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Switching from TM3 to Jaguar I-Pace
- Thread starter mariopaol
- Start date
Median price of a Model 3 configured right now is still much cheaper than a Model S or X, so I'd say they haven't stepped back. They've just slowed down. Business reality. Mission remains the same.
While I tend to agree that being aligned with the company mission will help you tolerate faults more, I think there's another persona out there who is so enamored with the driving experience that they're willing to overlook some problems as well. Of course non of this is sustainable in the long term. Tesla does need to get their sh*t together.
I think what you are seeing the EPA is from here 2019 Jaguar I-PACE Electric - Pricing & Specs | Jaguar USA
Yet the disclaimer says EPA estimate not available.
2019 Jaguar I-PACE - Our First All-Electric Car | Jaguar USA
Disclaimers | Jaguar USA
2. All figures are EPA estimates. Actual mileage may vary.
10. Figures shown are Manufacturer's driving range estimates. Actual mileage may vary. EPA estimates not available at time of publication. See your local authorized Jaguar Retailer for updated EPA estimates.
I'd guess the 90kWh i-Pace when charged fully, will be 270+ miles EPA highway. Not just by math, but by marketing.
Both the Model X 75D and Bolt are 238 miles EPA. 240 miles sounds like a minimum. Less range would be a marketing problem. But the 259mi MS75D could be it's competitor, hence a EPA filing of more than 260 mi.
Both the Model X 75D and Bolt are 238 miles EPA. 240 miles sounds like a minimum. Less range would be a marketing problem. But the 259mi MS75D could be it's competitor, hence a EPA filing of more than 260 mi.
N5329K
Active Member
Interesting theory. Please provide any data that backs it up.
Which one? That early adopters put up with more? That Tesla has sparked the transition to sustainable transport? That to move the needle further they need a product for a larger market? Or that Model 3 was supposed to be that product, but financial reality got in the way?
Median price of a Model 3 configured right now is still much cheaper than a Model S or X, so I'd say they haven't stepped back.
Model 3 absolutely costs less than an S or X. From the "a more affordable Tesla" standpoint, they're doing just what they said they were going to do. Model 3 is more affordable than the S and X.
Unfortunately, they felt also they had to "step back" from the base Model 3, and push it into next year. Or so. Even for line waiters. Some number (I would suggest quite a few) were planning on that base variant. With a tax credit. This year. And they were encouraged to think this way by Tesla. Now that's not likely to happen, so I would say from the "entry level luxury car" segment, they have indeed stepped back.
I hope temporarily.
Robin
Which one? That early adopters put up with more? That Tesla has sparked the transition to sustainable transport? That to move the needle further they need a product for a larger market? Or that Model 3 was supposed to be that product, but financial reality got in the way?
Median price of a Model 3 configured right now is still much cheaper than a Model S or X, so I'd say they haven't stepped back.
Model 3 absolutely costs less than an S or X. From the "a more affordable Tesla" standpoint, they're doing just what they said they were going to do. Model 3 is more affordable than the S and X.
Unfortunately, they felt also they had to "step back" from the base Model 3, and push it into next year. Or so. Even for line waiters. Some number (I would suggest quite a few) were planning on that base variant. With a tax credit. This year. And they were encouraged to think this way by Tesla. Now that's not likely to happen, so I would say from the "entry level luxury car" segment, they have indeed stepped back.
I hope temporarily.
Robin
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Hey now, back up - Elon never guaranteed that early morning day 1 reservation holders would qualify for the full federal tax credit that would push a base Model 3 into decently optioned Civic territory, and the folks like me who may have lined up outside of Tesla stores to reserve are morons to have ever dreamed up such a preposterous scenario. Nope, I should've totally known and accepted that I was lining up that cold 3/31/2016 Seattle morning to reserve a $49k+ car. After all, it's not like the Model 3 was ever super hyped by Elon and Tesla as a $35k Tesla. Psh.
I expect the official EPA rating will be published in late July.
