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Taxis using charge points

Neilio

Member
Jul 8, 2020
831
476
Brentford
So my nearest BP polar 150kw chargers (four of and one 50kw I believe) are completely unusable because they are always being used by taxis. Not sure about the LEVC ones but most are leafs and I’m certain they can’t charge at those speeds. Do I have any right to be upset about this? Technically having no usable high speed chargers near me? Or is it fine that taxis use them constantly?

It’s a PIA having to connect to a nearby 50 kw and wait so much longer or even worse stick it on a source London one for the whole day. Do we need a separate infrastructure for taxis? It doesn’t seem fair they can take away (for this country at least) a reasonable sized charging station and completely monopolise it
 

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
2,442
2,186
Shropshire
I don't suppose the chargepoint owners care so long as they are being used. and Taxi drivers are people too so I'm told
What I am hearing is that more chargers are needed.
The only issue I see is that its a bit of a waste if the chargers are higher power than the taxi's can take advantage of but unless there is an unused 50KW next to a higher power one I am not sure I could blame someone for using it
 
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Neilio

Member
Jul 8, 2020
831
476
Brentford
I don't suppose the chargepoint owners care so long as they are being used. and Taxi drivers are people too so I'm told
What I am hearing is that more chargers are needed.
The only issue I see is that its a bit of a waste if the chargers are higher power than the taxi's can take advantage of but unless there is an unused 50KW next to a higher power one I am not sure I could blame someone for using it
I think the issue is it makes it unusable for everyone else. Unless you are a taxi driver and can afford to sit there waiting in between jobs you can't use the chargers. Or at least benefit from their speed if it takes you so long to queue up it would be quicker to drive to a 50 kW charger and suffer the slower charging. I don't begrudge a leaf, or a zoe from using a 150kw charger at all. But, if there are plenty of 50kwh one around (and there are round here) and the charger always has massive queues it seems really selfish that they should clog them up when they can get the same speed of charge elsewhere.
 

VanillaAir_UK

Supporting Member
Jun 17, 2019
7,192
4,696
Surrey, UK
Technically having no usable high speed chargers near me? Or is it fine that taxis use them constantly?

Playing devils advocate, is there any reason why you need to use a high speed charger near you when you have charging at home? imho, any form of public charging really for people who have no reasonable alternative. I say that from the experience of living for an extended period of time with no access to overnight charging, have very slow charging the other, but also, hands up, as someone who has got an hours opportunistic charging at a supermarket but only when highly unlikely to be hogging a charge point that someone else needed.

I would have thought that, if used responsibly, the Taxis having access to charging that allows them to serve a large number of people and significantly reduce emissions in an urban area is a pretty good use of that resource.
 
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Neilio

Member
Jul 8, 2020
831
476
Brentford
Playing devils advocate, is there any reason why you need to use a high speed charger near you when you have charging at home? imho, any form of public charging really for people who have no reasonable alternative. I say that from the experience of living for an extended period of time with no access to overnight charging, have very slow charging the other, but also, hands up, as someone who has got an hours opportunistic charging at a supermarket but only when highly unlikely to be hogging a charge point that someone else needed.

I would have thought that, if used responsibly, the Taxis having access to charging that allows them to serve a large number of people and significantly reduce emissions in an urban area is a pretty good use of that resource.

I no longer have access to charging at home. The in car chargers in our building have been broken since November and BP aren’t coming out to fix them. Also my building management guys are unwillingly to chase a fix given there is only me and someone with a plug in hybrid in the whole complex.

Yes it’s good that there are more electric taxis but very annoying that it stops every other EV user using the sparse fast charging infrastructure in this country. There should definitely be Seperate chargers for taxis. Maybe with better rates to promote business? The red diesel of the EV world
 

Doudeau

Member
Jan 9, 2020
86
75
Twickenham
Based on your location I’m guessing you’re speaking about the BP garage beside the Hammersmith flyover.

