Switch to a Porsche Taycan or Audi E-Tron GT?

[Paule]

From a financial point of view Tesla is the only way to go...with all the problems many of us encounter along our Tesla journey we've still managed to make Elon Musk maybe the first Trillionaire in the world, which means with all these problems we're still giving him our money!

I and many others have had problems with Tesla...may it be poor build quality (usually rectified), cancelled orders with a lot of messing around, some customer service that treat you like a piece of crap when you're spending between 50 and 100k on a car, they know we're stuck between a rock and a hard place...

And this is why....Resale value they've got you, battery technology and range they've got you, technology in general they've got you...as time goes on they know they will improve as far as build quality etc as with the China made models but for some of us, we'll have to suffer the crap that goes with that wait along the way!


I've got to the point where I honestly believe for the foreseeable future I cannot go with any other vehicle manufacturer in regards to electric vehicles...

To stop me from thinking the way you are I've decided to let things run off like water off a duck's back with Telsa...since I've taken this approach I feel much better about dealing with them...I just feel yes, I have to resolve any issues but I'm not going to let it get to me...

Hope this makes you rethink how to deal with Tesla as a whole... I'm sure if you did leave you would regret it

 

[UkNorthampton]

The most unreliable cars I have had have been Porsche and BMW…and my customer experience have been poor. I think the misconception here is that buying German means better build quality, just because the door closes with a heavier thud, or the aura around a ‘prestige car’ is better with Porsche etc, certainly doesn’t mean you are guaranteed a problem free car.

My feeling would be to get the new MP3 with potentially better build quality, and give the new one another chance, especially with the offer given.

The only other thing i would mention is I avoided Tesla for many years until I felt now was the right time. When I first sat in a model 3 in the showroom I was deeply unimpressed with the build quality and with colleagues who were going mad for the model s at the time it seemed clear from their experience Tesla wasnt quite at the stage where I would want to dive in and get one. Even in 2020.

Now that the model 3 is truly a high volume, and evolving car, my hope is that the majority of issues have been ironed out and the chances of a lemon are slim…

With the money you save by not buying a etron-GT or taycan (which to me would not solve my ongoing GT3 itch) you can buy a nice second hand Porsche with low miles and take it to the country on the weekends to recover that 3 pedal feeling . Or even better, avoid these companies and get a Gtr or RCF…

Build quality / door thunk vs design quality.

Long-time Porsche engineers can apply their knowledge to how the car drives, but not how it charges, design choices for batteries etc. That is done by non-Porsche or newly Porsche people and won't be understood, nor will the importance of solid design choices be understood or supported. People gloss over subjects they don't understand & rely on LG, Bosch etc as the experts.

 

[cucubits]

I think the misconception here is that buying German means better build quality

I don't think there's any misconception with this one. Germans are paying more attention to details, have better processes, better and stricter QA, it's just how it is.

Probably Japanese makers are close 2nd to this up in the top.

I've lived with a Tesla for a couple years and while it had its great moments, in the end it made me stop looking at any cars put together in the US at all. I'm fully aware this may not be fair to some automakers, but with so many clearly better options available I'm very happy with my "made in USA - stay away" policy.

 

[SirBaz]

I don't think there's any misconception with this one. Germans are paying more attention to details, have better processes, better and stricter QA, it's just how it is.

Probably Japanese makers are close 2nd to this up in the top.

I've lived with a Tesla for a couple years and while it had its great moments, in the end it made me stop looking at any cars put together in the US at all. I'm fully aware this may not be fair to some automakers, but with so many clearly better options available I'm very happy with my "made in USA - stay away" policy.

Japanese attention to detail (Lexus etc) from my experience has been leaps and bounds compared to German cars of late
The last reliable car I remember from a German build was a 1989 SL. Then I remember my family getting the most unreliable 1997 Mercedes ever with paint that washed off (any of you remember the water soluble paint in those glorious 1997 super reliable mercs!) and a engine that would have a new issue every month. Small things like wipers stop working. Then a BMW that had several engine replacements due to cylinder failures. 6 series that had faulty suspension, I drive issues and cracked alloy issue. Then VW that had DSG gearbox failure. And Porsche that had paint issues and failed clutch.
I have never had any issues with any Japanese car I have owned except an exhaust crack and a gearbox synchro issue.
Being told a BMW is not going to last as bits of the engine are made from plastic and not covered by warranty, or being told by Porsche that a macan is not going to last as it has a 4Wd issue that affects the drive shaft so you are sitting on an potential future failure has put me right off…

So actually. I disagree without being rude!

 

[MrT3]

I don't think there's any misconception with this one. Germans are paying more attention to details, have better processes, better and stricter QA, it's just how it is.

