Switch to a Porsche Taycan or Audi E-Tron GT?

[M3PBOSS]

As many of you will know i have been locked into a battle with Tesla trying to reject my 2020 M3P since April 2021. They have basically messed me around for the last 6 months agreeing to accept rejection of vehicle due to it being of unsatisfactory quality (see my previous thread for more information). But they want me to take out a new 48 month agreement and order a new M3P. They have agreed to give me a deposit contribution taking into account the M3P is £4k more expensive and they have also offered me £1500 cash compensation. I am mulling over what to do and then it dawned on me that perhaps i should just move to a different brand all together. I have been researching the Audi e-Tron and Taycan forums and the unanimous feeling is that they e-Tron and Taycan are far superior to the M3P albeit at much higher prices which are affordable to me. However upon doing my research i feel that i would really miss the following things about my Tesla if i were to move to a Taycan or E-Tron GT:

• One pedal driving
• Auto pilot
• Integrated dash cam and sentry mode
• Supercharger network
• Lack of regular servicing requirements
• Tesla app
• Understated looks
  

My understanding from all of the Taycan and E-Tron GT owners is that these cars are far better built and drive far better which i am sure we will all agree on however none of them can compete with Tesla with the above key areas that i would definitely miss.

Despite my exceptionally poor experience of Tesla with respect to my car's build quality i am finding myself in a position where i am not sure if a Taycan or E-Tron GT would provide a better overall package for me

I would appreciate any thoughts/insights that might help me make a decision on this

 

[Limey]

You'd also miss the ability to do above 220 miles without charging.

I've had a freemont 2019 and a China 2021, the latter is sooooo much better.

 

[kitenski]

Every EV I've driven had one pedal driving, inc audi, ford, jaguar and Skoda! They will all have an app as well from what I've seen to allow remote heating/cooling etc.

I wouldn't assume they won't be without issues, a mate has a Taycan on order and is telling me various reports about 12v and heater issues with some owners.

I believe the taycan needs bi-annual servicing, so that seems fine?

As an iPace driver I am considering moving to Tesla mostly down to the SC network and the ability to delivery regular updates over the air.

I'm not sure what etron you are looking at, I've driven the Q4 e-tron (nice car, very avg performance) and the e-tron which was a horrible noisy and heavy lump of a vehicle!

 

[muster39]

it sounds like you have lost at least some trust in Tesla. Deciding what to do in this situation is a personal decision and only you can work out whether to stay with Tesla or go in another direction.

To help with the decision, consider the following:
- Make sure you have the best advice about rejecting your car. What exactly are your legal rights and to what extent are Tesla meeting those?
- What offer could Tesla make which would make you happy? Propose this as a counter to what Tesla have offered you. They might say no, but if you don’t ask you don’t get.

 

[scdoubleu]

With the current state of the car market, you could accept the new M3P then sell it straight away for pretty much the same price as new. In effect, getting your money back.

 

[NISFAN]

Sorry to hear your woes. I haven’t read your other thread so don’t know what the issues are.

The deal offered is pretty generous to the point that I’d definitely take them up on that offer on the basis that you could sell a brand new M3P for more. So you aren’t losing out with ‘sticking with Tesla’. You’ll need a car while you wait for the others in your list. If the new 3 turns out to have addressed your original issues, you keep it and cancel the Taycan order.

I’m sure many of the items you list will be a case of getting used to a different way, but once adapted will no longer be of concern.

The main thing about a non Tesla switch would be outright efficiency and cost per mile. Maybe not so bad if you mainly do short trips, but would be a dealbreaker for me with my need to do 300miles in a day, regularly.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

• One pedal driving
• Auto pilot
• Integrated dash cam and sentry mode
• Supercharger network
• Lack of regular servicing requirements
• Tesla app
• Understated looks

You can't really ask a bunch of people on a Tesla forum and expect to get an impartial view, however

I now wish I didn't have 1 foot braking, or it was switchable, particularily on country roads where I want to be able to coast. You should perhaps look at the i4 as its said to have an adaptive regen that assesses the situation and does 1 foot braking when in traffic and cruise when not (I'm sure its more sophisticated than that) but its said to be very inuitive and the best of both worlds

Autopilot. Audi must have an equivalent. The i4 certainly does

Sentry I leave off as it drains the battery. Sentry, the i4 will have it as my wifes BMW does using the cameras, can't comment on the Audi, but "missing it", I think you'd only miss it if you ever needed it and I've not in all the time I've had it.

