The attachment from SmarterMotor posted only mention that a large number of non model S/X should receive the tax incentive. What exactly does that mean? If you order before the unveiling or under the 115K that was mention. What are the chances of getting the 7500 credits. I understand those that make over $250K don't qualified. Will other car maker such as leaf and bolt dip into the tax credit funds?
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Tax Credit Clarification
- Thread starter SmarterMotors
- Start date
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
Yes, that was the point I was trying to make. When people talk about income needed for the tax credits they usually mean adjusted gross income, or something similar, while that website uses taxable income after deductions, giving a misleadingly low income figure.
I thought there's a limit. Check out this site.
Top 15 FAQs on the Income Tax Credit for Plug-in Vehicles
Will I be ineligible to claim the credit if my income is too high?
There is no maximum income limitation for claiming the New Plug-in Tax Credit. As long as a taxpayer otherwise qualifies for the credit and has a sufficient tax liability
for the year, the taxpayer can claim the New Plug-in Tax Credit to reduce that tax liability down to zero (but not below zero). After the taxpayer has reduced his or her tax liability to zero, the taxpayer will lose any remaining excess New Plug-in Tax Credit, assuming the vehicle was used solely for personal driving.Here's a thought for those that don't have enough write off. Why not claim more dependency? Tax withheld is less. Thus you can offset that. I am not an accountant and just a thought.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
JBare
Member
I'm interested in learning more over the next 8 months or so so I can be ready to set up 2017 to involve more of a tax liability. Hopefully by the end of this year we'll have some sort of idea on how things are going, although I doubt too regarding ETA could be taken seriously still so far away. I'm sure people a lot smarter than me will contribute here and around the internet to help out with this!
Selling Stocks at a premium would create taxable income, so would that be considered liability?
Converting traditional IRA funds to a Roth would also cause that income to become taxable, increasing your liability?
Selling Stocks at a premium would create taxable income, so would that be considered liability?
Converting traditional IRA funds to a Roth would also cause that income to become taxable, increasing your liability?
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Yes and yes.
Are you sure you want to set up for 2017 rather than 2018 ?
IIRC the 'date of sale' is when you take delivery of the car
Darryl
ModelXTracker.com Co-Adm
It is impossible at this point to determine how many Model 3 purchasers will be eligible for the rebate. The two big factors are: 1) when will they actually start delivering cars to customers and 2) how many people will order and with what options . If they launch on time it will be a first as every other Tesla has been years late. Even two quarters could make a big difference as Tesla will be producing 25k Model S and X cars each quarter over half which stay in the US. If they get a second factory going in Europe less of these cars will be exported. Even without the second factory in Europe It would mean 35k additional X and S would get the rebate in just 2 quarters. They are now saying there will be over 550k reservations by time they start production. Since they will first be released in the US with the first cars being the maxed out and going to employee and current Tesla owners I personally think the majority if not all will be taken by Model S, X and employees and current owners.
JBare
Member
No, I think there is very little chance I take delivery next year but want to be a lot more knowledgeable on the subject and have a plan in place just in case. As a non-tesla owning East-coaster who waited in line I'm hoping for a Summer 2018 delivery.
JBare
Member
I thought I read that they're somewhere around 70k total us deliveries now. Is the 2017 estimate still around 60k? Let's say 40k of those are delivered in the US; so now we enter 2017 @ 110k. If they do another 80k total sales (S/X only) in 2017, 60k being US, now we're almost to 200k without a model 3 sold.
I'm hoping they go against the track record and get these things going somewhat on time. We'll
see
Hey Dukester, the income limit is ONLY for the California State EV Rebate of $2500 (I am sure other states have other restrictions). To my knowledge there is NO income limit for the Federal $7500 tax credit as your post is talking about. In my opinion, even if you ordered today (maybe position 325,000+), you would still get some tax credits. Here is why:
• Of those 325,000 pre-orders only a fraction will really end up in actual purchases. Lets assume a figure like 75% because some people don't want to wait or really don't have money to buy this vehicle.
• Of those 325,000 pre-orders only a fraction of them of them are USA purchases. The pre-order count numbers published are worldwide and we should only care about USA. Another user on here posted that it is about 50% for USA and I think that is a fair guess based on his comparison to the Model S numbers.
Hypothetically:
If you pre-order today as reservation number 325,000 (today's current backlog), then assuming only 75% convert to true sales, that means only 243,750 Model 3. Then lets say half of those are in the USA, then that's 121,875 Model 3s. So the competition for a Model 3 is not that bad right now.
It is not too late. If you order early you have a better chance but in my in my opinion, all orders up until launch and even some thereafter will receive some tax credits as there is up to 18 months of some tax credits. Also, my numbers are all estimates. There could be more cancellations OR less USA orders.
As for your question about the Leaf, Bolt, and other EV, it should NOT affect the $7500 for Tesla. To my knowledge it isn't a total aggregate fund that has a dollar value limit. The way it works is each manufacturer has a expiration period for their tax credits. It is once the manufacturer hits their 200,000th eligible car, then the 15-18 month phaseout starts. It is per manufacturer and not a total among all companies or a total value shared among all car manufacturers.
