Switching from TM3 to Jaguar I-Pace

[MXWing]

A few relevant links for this thread in case you haven’t seen them yet:

Jaguar and Chevy have LG in common

“Secret” highway ultra-fast DC charging map revealed

Owners manual. Be sure to give your country as UK in order to see it.
Jaguar Owner Information

How can one build a secret network of chargers? Doesn't that require permitting..?

 

[Jeff N]

How can one build a secret network of chargers? Doesn't that require permitting..?

It’s a “secret” map of the charging network although I suppose you could also parse the headline to say its about a “secret” highway.

 

[mariopaol]

I'll be the first to admit I don't know how a non Tesla would fare in long distance travel in Europe.

I know for me, it's a non-go in the US. I'm not willing to go slower so I can make it from charger to charger. It is an issue to have to map out, find chargers, and find a way to pay for them. Lots of things can be "done" but why go through the hassle when Tesla makes it seamless?

Regarding the iPace experience, we will see once it's in the field. A lot of assumptions are going to be need to be made for the first owners. Car is going to be perfectly reliably, and every Jaguar service center is going to hit the ground running - all on Day 1.

On the first point: more market competition, more choice for the consumers.

About the second point, I agree with you. There is a non negligible level of uncertainty on reliability and assistance. We will see.

 

[MXWing]

On the first point: more market competition, more choice for the consumers.

About the second point, I agree with you. There is a non negligible level of uncertainty on reliability and assistance. We will see.

I would agree with point #1, except when you roll out disingenuous marketing creating confusion in the market.

The iPace bills itself as an SUV and a Model X competitor. Even publicized a video about it being "faster" and "cheaper."

A Model X killer, an iPace is not.

Starting and also ending the iPace "comparison".

 

[mariopaol]

I would agree with point #1, except when you roll out disingenuous marketing creating confusion in the market.

The iPace bills itself as an SUV and a Model X competitor. Even publicized a video about it being "faster" and "cheaper."

A Model X killer, an iPace is not.

Starting and also ending the iPace "comparison".

"killer"...wow that's a word that I personally dislike.
This is not a macho competition.
We are just comparing consumers' choices.

 

[arnis]

I'm not willing to go slower

Well, sometimes, that means you drive at 155mph. Which is just hard, mentally and physically,
and average distance travelled per hour drops in case of EV.
First, one needs to understand what is the most appropriate (or maybe fastest) speed.
Therefore lesson nr1: speed limit is not always the fastest way of travelling (nor is "normal slight speeding").

 

[MXWing]

"killer"...wow that's a word that I personally dislike.
This is not a macho competition.
We are just comparing consumers' choices.

I did not invent the nomenclature my friend.

 

[MXWing]

Well, sometimes, that means you drive at 155mph. Which is just hard, mentally and physically,
and average distance travelled per hour drops in case of EV.
First, one needs to understand what is the most appropriate (or maybe fastest) speed.
Therefore lesson nr1: speed limit is not always the fastest way of travelling (nor is "normal slight speeding").

Let's put it this way.

I'm not willing to go from 70MPH to 50MPH to make it to the next charging station.

I was told that in my Tesla MX60D going to Las Vegas.

I came back to California as a 75D. 70MPH back all the way.

I'm not going to put up with slower speeds AND a slower, and more uncertain charging network.

 

[svp6]

We need to see the Jag experience in real world. If it is as high quality interior as it appears in posted videos, they will be selling all available production - just like Tesla does at this time. More competition - more options.

 

[arnis]

Except that Tesla will sell everything even with much more random interior and exterior quality

 

[kbM3]

the Ipace looks awesome. a foot less in width and length than the S and X. so will be easier to drive and park. and interior looks good to me.

Model S and X look outdated. it doesn't make sense to me that the Model 3 has a faster screen and charges faster than the S or X.
Model 3 goes too far with the lack of buttons and the autopilot stalk.
Tesla's supercharger network is tough to beat though.

Don’t forget. The Tesla will improve every month.

iPace and Kona directly target Tesla people. These are not more compliance cars, these are the first serious competitors.
The Jag Drag race, Kona "you're move Elon" billboard are for Tesla people, hey look at this.
Future demand is still an unknown so folks who already own a Tesla, or sit on a waiting list are the current target. You are the known quantity. You are it.

VW's Mueller making remarks about reigning in Tesla.
In 3 years, 6 at the most (?)
This is significant, the world's largest mfr, who make 10 million (?) cars a year, talking Tesla?
Germans being generally tweaky about T performance?
This rookie space cowboy dreamer who they no doubt shared some laughs about has scooped the lead, owns the mind share and the forward thinking.

This could not happen. This was Not Possible. The experts, all proven wrong now, were right. You can't do that. Nobody ever did that.

There are still some aspects of denial. Evidenced in the the "we will bury you" thread from the VW fan yesterday.

The score is 10 million to 52 and he is nervous.
In their heads.

