TACC should be standard on Model S without EAP

[sparkypete]

A friend of mine has just bought a VW Tiguan (approx 30k) and he has TACC as standard. It's a great system - maintaining a programmable gap and slowing to a stop in traffic.

I don't think it's right to charge an extra 5k for people who want this feature on a Model S. The hardware is all there.

I'm hoping that as the software development gets funded by more customers with Model 3 coming online that we'll see more standard features and a drop in the price of the EAP upgrade.

 

[WarpedOne]

I'm sure right stalk won't have empty AUTOPILOT position.

 

[JPUConn]

When the 3 comes out i wouldn't be surprised it some of the convenience features like tacc or lane keep assist (not necessarily auto steer) become standard on S and X as a differentiator between models.

 

[SageBrush]

Is TACC really only an option on the Model S ? It is well implemented on my base model, $27k Prius Prime and I have come to rely on it.

That is the only part of AP besides safety I really want.

 

[WarpedOne]

Enjoy your prius, let me have my M3 a bit sooner.
Deal?

 

[whitex]

Model 3 will not be able to charge such high prices. Check out Bolt option prices (including options Tesla doesn't offer, like surround vision. And before I get flamed by Tesla fanboys that you don't need surround because FSD will just drive and perfectly park the car by itself - please hold off on those until Tesla actually does that). Once the competition catches up with EV technology, including charging networks, Tesla will have to offer significantly better products at a much cheaper price to compete. And for those who think AutoPilot is Tesla's ace in the hole, check out this video a self-driving Nissan Leaf (to be released in 2020) - that was with press in the car, not a spliced up, edited video like Tesla's. The competition is not sitting idle, they just don't hype up their dreams like Elon Musk on twitter.

 

[sparkypete]

Is TACC really only an option on the Model S ? It is well implemented on my base model, $27k Prius Prime and I have come to rely on it.

That is the only part of AP besides safety I really want.

Yes it's only available with the Enhance Autopilot option costing 5k with the order or 6k if added after. I don't want self-driving or auto-steer but adaptive cruise would be really handy and is a low cost option / standard on many cars these dates.

 

[whitex]

Yes it's only available with the Enhance Autopilot option costing 5k with the order or 6k if added after. I don't want self-driving or auto-steer but adaptive cruise would be really handy and is a low cost option / standard on many cars these dates.

TACC is not likely to get included in the base price, as it's the only actually working feature of EAP right now, so needed to justify the $5K. It does have an advantage over other manufacturers adaptive cruise controls - TACC can do stop and go traffic. most of the other guys disengage at lower speeds.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Model 3 will not be able to charge such high prices. Check out Bolt option prices (including options Tesla doesn't offer, like surround vision. And before I get flamed by Tesla fanboys that you don't need surround because FSD will just drive and perfectly park the car by itself - please hold off on those until Tesla actually does that). Once the competition catches up with EV technology, including charging networks, Tesla will have to offer significantly better products at a much cheaper price to compete. And for those who think AutoPilot is Tesla's ace in the hole, check out this video a self-driving Nissan Leaf (to be released in 2020) - that was with press in the car, not a spliced up, edited video like Tesla's. The competition is not sitting idle, they just don't hype up their dreams like Elon Musk on twitter.

Check out the other Nissan Leaf video where their autonomous demo really didn't do well at well.

The competition _are_ hyping up their dreams. That's what Nissan's video is. That's what the Bolt videos are. That's what google's videos are. They are all dreams. The difference is that Tesla's dreaming of improving the software that uses hardware they're already selling, while other companies are dreaming that either their software will achieve Level 5 autonomy so that they can sell their expensive hardware, or that their hardware will become cheap enough that their systems will be worth selling.

 

[whitex]

Check out the other Nissan Leaf video where their autonomous demo really didn't do well at well.

The competition _are_ hyping up their dreams. That's what Nissan's video is. That's what the Bolt videos are. That's what google's videos are. They are all dreams. The difference is that Tesla's dreaming of improving the software that uses hardware they're already selling, while other companies are dreaming that either their software will achieve Level 5 autonomy so that they can sell their expensive hardware, or that their hardware will become cheap enough that their systems will be worth selling.

Show me one video from Tesla showing off FSD with press in the car, rather than some engineer that got to try it 100 times and then splice together a demo video. Yes the Nissan self-driving is not finished yet, but it sure looks way ahead of the FSD that Tesla has demonstrated so far. And if you really think Tesla will deliver "car sharing and ride hailing" on AP2 hardware cars as per the FSD description on their website, you already drunk the hype CoolAid.

 

[Az_Rael]

TACC can do stop and go traffic. most of the other guys disengage at lower speeds.

I don't think that is true anymore. This list of cars that have full speed ACC seems pretty extensive. Autonomous cruise control system - Wikipedia

 

[SageBrush]

Highway TACC is such a useful feature, I've readjusted my mental arithmetic to say that a base Model 3 is over $35k. We'll have to see by how much more.

 

[McRat]

A friend of mine has just bought a VW Tiguan (approx 30k) and he has TACC as standard. It's a great system - maintaining a programmable gap and slowing to a stop in traffic.

I don't think it's right to charge an extra 5k for people who want this feature on a Model S. The hardware is all there.

