Tax Bill and EV Tax Credit Discussion

[SageBrush]

This is how they will sell it.

The average guy will see a few hundred to a couple thousand deduction in taxes. They will think great. It will be a small percentage deduction. While the rich and corporations will see huge deductions. Thats why the JCT says that the vast majority of people will split 23% of the tax reductions and the vast minority will see 77% of the tax deductions. At the same time the tax changes for the vast majority will have the reductions go away in 10 years. Yes this will likely change, but the point of getting rid of the reductions in 10 years was so the additional deficit is pegged at $1.5T instead of a considerably larger number. Its saying we wont spend the money at the same time as saying of course we will spend the money.

Exactly so, except you neglected to mention the increased health care premiums and/or loss of insurance to "pay" for the corporate giveaway.

 

[SageBrush]

That of course, leads us on a race to the bottom and 0%

Like communities giving 0% tax rates to corporations to move/stay in their communities ?

 

[thx1139]

Like communities giving 0% tax rates to corporations to move/stay in their communities ?

Example I always give for this is AMC Theaters. They played Kansas City, MO against Kansas City, KS against each other. They moved across the river. Politicians then went out and claimed they brought thousands of jobs to town. Thing is the employees stayed the same. They just commuted to a different building.

 

[Reciprocity]

What writeoffs were lost. It is my understanding that all or most of the writeoffs werent removed.

Oh ATT after tax income was $13B this past year. So $20B pre-tax and $13B post tax. You do the math. The $200M is a drop in the bucket compared to the tax savings.

The write offs that allowed Corps to pay on average 24% instead of 35%. Some companies could take advantage of them some could not. Now none can and they all get a lower rate. I get that a direct bonus in 2017 is a drop in the bucket that will be saved in 2018, but its a start and more then likely most will be used to expand the business and compete on pricing, which is a savings passed on to us consumers and jobs or better jobs for people as ATT expands is business. ATT will probably bring some business home since tax rates will be cheaper hear then what they are paying outside the US which allows for other logistical advantages, like people working under one roof and less travel expense. I am sorry you dont see the value in it, but I do and so does the market obviously.

Again, taxes are corps are nothing more then a pass through to you and I. One way or another, we pay it. If that tax is very high, then companies look for ways around it, like moving jobs over seas and not bringing money back to the US. More people will have jobs because of this tax plan and people will pay less/get more value for their dollar when they consume products from these evil corps. Even if the corps just use the money to buy back stock, the market will go up and so will your 401k/IRA. Your going to need it because SSI is going to be bankrupt.

 

[thx1139]

The write offs that allowed Corps to pay on average 24% instead of 35%. Some companies could take advantage of them some could not. Now none can and they all get a lower rate. I get that a direct bonus in 2017 is a drop in the bucket that will be saved in 2018, but its a start and more then likely most will be used to expand the business and compete on pricing, which is a savings passed on to us consumers and jobs or better jobs for people as ATT expands is business. ATT will probably bring some business home since tax rates will be cheaper hear then what they are paying outside the US which allows for other logistical advantages, like people working under one roof and less travel expense. I am sorry you dont see the value in it, but I do and so does the market obviously.

Again, taxes are corps are nothing more then a pass through to you and I. One way or another, we pay it. If that tax is very high, then companies look for ways around it, like moving jobs over seas and not bringing money back to the US. More people will have jobs because of this tax plan and people will pay less/get more value for their dollar when they consume products from these evil corps. Even if the corps just use the money to buy back stock, the market will go up and so will your 401k/IRA. Your going to need it because SSI is going to be bankrupt.

Nice non answer. Did you do the math like I suggested? Dont think so you would see ATT paid 35%. Only 43% of the people are in the market in anyway.

 

[bhzmark]

bhzmark: just wondering if now that it's about to signed into law, is this still the case? Has anyone had a chance to review the actual House and Senate bill?

Yes, the conference bill was slightly modified by the Senate, and thus had to go back to the house (and lost a couple house votes along the way) but still preserves the current IRC 30D EV tax credit. Preserves it by not repealing it -- doesn't actually mention it at all.

The bill waiting to be signed is https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-115hr1eas2/pdf/BILLS-115hr1eas2.pdf

 

[Reciprocity]

Nice non answer. Did you do the math like I suggested? Dont think so you would see ATT paid 35%. Only 43% of the people are in the market in anyway.

Who gives a crap about one company. I am not going to "do the math" on ever company on the plant. We are talking about employers of many many millions of Americans. In fact, this bonus was give out today and ATT doesnt save a nickle this year, it only kicks in next year. ATT has a fiduciary duty to do whats based with those lower tax rates and I believe it will be beneficial to the average customer of ATT. This is my last post on this dumb subject. Paying less taxes is always best.

 

[thx1139]

Paying less taxes is always best.

Not when the real beneficiary is the top 1%. This is how the common people get played.

 

[SageBrush]

Paying less taxes is always best.

I recommend Saudi Arabia for you.

 

[SageBrush]

ATT has a fiduciary duty to do whats based with those lower tax rates and I believe it will be beneficial to the average customer of ATT.

The fiduciary duty is to the stock holder. Perhaps you have noticed the speculative increases in the stock market since the sociopathic pedophile went to live in the White House ? Now you know why.

 

[bkp_duke]

This is how they will sell it.

