TACC failed to brake at stop, nearly accident.

[basf_audio]

I just happened to come into two scenarios today that happened in a similar fashion to the OP. Surface streets following a car with TACC and that car specifically made a right yielding turn which placed me right behind a stationary car at the red light. As soon as the original tracked car yielded out, my tracking turned from blue to gray. Then back to blue as it tracked to the stopped car in front of me - and slowed me to a stop.

While I know there are some posts here about the system not tracking stopped cars - in both of my examples, the second car that I tracked onto was indeed stopped. I use distance of 1 - and it behaved as I expected. This was from 50 mph to a full stop without any collision warnings or sudden stops.

I specifically use TACC on side streets for keeping a decent safe speed but I also like managing distance with start and stop traffic. I'm aware of what's going on and prepared to take over when needed. I trust the system... Way more than those distracted drivers around me... And on the highway it's been flawless...

 

[bhzmark]

That's the key. When it is blue it knows it is coming up on a car and will slow. When gray it doesn't.

 

[morbot]

Glad that the accident was avoided and there was no serious problem... but you shouldn't trust TACC to work flawlessly on side-streets. It's designed for highway/freeway cruising.

If you're going to use it on arterial streets... you should be fully at the ready for it to misread a situation.

 

[gordo]

I've experienced very similar incidents on the highway approaching traffic that's slowed down significantly. TACC simply isn't ready for prime time. Hopefully this is all resolvable in software, but it remains to be seen.

 

[bhzmark]

Other car makers have implemented radar cruise in the exact same way --thus it hasbeen primetimefor many years. Tesla ' implementation is the same or perhaps better if it is picking up even some stationary cars as cars. I would prefer that it always pick up stationary cars, but since I drove a Toyota with this type of radar cruise for years, I wouldn't have bought the tesla until they had at least this basic radar cruise. Those who find it confusing shouldn't use it.

 

[Khatsalano]

How many of the haters have read their own iPhone or Galaxy manual? Did you reread it after the latest iOS or Android update?

 

[bhzmark]

I didn't read the tesla or toyota manual either to figure out radar cruise treats stationary cars. I just paid attention to how it works.

 

[Sigma4Life]

congratulations, you are all beta testers for an unreliable system that wasn't ready for production yet.

I'm quite sure you wish your P85 had the same capability. I guess comments like that help you sleep better at night.

 

[yobigd20]

I'm quite sure you wish your P85 had the same capability. I guess comments like that help you sleep better at night.

Thanks but I'll keep my P85's $20k cheaper price tag for being an early adopter instead.

 

[sorka]

Glad that the accident was avoided and there was no serious problem... but you shouldn't trust TACC to work flawlessly on side-streets. It's designed for highway/freeway cruising.

If you're going to use it on arterial streets... you should be fully at the ready for it to misread a situation.

The exact same scenario occurs on freeways all the time. One lane stops while the other lane doesn't so care in front of you changes to another lane. You are now behind the already stopped car.

 

[Krugerrand]

How many of the haters have read their own iPhone or Galaxy manual? Did you reread it after the latest iOS or Android update?

Not a 'hater', just asking that people take some personal responsibility when operating a moving hunk of metal that can kill others. I also don't own a cellphone, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't drive one, nor can they be used to cut down trees, or anything else that might cause others to be hurt or injured. But feel free to correct me.

 

[green1]

Seems most people would prefer technology never advances. They are getting a system that is as advanced as the most advanced ones on the planet, but say they will never use it because it isn't 100% perfect. They'd rather have a more basic cruise control.

I don't understand these people. Nobody has yet pointed out any situation that a competitor's product handles better, nobody has yet shown a situation that didn't happen exactly as Tesla said it would, and nobody has yet shown a situation where TACC got in to a collision (though that is likely to happen eventually if people keep using it in situations it wasn't designed for, and expect it to do things Tesla explicitly says it won't do)

 

[scottm]

I'm opposed to the outsourcing (blaming) driver operator responsibility onto technology features of a car.

TACC is an assist. You are the driver. You have an override system (the brakes) so use them.

This is a normal and expected driving situation, no congratulations are in order for stopping here.

Stay alert! It is expected of you.

The driver ahead doesn't give a crap about what technology wonders should have stopped your fancy car from landing up his arse. Never will.

 

[GregTexas]

Found better info on the Nissan system: "Nissan, for instance, now has a feature called Predictive Forward Collision Warning. This system not only monitors the speed and position of the car ahead, but it monitors the car in front of that one, as well. If the car ahead of the one just in front of you suddenly brakes or changes lanes, a Nissan with this the system will warn you and tighten your seatbelt."

 

[favo]

Tesla should probably have a Safety Feature Update message that pops up when a new software version adds or updates a safety feature (TACC, automatic braking/steering, autopilot, etc.) The message could force you at least to scroll to the end of the description of the new/changed feature(s) to help ensure people understand these things a little better. I suppose they could have a "Remind Me Later" button that would cause the message to pop-up the next time the car starts up (or whatever), maybe even blocking new features from being enabled in the interim.