I'm hoping that as the software development gets funded by more customers with Model 3 coming online that we'll see more standard features and a drop in the price of the EAP upgrade.

Best I can tell, the base Tiguan has neither AEB, or ACC. It does have a rear plate camera, but that's about it.

It might be available but it is not standard. The Atlas is not standard either at $34,500. The Touareg has AEB and ACC standard at $50,400.

 

[croman]

If you want TACC, open up your checkbook. Tesla isn't about freebies. These shareholders need their return on investment. That doesn't come by giving things out for free. All VW gives us for free is 40x NOx and SO2. Thanks VW!

 

[McRat]

Is TACC really only an option on the Model S ? It is well implemented on my base model, $27k Prius Prime and I have come to rely on it.

That is the only part of AP besides safety I really want.

But does a car as slow as a Prius need forward facing ACC? Wouldn't rear facing ACC be a better technology for it?

(Note for Green Folk - ACC technology wastes fuel. While it does help you text while driving, if you are looking for low carbon, look elsewhere. It can waste up to 20% more energy in stop and go situations than an educated foot.)

 

[croman]

But does a car as slow as a Prius need forward facing ACC? Wouldn't rear facing ACC be a better technology for it?

(Note for Green Folk - ACC technology wastes fuel. While it does help you text while driving, if you are looking for low carbon, look elsewhere. It can waste up to 20% more energy in stop and go situations than an educated foot.)

If the ACC is properly calibrated, I can't see how it wouldn't be almost as efficient in an EV due to regen braking taking care of most of the slowing. I agree if its racing forward to close a gap and then slamming on the friction brakes it will be inefficient but that's also how I observe most people drive in stop and go for some reason.

 

[gowthamn]

If you want TACC, open up your checkbook. Tesla isn't about freebies. These shareholders need their return on investment. That doesn't come by giving things out for free. All VW gives us for free is 40x NOx and SO2. Thanks VW!

A 27k car has it. But a 100k car does not. Tesla is really overcharging.

 

[gowthamn]

But does a car as slow as a Prius need forward facing ACC? Wouldn't rear facing ACC be a better technology for it?

(Note for Green Folk - ACC technology wastes fuel. While it does help you text while driving, if you are looking for low carbon, look elsewhere. It can waste up to 20% more energy in stop and go situations than an educated foot.)

Accept that tesla is overcharging there rather than change topic.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Show me one video from Tesla showing off FSD with press in the car, rather than some engineer that got to try it 100 times and then splice together a demo video. Yes the Nissan self-driving is not finished yet, but it sure looks way ahead of the FSD that Tesla has demonstrated so far. And if you really think Tesla will deliver "car sharing and ride hailing" on AP2 hardware cars as per the FSD description on their website, you already drunk the hype CoolAid.

Tesla has AP2 in is product that it's selling. You know what the price is. It just needs to (get and) stay ahead of other real products on the market. It's improving. Don't know how good it'll get, or whether the hardware is fundamentally capable of FSD and the only thing they'd need is redundancy.

Those systems on the Nissan Leaf, the Bolt and the Google-mobile are all currently more capable than AP2 but you can't buy them. Their investments in R&D are currently earning them $0.

So, you have manufacturers falling over each other to show you how great their unfinished autonomous systems will be once you can buy them. But none of them is saying how much the systems will cost and sadly (but not unexpectedly) journalists aren't asking the hard questions about cost, despite the fact that it's the system cost that will determine the disruption.

 

[Petra]

That is the only part of AP besides safety I really want.

I'm sure you aren't alone here, given that TACC makes up most of the core usefulness of Hardware 1 and Hardware 2's EAP (at present). But that's probably why TACC isn't a base feature or standalone option--fewer people would opt for EAP and Tesla needs to cover their hardware and development costs.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Show me one video from Tesla showing off FSD with press in the car, rather than some engineer that got to try it 100 times and then splice together a demo video. Yes the Nissan self-driving is not finished yet, but it sure looks way ahead of the FSD that Tesla has demonstrated so far. And if you really think Tesla will deliver "car sharing and ride hailing" on AP2 hardware cars as per the FSD description on their website, you already drunk the hype CoolAid.

Tesla has AP2 in is product that it's selling. You know what the price is. It just needs to (get and) stay ahead of other real products on the market. It's improving. Don't know how good it'll get, or whether the hardware is fundamentally capable of FSD and the only thing they'd need is redundancy.

Those systems on the Nissan Leaf, the Bolt and the Google-mobile are all currently more capable than AP2 but you can't buy them. Their investments in R&D are currently earning them $0.

So, you have manufacturers falling over each other to show you how great their unfinished autonomous systems will be once you can buy them. But none of them is saying how much the systems will cost and sadly (but not unexpectedly) journalists aren't asking the hard questions about cost, despite the fact that it's the system cost that will determine the disruption.

 

[McRat]

If the ACC is properly calibrated, I can't see how it wouldn't be almost as efficient in an EV due to regen braking taking care of most of the slowing. I agree if its racing forward to close a gap and then slamming on the friction brakes it will be inefficient but that's also how I observe most people drive in stop and go for some reason.

Because it tries to maintain a distance by using excessive acceleration and excessive regen. If you let the distance float, you will go further.

Try it. Don't take my word for it. For me it's the difference between 58 miles and 70 miles on the same amount of power and ETA.