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Target Tesla: How Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Porsche Plan to Shock Tesla

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But that analogy is not really true is it? Tesla also keeps promising and promising, and then takes endless time to deliver, if ever:
among others
- Center Console
- Battery Swap
and above all
- Model X

Whereas Apple indeed kept delivering rather promptly, Tesla (and EM especially) is "renowned" for overpromise, underdeliver.

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While I will not contest that Winterkorn might not be a fan of BEVs, at least VW has the best everyman EVs out there currently. Especially the e-Golf, while not a Tesla rival, is a fantastic BEV. Top quality, great tech, ample range for everyday use, fun to drive and still relatively affordable. Remember, for one Model S you get two to three well equipped e-Golfs here. How is that for value for money?

You should probably remove battery swap from your list of non-delivered items since Harris Ranch California has a functioning battery swap station.
 
You should probably remove battery swap from your list of non-delivered items since Harris Ranch California has a functioning battery swap station.


functioning? The battery swap thread has not had a single mention of a successful swap actually happening outside of a beta. In fact there has not been a single post in the last month except for someone asking for an update.
 
You should probably remove battery swap from your list of non-delivered items since Harris Ranch California has a functioning battery swap station.

I could also remove the center console, because they seem to have delivered a few by now. My point was not that they didn't deliver at all. But rather that they (Tesla in general, EM in particular) like to make grand promises and then they often seem to forget about implementing them in time.

Or, as someone else pointed in the direction of Microsoft with their endless patching/updates for their software: in what way is Tesla any different? Model S keeps getting firmware updates/patches regularly, not only to implement new features but also to iron out bugs that have cropped up. In fact it is considered by many to be one of the greatest aspects of Tesla, that their products can be upgraded even after the initial purchase, is it not?.

So even if we try to be fair we have to concede that Tesla and Microsoft do have some things in common. Plus, it's not that Apple is so perfect after all, especially considering the prices they ask for their products. My Samsung Galaxy S3 mini for example has also been working without a glitch for over two years, even though it is stuffed with third party apps that could crash the system easily, but miraculously they don't. Otoh I know quite a few people who got so fed up with their iPhones that they have replaced them with Android phones.

Point being, no manufacturer is perfect, even if some die-hard enthusiasts want to believe that way.

Tesla isn't perfect, neither is Apple, or Google, or any of the current ICE manufacturers. Everyone is trying their best to create products that sell well and please customers, and all of them seem to succeed on one level or another.
 
I could also remove the center console, because they seem to have delivered a few by now. My point was not that they didn't deliver at all. But rather that they (Tesla in general, EM in particular) like to make grand promises and then they often seem to forget about implementing them in time.

Or, as someone else pointed in the direction of Microsoft with their endless patching/updates for their software: in what way is Tesla any different? Model S keeps getting firmware updates/patches regularly, not only to implement new features but also to iron out bugs that have cropped up. In fact it is considered by many to be one of the greatest aspects of Tesla, that their products can be upgraded even after the initial purchase, is it not?.

So even if we try to be fair we have to concede that Tesla and Microsoft do have some things in common. Plus, it's not that Apple is so perfect after all, especially considering the prices they ask for their products. My Samsung Galaxy S3 mini for example has also been working without a glitch for over two years, even though it is stuffed with third party apps that could crash the system easily, but miraculously they don't. Otoh I know quite a few people who got so fed up with their iPhones that they have replaced them with Android phones.

Point being, no manufacturer is perfect, even if some die-hard enthusiasts want to believe that way.

Tesla isn't perfect, neither is Apple, or Google, or any of the current ICE manufacturers. Everyone is trying their best to create products that sell well and please customers, and all of them seem to succeed on one level or another.

Consoles are not grand promises. Sorry, but to me that's just a nit on the rear end of a tse tse fly.

Battery swap was not promised... demonstrating that it is possible does not constitute a promise to implement.

Model X lead time? Well, yes, that's a miss on something big in my book.

But then, what about the things that were never hyped or "promised", but just announced and then shipped (or in some cases, shipped then announced)? Dual motor? Auto-pilot capability?

I just think anyone that gets twisted up over delay in seats, weak media player (which nearly twists me), lack of finishes in center console... should step back and take a look at the big picture of what's been provided and how the product has advanced over 2.5 years... with many of the advances accruing to existing owners... don't know when/where that's happened with a car before.

Yes, not perfect... but something better in my book: ambitious with a high batting average!
 
Tesla has come from nothing to everything in a decade. And it's a car, not a smart phone, although sometimes it feels like ... a tablet with wheels and motor.