Here's a video showing cool current and future capabilities of Mobileye's computer vision systems in driver assistance/automated driving applications. Car/pedestrian/large animal tracking, traffic light and sign recognition, and road debris/pothole/bump detection are all discussed. Tesla is mentioned as a Tier 1 partner. Pretty interesting.
The Future of Computer Vision and Automated Driving by Prof. Amnon Shashua - YouTube

 

[scottm]

No! This leads to lawyer screens ... everyone knows that people just scroll to the bottom of those screens and hit OK no matter what. They don't actually read it. In fact, there's some case before the courts (in Canada I think) where the judge has ruled these 'acceptance of conditions screens' that come with software have no bearing on transferring liability in the case. THEY DO NOT HELP FORM ANY AGREEMENT OF THE CONTRACT! ...because it is common knowledge they are not effective in communicating terms.

Maybe any features that offer or change assists (safety or otherwise) should ship / arrive in a default OFF state.

The user must explicitly turn them on to take advantage of it. It's that action that puts the driver in command of the vehicle, even for assist features.

It's a delicate nanny state we're wading into that borders on taking away freedoms we enjoy today.

I don't want that.

 

[musicious]

Nobody has yet pointed out any situation that a competitor's product handles better, nobody has yet shown a situation that didn't happen exactly as Tesla said it would, and nobody has yet shown a situation where TACC got in to a collision (though that is likely to happen eventually if people keep using it in situations it wasn't designed for, and expect it to do things Tesla explicitly says it won't do)

I can give an example for comparison from my own experience! I got the 2013 Subaru Legacy Limited with Eyesight (like autopilot but beeps when drifting lanes, no lane keeping) and that was way better than my first few weeks attempting to use TACC. With its cameras (which have doubly improved in the second generation 2015 models) I never had any issue with slow reaction time to cars in front of me stopping quickly and it even reacted to cars merging into my lane as well as pedestrians and bikes.

I traded my Subaru in for under 18k to get the expensive Tesla instead of the new Subaru with better Eyesight PRIMARILY because Autopilot was supposed to be the most advanced selfdriving feature of any car for years to come.

Now I already have had issues with my 85D not slowing down as a car is already entering my lane from the next lane. What is much more concerning is today on the way home from work I was locked onto cruise a few car lengths from the car in front on a straight roadway and the traffic ahead was quickly slowing from 60-70mph down to a stop. My subaru would quickly react in that situation the past 3 yrs but my Tesla decelerated at a much slower pace than the car in front, then proceeded to beep upon nearing a few feet from the bumper of the car in front of me and with no noticeable emergency braking by my car I had no choice but to slam on the brakes myself to avoid an accident.

In addition, i have noticed without TACC enabled the emergency braking does not seem to activate for me in most situations especially at low speed. In contrast, the Subaru would completely prevent an accident if within 30mph of the speed of the car in front (or mitigate damage if a greater gap) even without cruise control activated, and at ANY speed with its emergency braking. I also find the blind spot warning system to be mediocre on the Tesla right now. I really hope they make big improvements with software updates.

I called Tesla HQ shortly after the near crash and reported the issue to the guy I was transferred to for technical assistance, he said he had not heard of a complaint like this and downloaded my car's sensor data from the time it occurred. He said they do not save video feeds but I suggested that would have helped them analyze the issue and fix code if it saved at least a few hours of video (which Subaru does in case of accidents) so he said he'll bring it up to his team. I mentioned this forum and thread stating that many others were experiencing issues as well. If I hear back I will let you know.

 

[Phil K]

I went back to the car and read the manual and there are many red warnings explaining that TACC is not meant to drive your cars without using the brake pedals, and they have listed the conditions that TACC may not be able to read the situations correctly. I think as drivers, when using a feature at high cruising speed, we are responsible to know what the feature is for and its limitations. TACC is a driver-assist feature and we should not expect it to take over driving.

 

[musicious]

I went back to the car and read the manual and there are many red warnings explaining that TACC is not meant to drive your cars without using the brake pedals, and they have listed the conditions that TACC may not be able to read the situations correctly. I think as drivers, when using a feature at high cruising speed, we are responsible to know what the feature is for and its limitations. TACC is a driver-assist feature and we should not expect it to take over driving.

That doesn't change the fact that I had a car that cost 1/5th of the price of my new Tesla and had adaptive cruise and emergency breaking that worked significantly better in the same situations that the Tesla has very poor reaction despite having cameras, radar and sonar. I am not expecting perfection but at least I expect it to be comparable in functionality to my much cheaper car I traded in to get the Tesla.

 

[Krugerrand]

That doesn't change the fact that I had a car that cost 1/5th of the price of my new Tesla and had adaptive cruise and emergency breaking that worked significantly better in the same situations that the Tesla has very poor reaction despite having cameras, radar and sonar. I am not expecting perfection but at least I expect it to be comparable in functionality to my much cheaper car I traded in to get the Tesla.

And that doesn't change the fact that you're using the car in a manner Tesla tells you it's not intended to be used.