to Tesla or yelled at them. But it is starting to get ridiculous. Service has the car now for 5 days and is no farther along in finding the cause of the problem than they were on day 1. Perhaps if Elon or George gets wind of this they will send an engineer to the site to work on the problem. I can tell you going back and forth between the engineers in CA and the service center is not very efficient and productive for a serious problem like this. Perhaps if an engineer is on site, he/she may be better able to fix the car.

 

[kinddog]

It's a tough situation, but all you can do is wait.

unfortunately, I agree.

I know you are bummed, swegman, but unless you think the Rockville SC is knowingly dragging their feet, or that they just don't care about the situation, then emailing Musk or GB will do nothing but make the situation worse. The folks at Rockville SC will not appreciate that and it won't make them more enthusiastic about fixing your car if you run and tell mom on them.

If I were you, I would make an appointment with them. Make it for a couple days out, maybe Friday. Tell them you want to come by and have a long discussion about what is going on. That will motivate them to work their asses off the next couple of days, and they will also have time to get you some solid answers. Speaking with you over the phone probably only goes so far. Going there in person and staying for a while, introducing yourself to almost everyone who works there, and (most importanly) BEING POLITE AND FRIENDLY, yet firm about your disappointment and expectations, will get you a lot further. At the end of the visit, sit down with them and make out an "action list" of what to expect in the next couple days and weeks. Ask "at what point do lemon laws have to be considered in this situation"? You can even bluff and tell them that your brother-in-law works for the Loudoun Times Mirror and wanted to do a story on the car, but because of this, he can't.

Basically, drop some very big "worry points" to them, but do it with a smile and a "we're in this together" attitude, instead of an adversarial stance. I know this is shocking coming from the one and only Kinddog, but I do know a thing or two about how to get what I want.

At the end of the day, they are paying for a rental car for you, so there is no real inconvenience factor in your life because of this. So while it sucks you don't have your Model S, you gotta remember that life is sometimes a crapshoot. Sh*t happens. But remember it's just a material possession and how you treat people at the end of the day is what really matters. You still have the choice whether to wake up and be happy that you are healthy and alive, or pissed off and angry about a material good.

The Tesla team wishes this didn't happen as much as you do. Your attitude about it can either make it tolerable, or much worse for everyone involved. You have waited an incredibly long time for the car already (I assume you reserved last summer?), so what is a couple more weeks in the big scheme of things?

- - - Updated - - -

Service has the car now for 5 days and is no farther along in finding the cause of the problem than they were on day 1..

just to manage your own expectations and sanity, I think you should start thinking in terms of weeks here, not days.

 

[DFibRL8R]

"You can even bluff and tell them that your brother-in-law works for the Loudoun Times Mirror and wanted to do a story on the car, but because of this, he can't."

Maybe Broder got reassigned to a new gig in Leesburg, Virginia

 

[justaddsun]

Just got an update from swegman and he coincidentally seemed to do a lot of what kinddog recommended this morning at RSC. I'll let him provide the details.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

[AnOutsider]

I know you are bummed, swegman, but unless you think the Rockville SC is knowingly dragging their feet, or that they just don't care about the situation, then emailing Musk or GB will do nothing but make the situation worse. The folks at Rockville SC will not appreciate that and it won't make them more enthusiastic about fixing your car if you run and tell mom on them.

100% agreed. Give them a bit of time to do their thing and reserve judgement.

 

[Jeff Miller]

Swegman, this will be small consolation to you, but if it makes you feel any better I had to take my car to the service center five days after I got it for a power steering issue. They ended up keeping the car for 11 days, during which I had many of the same thoughts that you are having now. In the end they were not able to definitively pinpoint the problem so they replaced the whole steering rack and steering assist motor. It's been working fine since I got it back last week. I think one way to look at your situation is that Tesla has (at least) as great an interest in fixing your car as you do. Their reputation depends on it. For that reason alone, I'm totally confident they are doing their best to to fix your car as quickly as they can, and although it may, unfortunately, take somewhat longer than you like, they will get it fixed. When my car was in the shop, I asked the head of the service center in Chicago (which was great) to keep me updated on a daily basis even if they didn't have any progress to report. They were very good about doing that, calling me once a day to give me an update. Just being kept in the loop made the experience less painful.

 

[Doug_G]

I think you'll find that, in the early days, there will be rare faults that they don't recognize from the symptoms. It may take them a substantial amount of time to diagnose the first time they encounter such a problem (like the "mouse flatulence" thread). Once they understand the problem, that won't happen again. The moment they see the symptoms again they'll be, "oh, we know what that is!" and the problem will be fixed very quickly.

Of course it's inevitably an unfortunate and annoying inconvenience for the first customer affected... but I doubt there's anything they can do to prevent that.

 

[swegman]

I went to the Service Center this morning and met with the manager. I had met him when I picked up the car and found him to be very pleasant and he was again today. He remembered me as I walked in and expressed his regret at what is happening.

It was a friendly meeting. I went there for several reasons. I wanted to get a better idea of what is happening and I wanted to make sure they understood that I was not blaming them for the situation.

They explained to me that they do not have an idea what is causing the problem with the car. The car has repeatedly gone to sleep on its own, and there is nothing they can do to wake it up, other than wait until the car decides it wants to wake up. Nothing they do wakes the car when it goes to sleep.

The logs indicate there were some error messages between the 12 volt battery communication and the 85kWh battery. But they are unable to replicate the errors or figure out its cause or make the car generate the error messages. When the car is awake, it operates properly and without error messages.

They informed me that headquarters is aware of the problem and discusses it with them several times a day. I was also told that if they can't fix the car in the next day or two, an engineer will be sent from CA to the service center.

The way things go right now, they run diagnostic tests and forward the results to the CA engineers, who then advise them further what to do. This procedure is somewhat inefficient, as they must wait for instructions before trying the next thing.

I told them I do not blame them, and have repeatedly told people on the 877 telephone number that I do not blame the people at the service center. I wanted them to understand that. They are as frustrated as I am. It is as if the car is possessed, as it goes to sleep and wakes up on its own, and will not respond to any of their attempts to wake the car up.

At present they think there may be a bad connection somewhere, but have not been able to find one. Alternatively, they say it could be a software issue, and if that is the case, only the CA engineers will be able to determine that. I was told that a software update was in the works, and that perhaps that is why it is taking so long for the CA engineers to get back to them.

I will wait a few more days to see whether any progress is made.

 

[kinddog]

another point... i know you (swegman) think there should be real engineers/techs in the service centers... not just a "hands team" acting out what the engineers in Palo Alto are directing them to do. That is a fair point, but the fact that this structure doesn't exist isn't negligence or cheapness on Tesla's part. Rather, it's due to the fact that they are a start up. Right now, the economics of the situation says they need all their engineers in California. This is, for now, the most efficient and effective service structure and use of their extremely limited resources. it wouldn't surprise me if a year from now, they have an engineer at each service station. but at that time, they might be running at an actual profit.

basically, they can't afford it right now.

that said, most people have had GREAT service experiences so far. so your case is very unique and serious. but that's no reason for them to re-write their entire service model.

basically, it just sucks being you right now. grab a bottle of wine and get drunk or something...