Supercharger network -depends how much you need to use it. It is a point to think about if your situation dictates.

Servicing - you're a fool if you think a car can go indefinately without servicing, Tesla do recommend a number of activities they just don't make it a condition of the warranty. There are a fair few Model S owners who faced large bills to have the brakes replaced as they'd seized through light use due to regen and no servicing (and not always at scary miles). Most cars just want a 2 year service and shake down and thats hardly a reason not to buy one.

Tesla app. They also all have apps. Nothing particularily special about the Tesla one unless I'm missing something

Looks are subjective.

What about what you might gain?

 

[seadog]

The Audi appears much better value as it comes well equipped as standard, the Porsche is hard to keep much under £100K once you start ticking a few options, which in my opinion you will need to do as the car looks quite poor in standard spec and if your going to be spending £85K+ you want to be totally happy with the car . Still significantly more than the Tesla at £60K, although the P is no longer good value compared to the LR, when I bought the P there was a £5K difference, now it's £10K I think it's quite hard to justify. I think there is no doubt either of the German cars will be better built with superior materials and will be nice places to spend your time but will cost significantly more to buy and more to run, it really depends on what your priorities are. For me in Scotland Tesla is the only brand that I feel confident that I can get all round the country easily with minimum delays as I can access any charger, in a few years time I think this will be different, but at the moment I would find it hard to not go Tesla for an EV although I do like the look of the EV6.

 

[pp61]

As many of you will know i have been locked into a battle with Tesla trying to reject my 2020 M3P since April 2021. They have basically messed me around for the last 6 months agreeing to accept rejection of vehicle due to it being of unsatisfactory quality (see my previous thread for more information). But they want me to take out a new 48 month agreement and order a new M3P. They have agreed to give me a deposit contribution taking into account the M3P is £4k more expensive and they have also offered me £1500 cash compensation. I am mulling over what to do and then it dawned on me that perhaps i should just move to a different brand all together. I have been researching the Audi e-Tron and Taycan forums and the unanimous feeling is that they e-Tron and Taycan are far superior to the M3P albeit at much higher prices which are affordable to me. However upon doing my research i feel that i would really miss the following things about my Tesla if i were to move to a Taycan or E-Tron GT:

• One pedal driving
• Auto pilot
• Integrated dash cam and sentry mode
• Supercharger network
• Lack of regular servicing requirements
• Tesla app
• Understated looks

My understanding from all of the Taycan and E-Tron GT owners is that these cars are far better built and drive far better which i am sure we will all agree on however none of them can compete with Tesla with the above key areas that i would definitely miss.

Despite my exceptionally poor experience of Tesla with respect to my car's build quality i am finding myself in a position where i am not sure if a Taycan or E-Tron GT would provide a better overall package for me

I would appreciate any thoughts/insights that might help me make a decision on this

I am moving from Tesla S and X to e-tron GT and had the GT for a whole day.

One pedal drive: It is correct that Audi is trying to keep the ICE experience and regeneration is mainly activated when touching the brake pedal. You can have it set to have some regeneration (speed reduction) but still nothing compared with Tesla. In relation to efficacy the Audi way seems to be better.
Autopilot: Always paid for it, never had more as adaptive cruise control and lane assist. Have this in the Audi too
Dash cam, sentry mode: correct only Tesla. Will install dashcam with cloud connection via Audi hotspot. Costs 500 Euro. (monthly internet Audi cheaper compared with Tesla)
Supercharger network: agree, but we also are not well informed about the other systems as Tesla drivers. Suggest to check A Better Routeplanner. Take the trip you do often or is long, set Audi etron GT as car and find out the charging possibilities. You will see a lot of fast chargers.
service requirements: relative low for Audi too
Tesla app: check out Audi app, not bad
Looks: Tesla 3 is very different looks compared with GT.

What is better with the Audi etron GT?
General build
Lights
Automatic wipers
Robust cruisecontrol
Less gadgets, more car.