I am mainly annoyed by their overly cautious policy on secrecy. New features - fine. But bug fixes, delivery dates, reasons for delays ... and something like boring sales statistics - why does it need to be so secret?

The main reason must be to create some mystery and speculation, creating free advertisement.
 
Especially the e-Golf, while not a Tesla rival, is a fantastic BEV. Top quality, great tech, ample range for everyday use, fun to drive and still relatively affordable. Remember, for one Model S you get two to three well equipped e-Golfs here. How is that for value for money?

Sorry - not here in Germany!

How cheap is the 3-Golf in North America? Here in Germany the e-Golf in its base configuration starts at 34,900 EUR. And with their nifty configuration options where you need other stuff you didn't want if you select, for instance, lane assist, you are at 37, 721 EUR with just back seat side airbags, car-net-e-remote, normal cruise control plus lane assist (which adds other assisted driving features, too).

So it's half the German base price of a Model S 85, which gives you a car with about 1/3 of the real world range - and still no CCS charging capability, which is another 600 EUR.

Frank
 
While I will not contest that Winterkorn might not be a fan of BEVs, at least VW has the best everyman EVs out there currently. Especially the e-Golf, while not a Tesla rival, is a fantastic BEV. Top quality, great tech, ample range for everyday use, fun to drive and still relatively affordable. Remember, for one Model S you get two to three well equipped e-Golfs here. How is that for value for money?

I liked the eGolf too, but not the short range. Maybe I could buy three of them, equip them with trailer hitches and create a 15-passenger articulated EV with the same range as a Tesla? :)

My guess is that the 2017 goal for charging stations on the Autobahns might be to support the eGolf and the (hideous) i3.

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Sorry - not here in Germany!

How cheap is the 3-Golf in North America? Here in Germany the e-Golf in its base configuration starts at 34,900 EUR. And with their nifty configuration options where you need other stuff you didn't want if you select, for instance, lane assist, you are at 37, 721 EUR with just back seat side airbags, car-net-e-remote, normal cruise control plus lane assist (which adds other assisted driving features, too).

So it's half the German base price of a Model S 85, which gives you a car with about 1/3 of the real world range - and still no CCS charging capability, which is another 600 EUR.

Frank

The eGolf here in California comes only in the top SEL trim version at $36,550 including Bosch home charging system capable of 7.2 kW. After federal $7500 tax credit and CA $2,500 rebate, it is indeed a price competitive car. The biggest drawback is a lack of fast charging station network. There is one charger at the VW dealer and one at the BMW dealer and a promise of a Audi, VW, BMW, Mercedes network of chargers in the future.
 
The eGolf here in California comes only in the top SEL trim version at $36,550 including Bosch home charging system capable of 7.2 kW. After federal $7500 tax credit and CA $2,500 rebate, it is indeed a price competitive car. The biggest drawback is a lack of fast charging station network. There is one charger at the VW dealer and one at the BMW dealer and a promise of a Audi, VW, BMW, Mercedes network of chargers in the future.

I believe there are about a couple dozen EVGo chargers in the LA area that support CCS charging.
 
Sorry - not here in Germany!

How cheap is the 3-Golf in North America? Here in Germany the e-Golf in its base configuration starts at 34,900 EUR. And with their nifty configuration options where you need other stuff you didn't want if you select, for instance, lane assist, you are at 37, 721 EUR with just back seat side airbags, car-net-e-remote, normal cruise control plus lane assist (which adds other assisted driving features, too).

So it's half the German base price of a Model S 85, which gives you a car with about 1/3 of the real world range - and still no CCS charging capability, which is another 600 EUR.

Frank

Ahem, I was in fact talking about Germany as that is where I am from.
And I said "for one Model S you get two to three e-Golfs here, which is true: the cheapest naked S60 starts at 71K Euro, which is more than twice the base price of a naked e-Golf. A fully loaded P85D is around 133K Euro versus around 44K for a fully loaded e-Golf.
So "two to three" is exactly the correct ratio.

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I liked the eGolf too, but not the short range. Maybe I could buy three of them, equip them with trailer hitches and create a 15-passenger articulated EV with the same range as a Tesla? :)

Sounds like something out of Top Gear UK - after all, how hard can it be? ;-)

And don't forget, the e-Golf is a commuter car, not a long range cruiser. For that it has more than ample range. The one I had as a test-drive car for several days got me about 200km for every full charge. I was quite impressed actually. And if you own an e-Golf and want to go e.g. on vacation, at least over here you get a free loaner for up to thirty days each year in the first three years.
 
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