TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

TACC bug in 2.4.236: confusing shadow for objects

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by MarcG, May 30, 2015.

  1. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,663
    Location:
    San Francisco
    I've had the following happen twice so far since upgrading to 2.4.236 from 2.4.188:

    Cruising along the highway in bright, sunny conditions at around 60 mph with TACC enabled and no cars in my lane (in front of me) for at least a mile, TACC suddenly starts braking hard upon approaching a dark shadow on the ground that covered at least the width of my lane and 25-30 feet long.

    In one instance, I was about to go under a bridge that was casting its shadow onto the entire width of the highway.
    In another instance, I was traveling south in the mid-afternoon and about to pass a slow-moving truck, in the lane to the right of mine, that cast its shadow onto my lane.

    So it seems as though TACC is mistaking those shadows for objects and is trying to avoid colliding with them by braking hard. I tried to submit this as a bug report but it kept refusing to record it, stating something about having difficulty understanding.

    Has anyone else experienced this?
     
  2. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages:
    5,387
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    #2 Andyw2100, May 30, 2015
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
    I haven't experienced this but also have not driven much yet under .236.

    As for the in-car bug reporting, I've read that your recording is very much time limited--perhaps to ten to fifteen seconds or something. Perhaps that was the issue. I expect you've done this by now, but if not, I'd certainly urge you to write something up and send it in to [email protected].

    Oh, and personally, I wouldn't consider this a "bug." This seems like a bigger problem to me than that.
     
  3. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,177
    Location:
    Snohomish, WA
    I'm not sure what to make of it.

    The manual has the boilerplate "Traffic-Aware Cruise Control may react to vehicles or objects that either do not exist or are not in the lane of travel, causing the Model S to slow down unnecessarily or inappropriately"

    But, of course they have that. They've covered themselves from just about everything with the user manual.

    It happened to the OP enough in what I presume would be the same situations he encountered with the previous version so it seems like they added something. Like having the Camera play a stronger role.

    Did you get a forward warring collision warning?
     
  4. tezzla

    tezzla Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2013
    Messages:
    544
    Location:
    SoCal
    The "braking for shadows" has happened in my car periodically for months. Many times on the fwy overpasses.
     
  5. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,663
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Thanks for the info, I will try your suggestions.


    Yep, I drive under the same bridge and in sunny weather at least twice a week. The truck shadow one is definitely new for me.

    No forward collision warning, as it probably thought it had enough time to slow down before reaching it. By that time I had obviously overridden TACC by pressing on the accelerator..

    Although, now that I think about it, I wonder if forward collision is only detected by the radar?
     
  6. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,177
    Location:
    Snohomish, WA
    According to the manual the forward collision warning uses the forward looking camera, and the radar.

    What I find a bit scary is the Automatic Emergency braking also uses the Camera plus Radar combination as well. It does make sense because I'm not sure the radar by itself can detect a bicycle. I sure hope this system doesn't get tricked out by a shadow. Sure it only cuts speed by 25mph, but that can easily cause someone to rear end you.
     
  7. jgs

    jgs Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    934
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    Yesterday I had forward collision warning trigger and the car started braking for no apparent reason at all. Not shadows, the day was overcast. No obstacles, no curves. I reported it using the in-car "feedback" thing. 236.
     
  8. caps04

    caps04 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2014
    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    NJ USA
    So it must be shadows that caused my car to TACC lock and auto-brake: Firmware 6.2 - Page 112 Never thought about that aspect. I thought TACC was all Radar and no Camera.
     
  9. NielsHP

    NielsHP Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    FWIW:
    Some days ago, driving with TACC on, 35 km/h (22 mph) on a quiet road with speed bumps, the car braked immediately after a speed bump, showing the blue car-in-front-being-tracked signal (although there was none).
    Repeated 3 times. Fair weather, totally alone on the road.
    Firmware 2.4.187 (or .188?).

    Tried it the day after, could not be repeated (dont remember weather).

    Installed 2.4.238 yesterday, will attempt repeat ASAP.
     
  10. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    4,710
    Location:
    Hickory, NC, USA
    1500 miles of driving over the past week, most using TACC.... no unexpected behavior on .236...
     
  11. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,663
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Wow Jason, you must have me beat on miles driven in a P85D since delivery... I'm almost at 12,500 (time for the annual service!) what about you?
     
  12. MDK

    MDK Aussie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    343
    Location:
    Western Down Under
    #12 MDK, Jun 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
    The same thing happened to me yesterday on 2.4.238 - the car suddenly braked hard, either for a shadow or for a vehicle parked on someone's lawn on the other side of the road.
    I caught it on dash cam so have sent some footage to Tesla for them to have a look.
    They acknowledged my email and my car suddenly started uploading at a rapid rate on my WiFi, so they've taken it seriously enough to take a closer look at my logs.
    Hopefully it helps them find out what they need to fine-tune.

    tesla-shadow-tacc.png

    edited to add screengrab. What a glorious Winter's day
     
  13. NielsHP

    NielsHP Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Me too:
    firmware 2.4.238 on a 15 days old 85D

    Yesterday on a quiet, straight country road with trees along the sides.
    Sun casts sharp shodows of trees on the road.
    Driving 35-40-ish mph with TACC, no one else on the road, no parked cars or houses.
    Car brakes all of a sudden. Not shure I saw/heard a collision warning; TACC shows blue car-in-front sign.

    and:

    Today, driving 30-ish on road with some trees, sun not sharp, but some shadows.
    Minute bumps in road.
    Alone on road, dont remember whether TACC was on.
    Car suddenly raises a collision warning (sign, beep) and brakes.
     
  14. woof

    woof Model S #P683 Blue 85 kWh

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,148
    Braking and/or just turning off due to overpasses and overhead signs is par for the course with the BMW i3 camera based ACC system. Many reports in the i3 forums. I'm pretty sure the BMW camera system is MobleEye too.
     
  15. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    2,744
    Location:
    Santa Cruz Mountains, USA
    I have never had that happen when no cars are on the road. But I did have an incident that I reported to Tesla, where I was in slow and go and the BMW 3 Coupe started to slowly accelerate and my TACC hit the brakes very hard. Now after reading this, I think I was going under a bridge, a fairly small one at that.
     
  16. scottm

    scottm Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,262
    Location:
    Canada

    I thought TACC is for highway use.

    Cruise control on that street... ?

    And the reasonableness test: to my eyes there is something wrong with that vehicle placement in view, so ya, I'd brake too.
     

Share This Page