There is a huge misconception about this in the UK. People believing VAG/MB/BMW vehicles are reliable now based on historic reputation. For years they have been middle to bottom of reliability and satisfaction surveys with Japanese vehicles out on top.

 

[SirBaz]

Japanese attention to detail (Lexus etc) from my experience has been leaps and bounds compared to German cars of late
The last reliable car I remember from a German build was a 1989 SL. Then I remember my family getting the most unreliable 1997 Mercedes ever with paint that washed off (any of you remember the water soluble paint in those glorious 1997 super reliable mercs!) and a engine that would have a new issue every month. Small things like wipers stop working. Then a BMW that had several engine replacements due to cylinder failures. 6 series that had faulty suspension, I drive issues and cracked alloy issue. Then VW that had DSG gearbox failure. And Porsche that had paint issues and failed clutch.
I have never had any issues with any Japanese car I have owned except an exhaust crack and a gearbox synchro issue.
Being told a BMW is not going to last as bits of the engine are made from plastic and not covered by warranty, or being told by Porsche that a macan is not going to last as it has a 4Wd issue that affects the drive shaft so you are sitting on an potential future failure has put me right off…

So actually. I disagree without being rude!

Do you ever wonder why Toyota has the courage to offer a 10 year warranty? Can you imagine Porsche giving one? They want us to pay to inspect before we can buy their warranty and make sure we get ripped off by them every issue we have. It’s just not right to assume just because it’s German it must be amazing and so much better than anything else on the road. A Honda NSX from 1991 would be far more reliable than any modern German car which is built down to cost. And then the same engine gets put in all the cars and they just get rebranded from Skoda to Audi to Porsche with a ‘misconception’ you are getting a more premium product with better reliability. I am still hankering for that GT3 however..

 

[Paule]

There is a huge misconception about this in the UK. People believing VAG/MB/BMW vehicles are reliable now based on historic reputation. For years they have been middle to bottom of reliability and satisfaction surveys with Japanese vehicles out on top.

You're right there...had an Audi Q7 for just over 4yrs bought from new, took out 1yr extended warranty to make 4yrs...only done 9673miles when sold this year in immaculate condition as hardly drove it as liked driving the wife's Nissan Leaf more...brake solenoid/ABS went costing me a pretty penny (3500k) ouch!...seemed to me this was timeed perfectly to fail... read on a few Audi forums this is a common problem but needless to say Audi get away with it...it maybe just me but I hear/read a lot about panel gaps, trim problems etc but never Tesla's breaking down with major problems...I'm sure it does happen but not on the scale of legacy makers...in a weird sort of way I'm glad it happened to the Audi as it made me to get rid of it and buy the Tesla Model 3... wish it failed much earlier and within the warranty as would have gone over to Tesla much earlier

 

[15Peter20]

Incredible that Porsche are so often hailed as bastions of reliability and build quality, yet their 911 water cooled engines have been pretty terrible. Bore scoring (victim here), IMS bearing, rod bolts letting go, plus the myriad of things you absolutely need to check when buying second hand, young, low mileage cars.
Tesla are a young company that are rapidly getting towards world beating reliability and build quality.
Older Teslas age well, even if the build quality wasn’t amazing to start with. German stuff: not so much.

 

[FlatSix911]

Incredible that Porsche are so often hailed as bastions of reliability and build quality, yet their 911 water cooled engines have been pretty terrible. Bore scoring (victim here), IMS bearing, rod bolts letting go, plus the myriad of things you absolutely need to check when buying second hand, young, low mileage cars.
Tesla are a young company that are rapidly getting towards world beating reliability and build quality.
Older Teslas age well, even if the build quality wasn’t amazing to start with. German stuff: not so much.

I agree... German-built does not always equal quality in today's world.
As a long-term Porsche collector, I avoid most water-cooled engines and stick with air-cooled 911's and GT's with the bulletproof Mezger design.
I would also be very concerned about Porsche's first entry into the EV world based on the recent history regarding their battery charging issues.

The Mezger engine: Porsche legend created by a genius

There are very few engines that have become so indivisible from their creator that it’s hard to mention them without their names too.

www.motorsportmagazine.com

Porsche Whistleblower: “60% of all delivered Taycan have battery issues that caused replacements, damages and fires”

“Six out of ten Porsche Taycan” ever delivered have a problem with battery management that affects and damages battery cells, requires replacement of cells and batteries, and is causing vehicle fires, according to a source working at Porsche’s headquarters in Zuffenhausen, Germany. Porsche is...

www.teslarati.com

"The whistleblower also said that years ago, Tesla offered to help Porsche with its battery management system, but the German automaker declined the offer. Around three years ago, Porsche asked Tesla through Audi contacts if they could help then, but at the time, Tesla declined. My source said it was pure arrogance on Porsche’s part that led to today’s problems, as Tesla had been willing to help them."