Jag's website says it'll be published before the first customer deliveries, which they say will start in August.*
The Jag's official WLTP range is 298 miles. The Chevrolet Bolt is one of the few cars with both official WLTP and official EPA ratings, and they are within 1% of each other. So I expect that the official EPA range will be slightly higher than the "240 miles of realistic range when driven like a Jag"
* It seems credible - deliveries to showrooms started in April, and were complete in the UK in mid-May, They were in showrooms in Norway and France in May too. A UK showrooms at the tail of the roll-out is saying they''ll offer test drives this month (June). The deliveries seem to be in four phases - one for show, one for test-drives, one for sale, then additional sales models..
I did what the OP did. Sort of. I didn't cancel my now 26 month old reservation, but I did order a Jaguar i-Pace EV400 First Edition in Photon Red today. The FE is pretty well loaded and there are only 2 add-on options. 22" wheels or a non-FE color. Only 2019 FE's will be Red.
The OP will get his car first, since they are made in Austria. The i-Paces will take a long trip to California. Manufactured in July means delivery in September according to the paperwork. Once I placed the order and deposit, I can get the whole amount back for any reason.
The OP will get his car first, since they are made in Austria. The i-Paces will take a long trip to California. Manufactured in July means delivery in September according to the paperwork. Once I placed the order and deposit, I can get the whole amount back for any reason.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
My 90D incurs a ~40% range penalty for shorter urban trips. While I will still get all of max range while driving point to point on a flat highway at reasonable speed in good weather without a headwind, max range being 284 miles down from an original 294 miles a year ago, I don't get but 150 miles per full charge in town.
I think of the Dolt, the upcoming longer-range Leaf, and this i-Pace offering as great contenders for 2nd place. Or for 1st place in the not-long-distance market. Because from a practical standpoint, EPA range is a pipe dream not experienced during a week's worth of practical driving. On the highway, sure. Not in town, as antithetical as that may first appear.
For Europe in particular, it's great that infrastructure buildouts continue. However, as anyone who's used a ChaDeMo can tell you, you may get down the road, but hours matter and on its best day, a ChaDeMo still takes 2.5x longer to charge yer chariot.
All of that said, I'm glad Ford is finally joining the party in a meaningful way. Their C-Max is a strong offering, and short of infrastructure limitations, the i-Pace should more than hold its own against the coming deluge of competition.
Faster chargers will continue to be a market differentiator (and competitive advantage for Tesla). Whoever rolls out the next best network will have a firm grasp upon 2nd place. Which joint venture or conglomerate will it be, I wonder.
Meanwhile, back in California, tens of thousands of EV chargers are due from the major utilities, Dieselgate money, and of course Tesla's continued rollout. If they ever do get to 5,000 SC sites globally, 2,000 of which ostensibly will be in North America... one wonders what percentage will end up in CA. 40% to match EV proportional ownership is probably overkill (800 SC sites statewide)... Then again... maybe not. As for the other 3,000 SC sites, it's easy to envision 40% Europe, 40% China, and 20% elsewhere.
Gonna be a land grab/race for the best and remaining SC site locations. Paired Chademo or CCS and L2s can go into many gas station properties - so whoever inks those deals with Chevron, BP and so forth will be sitting pretty for awhile. There's already a pair at a Chevron in Oregon (AeroVironment network) - talk about signs of things to come.
I think of the Dolt, the upcoming longer-range Leaf, and this i-Pace offering as great contenders for 2nd place. Or for 1st place in the not-long-distance market. Because from a practical standpoint, EPA range is a pipe dream not experienced during a week's worth of practical driving. On the highway, sure. Not in town, as antithetical as that may first appear.
For Europe in particular, it's great that infrastructure buildouts continue. However, as anyone who's used a ChaDeMo can tell you, you may get down the road, but hours matter and on its best day, a ChaDeMo still takes 2.5x longer to charge yer chariot.
All of that said, I'm glad Ford is finally joining the party in a meaningful way. Their C-Max is a strong offering, and short of infrastructure limitations, the i-Pace should more than hold its own against the coming deluge of competition.