Hope this helps.
Internet, hotspot possibility

I do think that the Audi e-tron 55 etc are not the cars to buy. Too heavy and too small battery

 

[Adopado]

I now wish I didn't have 1 foot braking, or it was switchable, particularily on country roads where I want to be able to coast. You should perhaps look at the i4 as its said to have an adaptive regen that assesses the situation and does 1 foot braking when in traffic and cruise when not (I'm sure its more sophisticated than that) but its said to be very inuitive and the best of both worlds

One pedal driving allows you to coast ... in fact you will have almost certainly been doing it already. Anytime the energy usage indicator is not showing red or green you are coasting. You already have adaptive regen ... it's controlled by the accelerator angle and we all do it without thinking (after the usual short period of adaptation). The only people who will experience an issue will be those who continue to fully lift off the accelerator pedal whenever they are not actively accelerating. It's already an intuitive way of driving.

 

[kael13]

You should probably take one out for a test drive before deciding.

 

[gangzoom]

the unanimous feeling is that they e-Tron and Taycan are far superior to the M3P albeit at much higher prices which are affordable to me.

I doubt any one actually disagree with that, I would say look at the EQC as well, the finish is top class (much more than our X), and its also quietly understated.

Given the £100K+ price point, I however would probably still buy another Model X despite all the issues I've had with our car (by far the most unreliable car I have ever owned). There is just something about it that's gotten under my skin, but if you take the emotion out of it there is now way I should even consider buying another Tesla of any kind. But been a human being its actually very hard to take the emotion bit away, we'll almost certainly get a 3/Y to run along side the X once the funds are available, despite knowing how poor the reliability and build quality is compared to other brands.

 

[Mark-R]

I had an Audi e-tron 50 as a courtesy car for a week whilst my M3LR was in the body shop. So, how did a similar priced German EV compare to my M3? Not very well...

The Audi is certainly more solidly built, and on the motorway, cabin noise was lower than in the Tesla. But I guess that adds a lot to the wight, so performance and efficiency seemed poor in comparison, and range was a lot lower. Even though I tried to set regen braking to the maximum on the Audi, it really only seemed to kick in when I touched the brake. If this is supposed to mimic an ICE car then it fails, as in my experience ICE cars slow down when you take your foot off the accelerator - the e-tron didn’t. The two centre screens crashed one morning, and only worked again after the car had been left parked at work for the day. There didn’t seem to be any way to switch off lane departure avoidance, making driving on the B road to work rather unpleasant as I seemed to be fighting with the car half the time. The auto-wipers were no better than on my M3 - some days they were good, other times I needed to resort to manual control.

So, whilst the grass might look greener, I was really pleased to get my M3 back!

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

One pedal driving allows you to coast ... in fact you will have almost certainly been doing it already. Anytime the energy usage indicator is not showing red or green you are coasting. You already have adaptive regen ... it's controlled by the accelerator angle and we all do it without thinking (after the usual short period of adaptation). The only people who will experience an issue will be those who continue to fully lift off the accelerator pedal whenever they are not actively accelerating. It's already an intuitive way of driving.

I have been driving Teslas for over 6 years so I do know what it can do. Why do I prefer not to have it? Just as one example if you've ever overtaken someone on a country road and then wanted to shed speed without the brake lights showing, you'll know what I'm talking about. A spirited drive and you see a car at a side road waiting, natural instinct is to cover the brake, you can't with 1 foot, want to reposition your foot on the motorway and you can't without slowing or sticking it on cruise. I drove our ICE at the weekend and even though I've done 95% of my driving in a Tesla I immediately recalled what I was missing.

We're all different and have preferences, my preference is no more right than yours, and 1 foot is not 'better', it's just different, but if I had a choice I'd switch to regen to the brake pedal rather than lift off the acccelerator. I will be very interested in test driving the BMW system.

 

[Jason71]

You can take this with a pinch of salt given that it comes from a Tesla Fan Boi site:

Porsche Whistleblower: “60% of all delivered Taycan have battery issues that caused replacements, damages and fires”

“Six out of ten Porsche Taycan” ever delivered have a problem with battery management that affects and damages battery cells, requires replacement of cells and batteries, and is causing vehicle fires, according to a source working at Porsche’s headquarters in Zuffenhausen, Germany. Porsche is...

www.teslarati.com

But if it is even partly true then
But hey Porsche is owned by VW right so I'm sure they would not lie or cover stuff up...........

