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switching out 60 kWh battery for 85 kWh battery - allowed?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by vetboy45, Jul 27, 2013.

  1. vetboy45

    vetboy45 Member

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    I've got about 2700 miles on my 60kWh battery and have the urge to upgrade to the 85kWh battery. Is that something that can be done? What I mean is, does Tesla allow that? I'd obviously have to pay the difference between the 2 batteries once my useage has been taken into account but I can't seem to find an answer. Anyone know?
     
  2. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    Tesla's website says no. Elon said yes at the media q&a after the recent battery swap announcement. So who knows.
     
  3. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Link?
     
  4. Raffy.Roma

    Raffy.Roma Active Member

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    My opinion is trade-in the 60 kWh Model S for the 85 kWh Model S.
     
  5. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Thanks.

    Whenever I see "forum" in the URL for teslamotors.com links I generally ignore them. They should probably consider that with their bulletin board URLs. ;)

    - - - Updated - - -

    I tend to agree. It also opens up the door to new options available at the time the 85 was produced.
     
  6. strider

    strider Active Member

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    +1. Elon mentioned that as part of the battery swap you could "pay the difference" between your battery and the new one. But no details yet.
     
  7. FredTMC

    FredTMC Model S VIN #4925

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    I'm looking forward to swapping by 60 for an 85 battery for a long road trip. I'd rather put 1000+ miles on a rental battery. I assume TM will let me rent an 85 battery. I couldn't imagine they'd rent 60s.
     
  8. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

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    There is a new link on Teslas website that says it's possible to switch out battery sizes.. Yes, conflicting info. I'll find the link when I get home... Or someone can beat me to it.
     
  9. Gear

    Gear Member

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    The woman who came with me for my first test drive said it'd be possible to swap for the 85 for road trips with the new battery swapping program. The guy from Tesla HQ that I talked to, however, said he was surprised she told me that as the details hadn't been ironed out yet. I kind of have a feeling it will hold true, however, and that we 60's will be able to temporarily trade up with the new swapping program based on what Elon has said.
     
  10. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    I expect the following to be true:
    1. The packs delivered with non-perf and perf 85 kWh vehicles are "of the same class" and interchangeable between the two vehicle types without driver experience differences (performance or otherwise).
    2. A 60 kWh Model S can use a 85 kWh pack. The car will power up, and perform at least as well as it did with the original 60 kWh pack. (Assuming the packs have similar age, degradation, etc.)
    3. Tesla will not provide 60 kWh packs at swapping stations.
    4. Tesla will allow 60 kWh vehicle owners to use the swapping stations to "rent" an 85 kWh pack. Borrow, cheap.
    5. Tesla will allow 60 kWh vehicle owners to use the swapping stations to "upgrade" to an 85 kWh pack. Buy, expensive.
    6. When upgrading a 60 kWh vehicle to an 85 kWh pack, the performance will likely not be quite as improved as trading up to a new 85 kWh vehicle.
    7. When upgrading a 60 kWh vehicle to an 85 kWh pack, the cost will be more than the price difference of factory new 60 kWh and 85 kWh vehicles. (Assuming the packs have similar age, degradation, etc.)

    I don't speak for Tesla. These are just my expectations based on what they've said and what the market will expect of them.
     
  11. Raffy.Roma

    Raffy.Roma Active Member

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    This would be good expecially when Tesla will produce a 100KWh battery and it will be possible to swap the 85KWh battery for the 100KWh battery. :cool:
     
  12. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

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    From Tesla's own "Facts" webpage: "
    • While technically possible to upgrade to a larger battery, we recommend configuring your Model S with the battery that meets both your present and future need
    http://www.teslamotors.com/models/facts
     
  13. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    You tricked me with "new". That's been there a while, IIRC. :)
     
  14. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

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    sorry... it was "new" for the ignorant (me)
     
  15. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    I need a bigger smilie apparently.
    No worries. Many of us are just ... overly eager ... to find any new official Tesla commentary on hot topics.
     
  16. Gear

    Gear Member

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    That's essentially what I expect as well. Though the woman also mentioned that swapping to the 85kWh from the 60kWh pack will give you the improved performance as well as the performance difference has to do with battery circuitry rather than any difference in the car itself. Obviously, you can't get the performance of a P85 from a simple battery swap. I believe she said the P85 has an upgraded inverter that gives it the added performance over a regular 85.

    The battery upgrade (buy) option at a battery swapping station would be interesting as well. I wonder how they'd prove the new battery is equally as good as the one you're trading in if it's not brand new.
     
  17. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Oh, I don't think they'd prove that. Elaborating...

    Let's throw out the "assume the packs have similar age, degradation, etc." part.

    You show up with a 60 kWh vehicle and "rent" an 85 kWh battery. After driving with the new battery for at least 20 miles you decide you like it. You give Tesla a call (or do some online transaction with the 17") and they give you a price based on "some evaluation" of your original 60 and the rented 85. I don't think they want or need to make any statements comparing* your original 60 pack to the rented 85 pack. They just need (1) a measuring device (or pack telemetry) that allows them to establish the capacity and quality of a battery pack and (2) a formula that translates that into a dollar figure. Then they just calculate (dollar_value(the_rented_85) - dollar_value(the_old_60)) * (1 + markup) where markup might be 10%. Ideally they'd provide you the number (which might be something like the roadster CAC value) for each pack when they quote you a $ price for keeping the pack.

    Seems conceptually simple to me. And if they already have the formula and telemetry lined up, then it might actually be simple.


    * A key point (IMO) here is that at no point do they want or need to directly compare a 60 pack vs. an 85 pack. They merely need to establish a measurement mechanism and a value calculation for each pack type. More specifically, they might have radically different dollar-value formulas for the two pack types. For example, some would argue that a 40% degraded 85 (51 kWh) is worth more than a 15% degraded 60 (51 kWh) because the subsequent degradation rate on the 60 will likely be much sharper than for the 85.
     
  18. Hengist

    Hengist Member

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    Do that you pay tax and license again, give back the state rebate (if California) and lose your prepaid maintenance (if any) and extended warrantee(if any), and get hit with depreciation too. Could easily add up to over $20,000 for a $10,000 retail difference.
     
  19. fiksegts

    fiksegts Active Member

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    pay tax on the difference if you trade it in... prepaid maintenance, who does that when Tesla says no maintenance required??


     

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