The average guy will see a few hundred to a couple thousand deduction in taxes. They will think great. It will be a small percentage deduction. While the rich and corporations will see huge deductions. Thats why the JCT says that the vast majority of people will split 23% of the tax reductions and the vast minority will see 77% of the tax deductions. At the same time the tax changes for the vast majority will have the reductions go away in 10 years. Yes this will likely change, but the point of getting rid of the reductions in 10 years was so the additional deficit is pegged at $1.5T instead of a considerably larger number. Its saying we wont spend the money at the same time as saying of course we will spend the money.

The top 1% pay almost 50% of the taxes in this country. Any tax break is going to dis-proportionally favor them, it's just plain simple math (or not so simple for some?).

 

[Reciprocity]

The fiduciary duty is to the stock holder. Perhaps you have noticed the speculative increases in the stock market since the sociopathic pedophile went to live in the White House ? Now you know why.

Are you off your meds homey. The markets like stability so I am going to assume most people dont agree with you as the markets are going up like crazy. Dont believe all the fake news and fake poles. The evidence is right in front of your eyes if you where open minded enough to see it. Certainly Trump is a flawed person, but he certainly has conservative policies and he is doing what he said he would do, which is not common for politicians. Most of them lie to get votes then forget to know you until they need more money to run again.

 

[ohmman]

The top 1% pay almost 50% of the taxes in this country. Any tax break is going to dis-proportionally favor them, it's just plain simple math (or not so simple for some?).

Um, no. That’s simple math making a simple assumption - that “any” tax break will allocate proportionally to what is currently paid.

Many other simple math outcomes result in no tax break for the top 1% and more for middle class taxpayers. Or, an increase for the higher income brackets and an even greater cut for the middle.

It’s not simple math, it’s a reflection of a specific assumption about how tax breaks should be allocated. Nothing more.

 

[bkp_duke]

Um, no. That’s simple math making a simple assumption - that “any” tax break will allocate proportionally to what is currently paid.

Many other simple math outcomes result in no tax break for the top 1% and more for middle class taxpayers. Or, an increase for the higher income brackets and an even greater cut for the middle.

It’s not simple math, it’s a reflection of a specific assumption about how tax breaks should be allocated. Nothing more.

OK, let's expound upon things then. Any BALANCED, or even semi-balanced tax break (i.e. something that is not just handing money to the lower and middle classes) will have a disproportionate effect upon the upper class.

 

[mspohr]

US utilities have finally realized electric cars may save them
Looks like electric utilities are behind extending tax credit to help them manage the grid and increase demand.

 

[McRat]

US utilities have finally realized electric cars may save them
Looks like electric utilities are behind extending tax credit to help them manage the grid and increase demand.

Not in SCE country, perhaps the largest EV market in the world in dollars per square mile of EVs.

The increasing push towards higher general rates, and Demand based billing pushes might make utilities rich, but it makes it up to 10 times more expensive to charge an electric car than run a Prius. $15.89 a kW surcharge or higher for EVSE charging, means a 10kW EVSE costs over $159 a month if you use just one time for 15 minutes. That's 50 gallons of gas, at 40 mpg, is 2000 miles a month or nearly twice the average car use. It doesn't matter that you used the power at 6 am when the grid has surplus supply.

 

[mspohr]

Not in SCE country, perhaps the largest EV market in the world in dollars per square mile of EVs.

The increasing push towards higher general rates, and Demand based billing pushes might make utilities rich, but it makes it up to 10 times more expensive to charge an electric car than run a Prius. $15.89 a kW surcharge or higher for EVSE charging, means a 10kW EVSE costs over $159 a month if you use just one time for 15 minutes. That's 50 gallons of gas, at 40 mpg, is 2000 miles a month or nearly twice the average car use. It doesn't matter that you used the power at 6 am when the grid has surplus supply.

I think you missed the point of the article and the letter from the utilities.

 

[McRat]

I think you missed the point of the article and the letter from the utilities.

Every morning on the radio and through EMail/Website that SCE is pushing EVs. However, the reality for the consumer is different. They are making adoption more difficult in practice. I am currently (har) in a battle over this.

Press releases are for PR. Tariff changes to increase the cost of power for EVSEs are for profits at the expensive of adoption.

Sure, with the new tariffs it's better for the utilities to have more EVs on the grid, but it's simply a higher profit margin they are after.
By endorsing tax-based rebates and customer-funded utility rebates, but in the long game, the utilities want to charge (har) more for EV kWh's by measuring charging by kW, not kWh, to milk a new cash cow. Fast charging is a BIG money maker.

They can sell their surplus power in the AM at several times the market rate because of EV technology.

 

[Merrill]

Every morning on the radio and through EMail/Website that SCE is pushing EVs. However, the reality for the consumer is different. They are making adoption more difficult in practice. I am currently (har) in a battle over this.

Press releases are for PR. Tariff changes to increase the cost of power for EVSEs are for profits at the expensive of adoption.

Sure, with the new tariffs it's better for the utilities to have more EVs on the grid, but it's simply a higher profit margin they are after.
By endorsing tax-based rebates and customer-funded utility rebates, but in the long game, the utilities want to charge (har) more for EV kWh's by measuring charging by kW, not kWh, to milk a new cash cow. Fast charging is a BIG money maker.

They can sell their surplus power in the AM at several times the market rate because of EV technology.

PG&E is doing the same thing, their marketing says they want you to save money install solar etc., but in reality they are sticking fees and charges on people who are saving electricity. The sad part is that the CPUC in in bed with them so they can do whatever they want.

 

[bkp_duke]

All the more reason I got a big fat 12kw solar system and 3 powerwalls.

My way of giving SDG&E the big middle finger.