 

[UkNorthampton]

According to NowYouKnow, Porsche skimped on the power electronics/charger (saving $70), whereas Audi didn't - worth checking Audi battery warranty/manual - quite onerous restrictions in the Porsche manual. Danger of fire, manual's conditions might limit battery warranty to 3 years, lead to chargeable investigations ($600 fee), lose capacity and increased likelihood of further cell failures as remainder are stressed more.

Audi charger from same supplier but better spec. Porsche one seems especially dodgy when charging at low power levels, presumably at home on 7kw AC. It isn't totally clear, but I suspect it will eventually become a scandal. Seems to overcharge some cells. I'm guessing this might pop the pouch cell open. If air (oxygen) enters the cell, it could cause a fire. These cells are soft pouches with no integral structure and no engineered gas escape. They fail unpredictably and contain a lot more energy that a Tesla cell leading to other cells failing & burning.

Tesla cells have an engineered weakness so gas escapes in a safer, more predictable way preventing cascades to other cells. Apart from one dodgy report from a Tesla short seller with his S Plaid (which he didn't let Tesla look at), I think it's been years since a Tesla had a problem. Bolts, ID3, Hyundai/Kias have more recent battery fires. Still safer than a BMW or Vauxhall ICE though.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1466341127846514690

(timestamped)

With Tesla, fundamental engineering usually great, cosmetics arguable. Other manufacturers - vice versa. Personally, I wouldn't buy any EV using high-energy POUCH cells (almost all others). Very bad design choice for automotive in my opinion.

In my opinion...low-energy Iron Phosphate cells of any form ok (usually prismatic, can be rolled like a bent cylinder or layered like pouch) are fine (Tesla Model 3 SR+). So are high-energy small cylinders that are well-engineered for vehicle use (all other Teslas + Lucid).

edit: picture from Porsche manual

If car stationary for 2+ weeks,
if plugged in to power - don't let it stand in the sun
if unplugged (additional to above?) - keep between 0 & 20 Celsius

Presumably Porsche can check vehicle logs & restrict warranty?

 

[debrooker]

Dropped my car off to the detailers today and was presented with a Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo Turbo S abolutely stunning and instant car envy

 

[Adopado]

I have been driving Teslas for over 6 years so I do know what it can do. Why do I prefer not to have it? Just as one example if you've ever overtaken someone on a country road and then wanted to shed speed without the brake lights showing, you'll know what I'm talking about. A spirited drive and you see a car at a side road waiting, natural instinct is to cover the brake, you can't with 1 foot, want to reposition your foot on the motorway and you can't without slowing or sticking it on cruise. I drove our ICE at the weekend and even though I've done 95% of my driving in a Tesla I immediately recalled what I was missing.

We're all different and have preferences, my preference is no more right than yours, and 1 foot is not 'better', it's just different, but if I had a choice I'd switch to regen to the brake pedal rather than lift off the acccelerator. I will be very interested in test driving the BMW system.

I was just responding to your previous post where you were saying that you wanted coasting and adaptive regen ... and I was pointing out that you already have those things. These other issues are extending the original conversation (Of course left foot braking remains an option as per Formula and Rally driving ... [anyone reading this, please don't practise that skill with other traffic around ! ])

 

[Durzel]

Would agree with what has been said about the fact that potentially you could take delivery of a MIC M3P and find that either a) it's a lot better than the car you've experienced and/or b) you could just sell it for close to what you paid, if not potentially more.

Either way I don't see how you would lose out by taking delivery of a new M3P, whereas if you got an e-Tron or Taycan you might always wonder "what if".

I would also say that for all the build quality, etc stuff it's worth remembering that they're both considerably more expensive, too. That doesn't mean a ~£60k M3P should be crap, but at the same time it's not a like-for-like comparison.

I would also say that, having found out that you're expected to "service" the Taycan every 2 years, at ~£1250 a go (from the quotes I've seen), that would put me off straight away. I'm sure the e-Tron is similar, with Audi expecting their usual pants-down servicing model to carry on even though the cars shouldn't need anything like that sort of money spent on them, like with their ICE cars.

 

[davidmc]

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...ery-issues-on-60-of-cars-175504.htmlBecareful woth those electric

Only heard about this on another news site.

Also they also mentioned something about the warranty on the batteries on Taycans. Something to do with "if you dont follow our rules on how to charge etc you only get 3 years warranty and not the 8"