Faster chargers will continue to be a market differentiator (and competitive advantage for Tesla). Whoever rolls out the next best network will have a firm grasp upon 2nd place. Which joint venture or conglomerate will it be, I wonder.
Meanwhile, back in California, tens of thousands of EV chargers are due from the major utilities, Dieselgate money, and of course Tesla's continued rollout. If they ever do get to 5,000 SC sites globally, 2,000 of which ostensibly will be in North America... one wonders what percentage will end up in CA. 40% to match EV proportional ownership is probably overkill (800 SC sites statewide)... Then again... maybe not. As for the other 3,000 SC sites, it's easy to envision 40% Europe, 40% China, and 20% elsewhere.
Gonna be a land grab/race for the best and remaining SC site locations. Paired Chademo or CCS and L2s can go into many gas station properties - so whoever inks those deals with Chevron, BP and so forth will be sitting pretty for awhile. There's already a pair at a Chevron in Oregon (AeroVironment network) - talk about signs of things to come.
Henchman
Member
Nope.
Someone else can be the Guinea pig for Jaguar
Also, as a Leaf owner as well, for long trips chademo doesn't compare to supercharging.
Tesla has battery technology figured out
I also think the I Pace is not sexy looking at all.
And the interior dashboard looks old fashioned.
And not on a good way.
I absolutely love the look and lack of knobs and instrument clusters of the Model 3.
Someone else can be the Guinea pig for Jaguar
Also, as a Leaf owner as well, for long trips chademo doesn't compare to supercharging.
Tesla has battery technology figured out
I also think the I Pace is not sexy looking at all.
And the interior dashboard looks old fashioned.
And not on a good way.
I absolutely love the look and lack of knobs and instrument clusters of the Model 3.
Akikiki
A'-Lo-HA ! y'all
I think if you asked Elon, he would tell you the I-Pace is not competition - its a sister. The competition is ICE.
As someone who owns a 3 I really think you guys should think twice before ordering this jaguar suv.
The range of that thing is in $35k model 3 territory (its even worse with the lack of supercharging network).. its stunning that they can only achieve 240 miles for a mini suv and a gigantic 90 kWh battery.. just that alone screams that something is messed up.
The range of that thing is in $35k model 3 territory (its even worse with the lack of supercharging network).. its stunning that they can only achieve 240 miles for a mini suv and a gigantic 90 kWh battery.. just that alone screams that something is messed up.
CCS rolled out to 1,000 more US locations over the past 12 to 18 months. (up from 115 locations in 2016)
350kW CCS went live in the US a couple of months ago,. EA are rolling a mix of 150kW and 350kW CCS out to 484 US locations over the next 18 months. (2,600 chargers at 3 to 10 chargers per location). The 150kW chargers will also provide a 50kW Chademo lead which Teslas can use.
In the EU, a bit over 4,000 CCS chargers were rolled out over the past year, with the first 350kW CCS chargers going live last November, limited to 175kW (with switch-up to 350kW happening about now). Shell are one of several of Europe’s largest forecourt operators who've signed up to host 150kW and 350kW chargers with the Ionity network.
One key issue with Supercharger is that Model 3 roll-out increases much faster than Supercharger expansions.
At the end of 2017, Tesla had sold about 138k cars in the US,
2018 is likely an additional 48k Model S and X.
Tesla had planned 260k Model 3s in 2018 (and look on track to sell at least 150k).
What effect is this going to have on Supercharger occupancy? And once occupancy goes above 50%, what effect will it have on Supercharger kW? (Superchargers are 135/145kW per pair of stalls)
They haven't claimed that. They are claiming 0-60mph in 4secs.
What they said is that they could make a potential SVR version hit 60 in 1.8secs. (And their 200hp, single-motor I-Type already hits 60 in 2.3secs atm).
To hit 1.8secs with an i-Pace SVR, they'd likely have to do 3, maybe 4 things: use a higher-discharge-rate battery chemistry, at the expense of range; use carbon-fibre body panels; change the final drive ratio; perhaps add a third or even a fourth motor.
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