When I picked up my car in Oct 19 I used to joke with work colleagues that I was off to spend time eating M&S sandwiches and chatting to the cabbies whilst getting free electricity from BP (it was free there for quite a while at the start).

I fortunately got home charging before they started charging for the electricity but have noticed they’ve been pretty much fully occupied since - despite extortionate cost.

I rarely needed to queue back then but found it haphazard at best and so I do sympathise with you for needing to use them. I hope the toilet in the garage has been cleaned at some point too :(.
 
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Bantam

Member
Jul 29, 2020
59
52
UK
Engie Network here in West Yorks have the right idea, 2 bays per charger with one bay dedicated for Taxis only, so they can sit there on the AC connector until they get the next ride, while everyone else can use the DC connectors. Example below :-
engie.png
 
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Neilio

Member
Jul 8, 2020
831
476
Brentford
Based on your location I’m guessing you’re speaking about the BP garage beside the Hammersmith flyover.

When I picked up my car in Oct 19 I used to joke with work colleagues that I was off to spend time eating M&S sandwiches and chatting to the cabbies whilst getting free electricity from BP (it was free there for quite a while at the start).

I fortunately got home charging before they started charging for the electricity but have noticed they’ve been pretty much fully occupied since - despite extortionate cost.

I rarely needed to queue back then but found it haphazard at best and so I do sympathise with you for needing to use them. I hope the toilet in the garage has been cleaned at some point too :(.
That’s the one! It’s opposite my office so easy to get to. Shame it’s always full. Also no queueing system. It was like an autumn day, there were leafs scattered everywhere!
 

Neilio

Member
Jul 8, 2020
831
476
Brentford
Engie Network here in West Yorks have the right idea, 2 bays per charger with one bay dedicated for Taxis only, so they can sit there on the AC connector until they get the next ride, while everyone else can use the DC connectors. Example below :-
View attachment 641975
This would work. There is a dedicated taxi stand in Richmond but sadly it only has one charger. I’m definitely not against electric taxis I just think the issues with waiting for a spot will get worse unless the infrastructure improves a lot
 

Adopado

Active Member
Aug 19, 2019
3,298
2,465
Scotland
It does feel different when people are charging for their business. With a bit of coordination (I think they did this in Dundee) the needs of electric taxis could be specifically planned for ... effectively having chargers at the taxi rank. It's worthwhile because it's guaranteed consistent and predictable business for the electricity provider whereas many public chargers are used intermittently.
 

26ct2143

Member
Nov 22, 2020
179
71
Burton-on-Trent, UK
Yeah Leafs max out at about 50kw DC when empty (with a cool battery). So 150kw DC charger is not great for a leaf if a 50kw is there also.
If battery is hot from lots of driving/rapid charging it'll do about 25kw (or less), so taxi could be there ages...

If taxis are going to be sitting around for ages, then a whole row of 25kw DC chargers would probably be ideal, would reduce the power supply requirements and cheaper chargers also.
 

GeorgeSymonds

Member
Mar 16, 2018
939
546
UK
There was a similar debate about superchargers - some people seemed to think a taxi shouldn't charge because they wanted to while on their work trip - its the same principal deep down, charging an EV so you can do your job, and equally the frustration is the same for them as you if they can't charge.

What I would say, which seemed to be the thing with the Tesla supercharger near Heathrow T5 is make sure they're actually charging. You used to get a row of Teslas with some unplugged waiting for their next job, and/or waiting for a mate to arrive to hand the spot over to them. If there is any of that going on then it really is out of order.
 

Glan gluaisne

Supporting Member
Sep 11, 2019
2,782
2,689
UK
I'm in two minds about this. Public chargers are just that, public chargers, that can be used by anyone at any time, irrespective of their job.

The flip side is that if taxis are blocking access to chargers for long periods of time, then that's similar to someone pulling up to a filling station every day and sitting there for hours filling a tanker to use to refuel commercial vehicles somewhere.