 

[polyphonic54]

Between Audi and Porsche: one of those companies has good customer service.

Get the Porsche.

 

[gangzoom]

Do you ever wonder why Toyota has the courage to offer a 10 year warranty?

What's this obsession with reliability all of a sudden, has Tesla all of a sudden jumped off the bottom of the reliability ladder to the top .

If you want a boring, turly souless, white goods transportation get a Toyota or Lexus. We have one, its utterly reliable but its so dull and lifeless we choose to use our far less reliable Tesla every time.

Don't forget Toyotas stance on EVs, and Japan is currently building lots of new COAL power stations so they can make hydrogen cheaper.

Back to choosing between a Model 3 or Taycan......honestly what is there to think about?

 

[Sean.]

What's this obsession with reliability all of a sudden, has Tesla all of a sudden jumped off the bottom of the reliability ladder to the top .

If you want a boring, turly souless, white goods transportation get a Toyota or Lexus. We have one, its utterly reliable but its so dull and lifeless we choose to use our far less reliable Tesla every time.

Don't forget Toyotas stance on EVs, and Japan is currently building lots of new COAL power stations so they can make hydrogen cheaper.

Back to choosing between a Model 3 or Taycan......honestly what is there to think about?

Are you keeping your X longer term?

Ours just turned 4 and has done almost 63k now. I’m under no illusions with Tesla. Good and bad.

The boss and I took a Taycan Turbo for a test a few weeks ago and decided to push the button on it. Deposit down now the wait…

 

[Bouba]

Has anyone gone to a Taycan forum to see if anyone is thinking of getting a Tesla ?

 

[gangzoom]

Are you keeping your X longer term?

Yeaph, cannot afford a new one, and might even have to sell the current one and go back to a cheapo Leaf, if the house building project cost goes mad.....my wife is pushing for pattern ceramic tiles on the entire ground floor, which equates to lots of under floor heating too!!!

House renovations makes even a brand new Porsche look cheap .

Enjoy the Taycan not at all jealous....

 

[Sean.]

House renovations makes even a brand new Porsche look cheap .

Enjoy the Taycan not at all jealous....

I feel for you. We’re putting the finishing touches to our 1 year whole house renovation - 9 months of snagging. We kicked off 3 years ago. Nearly bankrupted us just after covid. No kidding.

Luckily things picked up and we’re back on an even keel. Good luck.

Edit - car park photo of our X in the background and a Taycan of same colour as our order, but we’ve deleted the chrome surrounds. I do my cars in red and blue order. Time for blue

 

[Leejmoff]

There is a huge misconception about this in the UK. People believing VAG/MB/BMW vehicles are reliable now based on historic reputation. For years they have been middle to bottom of reliability and satisfaction surveys with Japanese vehicles out on top.

Worst car for reliability that I had was a Mini (BMW). Just had constant problems with bits flying off down the motorway/electrical problems/steering problems, call backs for major problems. Then they tried to charge me extortionate amount of money too, until I said I'll give the car back.

Best car I had for reliability was Nissan funny enough, and Skoda I had no problems at all.

 

[DoricJim]

Has anyone gone to a Taycan forum to see if anyone is thinking of getting a Tesla ?

Wow, went and took a look on their forums and talk about (a significant number) having a superiority complex. I thought the Tesla fan boys were bad but sheesh, dare you even suggest that any other EV has better points than a Taycan, especially a Tesla

 

[Adopado]

Worst car for reliability that I had was a Mini (BMW).

Me too ... in the days before they split off the BMW and Mini business ... oh, how they looked down on us lesser mortals! Power steering, suspension parts, top end engine rebuild, grinding gearbox ... thousands£ Oh, and when new the car paint spec was different to that ordered ... so they offered me some car cleaning products and a set of mats ... thanks.

 

[Bouba]

In my thinking, I would no more buy an ev off Porsche than I would buy an ice from Tesla.

 

[pdk42]

Would agree with what has been said about the fact that potentially you could take delivery of a MIC M3P and find that either a) it's a lot better than the car you've experienced and/or b) you could just sell it for close to what you paid, if not potentially more.

Either way I don't see how you would lose out by taking delivery of a new M3P, whereas if you got an e-Tron or Taycan you might always wonder "what if".

I would also say that for all the build quality, etc stuff it's worth remembering that they're both considerably more expensive, too. That doesn't mean a ~£60k M3P should be crap, but at the same time it's not a like-for-like comparison.

I would also say that, having found out that you're expected to "service" the Taycan every 2 years, at ~£1250 a go (from the quotes I've seen), that would put me off straight away. I'm sure the e-Tron is similar, with Audi expecting their usual pants-down servicing model to carry on even though the cars shouldn't need anything like that sort of money spent on them, like with their ICE cars.

Isn’t the Performance still made in Freemont?