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There is no income limit for the Federal $7500 Tax Credit. However, there are some income limits for California's $2500 rebate. Some other states may impose a income limit for their state credits/rebate.
So far Louisiana is the best. They have up to an extra $9500 in tax credits. That means you can get a $7500 from Federal and $9500 in State, which totals to $17,000. At a $35,000 price point, that is almost 50% off. Pretty sweet deal.
Here is Tesla's Incentives list:
Incentives
Also, some strategies for the people who are limited by income in the State of California for the $2500 EV Rebate, you can buy it under a company. They do not impose tax credits for businesses. In a pass through type business such as a S-Corp, you can apply the credit from your K-1 to your individual 1040. It is just a tactic if you really want to maximize it.
I thought I did. Sorry if I didn't.
Yes, it is based solely on time (the 200K number merely triggers the phaseout process). The phaseout is up to 18 months at best and 15 months at worst (see page one of this post for the breakdown of how the phaseouts work). I personally think most people will get some tax credit because Tesla will more than likely deliver it's 200,000th vehicle very close to when the Model 3 starts being delivered.
As to the second part of your question, YES, the tax credits apply to all of Tesla's vehicles since they are Electric Vehicles. So if you want a Model S or X it still applies to those. The 200K triggers is for ALL CARS that Tesla makes starting from January 1, 2010 that are delivered in the USA. So don't let the total worldwide numbers that some posts use to fool you. Only USA sales matter for this 200K.
As a lot of other people have suggested, Tesla will probably build up US inventory and delivery more overseas to stay under the 200K. They may also slow down USA production too. This is their make it or break it vehicle and I am sure they are well on their way in making sure they can meet demand. If I were Elon, I would already be finalizing designs on parts that I know will bottleneck production like the batteries, motors, and others that will not change by the next reveal. I would start making these parts now so when next year hits, it is all about assembling the cars as the parts are all there. Elon's a smart guy...he will make it happen for us Model 3 buyers.
InsideEVs estimates that Tesla will have the full $7500 federal tax credit until the end of 2018.
They also predict that GM's tax credits will phase out first.
When Will The $7,500 US Credit Expire For The Tesla Model 3...And Everyone Else?
GSP
They also predict that GM's tax credits will phase out first.
When Will The $7,500 US Credit Expire For The Tesla Model 3...And Everyone Else?
GSP
Attachments
I used to feel a little guilty that I was getting to have other people help me be able to afford purchasing an EV through the US Federal tax credit. However, after thinking more about it, my view is that the people (through their elected representatives) have decided that rather than sending $7500 to the Federal government as a tax payment, they will allow me to spend this $7500 (my own money) toward the purchase an EV. A reduction in taxes is MUCH different from a subsidy IMHO. If someone doesn't produce any value in society (as measured by the income they receive in return for their labor), then they cannot get their taxes reduced by $7500 BECAUSE THEY DON'T OWE ANY TAXES!
I understand that many people volunteer and help others in many ways for which they receive no compensation. This is a personal choice that they are making (which I admire, by the way). However, they cannot simultaneously make that choice and complain about being able to receive a reduction in their (minimal) taxes. People who view earning income as dirty or immoral need to consider Money as a Certificate of Appreciation. Unless you're involved in criminal activity, the money you earn is a result of a transaction where someone willing trades you the money they have for the labor you give. Unless indentured servitude is involved, both parties have decided that they are trading something they value less for something they value more.
If people want to "get the tax credit," then they 'simply' need to earn enough income to qualify for it. I know it's not really simple, but the process is well-understood. You either get a job that pays more (which may require education and/or training) or you spend more hours per week working at what you're already doing. Of course there are also one-time things that can increase your tax liability such as selling appreciated assets, converting retirement accounts, etc.
I understand that many people volunteer and help others in many ways for which they receive no compensation. This is a personal choice that they are making (which I admire, by the way). However, they cannot simultaneously make that choice and complain about being able to receive a reduction in their (minimal) taxes. People who view earning income as dirty or immoral need to consider Money as a Certificate of Appreciation. Unless you're involved in criminal activity, the money you earn is a result of a transaction where someone willing trades you the money they have for the labor you give. Unless indentured servitude is involved, both parties have decided that they are trading something they value less for something they value more.
If people want to "get the tax credit," then they 'simply' need to earn enough income to qualify for it. I know it's not really simple, but the process is well-understood. You either get a job that pays more (which may require education and/or training) or you spend more hours per week working at what you're already doing. Of course there are also one-time things that can increase your tax liability such as selling appreciated assets, converting retirement accounts, etc.
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
Question: there is a 200,000 car sale trigger. Got it and I understand the phaseout parts. But does EVERY car sold in the next phaseout part get covered? If they sell 50,000 or 500,000, is there any trigger that caps the tax credit?
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