The obvious answers are that we need more public charge points, and that, as more and more taxis switch to being EVs, there needs to be banks of chargers at taxi ranks, for their exclusive use. The latter solves the electric black cab issue, but doesn't help all the electric minicabs. I'd guess that there's a pretty big financial incentive for some city minicabs to switch to using EVs, from the lower running costs to not having to pay the congestion charge (as of last year non-wheelchair accessible minicabs have to pay this). The question is really who should fund charging provision for minicabs?
 

Rustybkts

Member
Feb 8, 2020
514
296
Leicestershire
I no longer have access to charging at home. The in car chargers in our building have been broken since November and BP aren’t coming out to fix them. Also my building management guys are unwillingly to chase a fix given there is only me and someone with a plug in hybrid in the whole complex.

That is just pure crazy. There is very little to go wrong with a 7kW EVSE (charger) so I guess that the supply has tripped.
Can't you report them to BP if the buildings management who I would understand you pay for the upkeep of the building (its in the name) are too lazy to pick up the phone.
 

Neilio

Member
Jul 8, 2020
831
476
Brentford
That is just pure crazy. There is very little to go wrong with a 7kW EVSE (charger) so I guess that the supply has tripped.
Can't you report them to BP if the buildings management who I would understand you pay for the upkeep of the building (its in the name) are too lazy to pick up the phone.
I reported it to BP. They said they were welcome to use as they are public chargers. But they have passed it in to the site manager too to investigate.
 

fancealot

Member
Jun 17, 2020
226
147
Doncaster & Leeds
There is a similar problem near me, albeit council vans.

A multi-storey car park with 12 7kw chargers, for most of the day the spots are fully occupied by the council fleet of EV vans, only now and again the spots are free for anyone else to use, it's been worse with the lockdowns as not as many council staff are working so the vans are there charged up but with noone driving them ... ever. I've emailed the council and apparently they were put in on a grant because of getting council vans and the public can use them but council vans take priority.

Now I do understand that point, my issue is vans are fully charged but left plugged in for months whilst they could be moved over to a normal parking space to allow people to come and use the spots. It is frustrating, ok i've got a home charger so i'm not in desperate need but if more EV's are going to be around a lot more charging points will need to be around and hogging of the spaces needs to be addressed.
 
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davidmc

Active Member
May 20, 2019
1,497
1,553
Leicester
There was a similar debate about superchargers - some people seemed to think a taxi shouldn't charge because they wanted to while on their work trip - its the same principal deep down, charging an EV so you can do your job, and equally the frustration is the same for them as you if they can't charge.

What I would say, which seemed to be the thing with the Tesla supercharger near Heathrow T5 is make sure they're actually charging. You used to get a row of Teslas with some unplugged waiting for their next job, and/or waiting for a mate to arrive to hand the spot over to them. If there is any of that going on then it really is out of order.

Tesla do state on their website that if you are a taxi (or any other commercial venture!! < thats a grey area) you should not use them.

Privacy & Legal | Tesla

Copied below:

Supercharger Fair Use

To help ensure that Superchargers are available for their intended use, we ask that you not charge your vehicle using a Supercharger if your vehicle is being used:

  • as a taxi;
  • for ridesourcing or ridesharing (through Uber, Lyft or similar services);
  • to commercially deliver or transport goods;
  • for government purposes; or
  • for any other commercial venture.
If you charge your vehicle in a manner that does not comply with this Supercharger Fair Use Policy, we may ask you to modify this behavior. We may also take additional action to protect the availability of Superchargers for their intended purpose, such as limiting or blocking your vehicle’s ability to use Supercharger stations.

This Policy applies to all Superchargers worldwide and all Tesla vehicles purchased, either new or used, whether from Tesla or a third party, after December 15, 2017. Tesla may choose to exclude certain Supercharger stations or occasional trips from the scope of this Policy, such as to accommodate specific local circumstances.
 
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