So in a significant, history changing way Elon has won.
He changed the thinking, changed the direction. One man did that.
A remarkable achievement.

Now he is far from done, but it seems like this moment merits being designated the end of the beginning. A new course is set.

We don’t know production numbers for Kona or I-Pace, which will be an important factor in determining whether they are compliance models or not.

Except that Tesla will sell everything even with much more random interior and exterior quality

Customer satisfaction subsumes quality.

Surely you wouldn’t suggest a brand with much lower customer satisfaction?

 

[N5329K]

Don’t forget. The Tesla will improve every month.



We don’t know production numbers for Kona or I-Pace, which will be an important factor in determining whether they are compliance models or not.



Customer satisfaction subsumes quality.

Surely you wouldn’t suggest a brand with much lower customer satisfaction?

You can sell almost anything to a buyer who believes in your mission. Early adopters will put up with a lot. And they will still register as loyal, satisfied customers, even in the face of flaws that would have a Honda VP apologizing and bowing from a lectern.
But that only starts the transition to more sustainable transport. It doesn't accelerate it until you can build for the far-larger number of non-early adopters. Tesla was trying to do that with Model 3, but their retreat to high-spec versions of Model 3 is a step back. I hope they find a way to go forward again, and soon.
Robin

 

[kengchang]

220 miles only with 90 KWh?!

 

[mariopaol]

220 miles only with 90 KWh?! View attachment 287623

Look at the Jaguar I-Pace home page: Jaguar I-PACE | Our First All-Electric Car | Jaguar

One full charge provides a range of 480km (298miles) on the WLTP cycle*.

*WLTP (Worldwide harmonised Light vehicle Test Procedure) is the new process that has been phased in from 2017, which measures fuel, energy consumption, range and emissions in passenger vehicles in Europe. This is designed to provide figures closer to real-world driving behaviour. It tests vehicles with optional equipment and with a more demanding test procedure and driving profile

Of course, real-world range has to be verified as for any EV.

 

[kengchang]

Look at the Jaguar I-Pace home page: Jaguar I-PACE | Our First All-Electric Car | Jaguar

One full charge provides a range of 480km (298miles) on the WLTP cycle*.

*WLTP (Worldwide harmonised Light vehicle Test Procedure) is the new process that has been phased in from 2017, which measures fuel, energy consumption, range and emissions in passenger vehicles in Europe. This is designed to provide figures closer to real-world driving behaviour. It tests vehicles with optional equipment and with a more demanding test procedure and driving profile

Of course, real-world range has to be verified as for any EV.

That 220 should be the EPA range(?) since I am in the US.

 

[mariopaol]

That 220 should be the EPA range(?) since I am in the US.

The WLTP is replacing the NEDC. From what I read, the WLTP should provide results very similar to the EPA (From NEDC to WLTP: what will change? | WLTPfacts.eu)

 

[daktari]

Thanks to user Finnøy at elbilforum.no, we have this great table of consumtpion figures. As you can see, WLTP is a bit more optimistic than the pretty realistic EPA, but not so far off as NEDC. Biggest weakness is probably cold weather/sub freezing measurements. Opel Ampera= Chevy Bolt.

 

[kengchang]

Someone from Jag entered those text to advertise on Facebook, Facebook doesn't do free advertisement...just saying

On their FB page too

 

[JohnSnowNW]

The WLTP is replacing the NEDC. From what I read, the WLTP should provide results very similar to the EPA (From NEDC to WLTP: what will change? | WLTPfacts.eu)

The figures under WLTP are certainly more in line with EPA, but still predict more range:

2018 Nissan LEAF Gets Range Ratings On WLTP Cycle

Fairly certain Jaguar has good reason for quoting considerably lower than WLTP for the US market.

 

[kbM3]

You can sell almost anything to a buyer who believes in your mission. Early adopters will put up with a lot. And they will still register as loyal, satisfied customers, even in the face of flaws that would have a Honda VP apologizing and bowing from a lectern.
But that only starts the transition to more sustainable transport. It doesn't accelerate it until you can build for the far-larger number of non-early adopters. Tesla was trying to do that with Model 3, but their retreat to high-spec versions of Model 3 is a step back. I hope they find a way to go forward again, and soon.
Robin

Interesting theory. Please provide any data that backs it up.

Look at the Jaguar I-Pace home page: Jaguar I-PACE | Our First All-Electric Car | Jaguar

One full charge provides a range of 480km (298miles) on the WLTP cycle*.

*WLTP (Worldwide harmonised Light vehicle Test Procedure) is the new process that has been phased in from 2017, which measures fuel, energy consumption, range and emissions in passenger vehicles in Europe. This is designed to provide figures closer to real-world driving behaviour. It tests vehicles with optional equipment and with a more demanding test procedure and driving profile

Of course, real-world range has to be verified as for any EV.

Jaguar’s own figures from their U.S. website is 240 EPA.