Taycan Takedown

[Daniel in SD]

Autoblog articles says they were running Sport Cup 2 R tires (Porsche GT2 RS and GT3 RS tires). On Tirerack they only come in two sizes, 265/35R20 and 305/30R21. The Porsche GT2 RS has the production car record at Laguna Seca, 1:28.3. They're pretty ridiculous tires to have on a street car.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

1:36.5 is only not bad? I assume you are being tongue in cheek?

"Not bad" means "good." It's obviously a very good time! I'm genuinely curious how the Taycan will do. Seems like it should not take too long before we find out.

As others have said, I do hope they actually make this something you can buy (minus whatever silly tires they might be using for this lap). Would be good if everything but the tires was something that they actually sell. Curious whether they have dual motors in the rear like the Roadster - assume not, but maybe they do.

 

[Daniel in SD]

That Taycan on the ring is also a prototype.

True. Next year's Refuel event will be much more interesting with the Taycan and maybe this new Model S.

 

[dfwatt]

"Not bad" means "good." It's obviously a very good time! I'm genuinely curious how the Taycan will do. Seems like it should not take too long before we find out.

As others have said, I do hope they actually make this something you can buy (minus whatever silly tires they might be using for this lap). Would be good if everything but the tires was something that they actually sell. Curious whether they have dual motors in the rear like the Roadster - assume not, but maybe they do.

Gotcha! Yes, everybody is dying to see what they've done to the S, and what the implications might be for a sportier and more capable Flagship.

I for one hope that they manage to do what Colin Chapman suggests - "make your best design, and then add 'lightness'" - or at least the feel of such, as EVs obviously have some gravitational challenges due to their large battery packs. One of the things I love about the M3, esp. with the MPP coilovers, is how snappy its turn in is, no doubt in part due to its very low PM of inertia, suggesting - at least from behind the wheel anyway - a lot less mass than its listed 4000 lbs would ever suggest.

Whatever else they did to make it perform and compete with the Taycan, I hope they can make the S feel much less ponderous. I drove an S when it first came out, and didn't buy it simply for that reason. Based on that early test drive, I was quite concerned (until the first turn on my test drive anyway!) that the Model 3 might inherit this, and not feel light on its feet. But they did a remarkable job in making the Model 3 super responsive. I don't know how they achieved that, aside from its advantages in PMOI, but I hope they bake some of that into the new Model S.

 

[Eno Deb]

Here's a reaction by Porsche's North America president:

Porsche welcomes a Tesla Nurburgring lap attempt

Regarding the mods he had this to say:

<begin quote>
Lately, images have surfaced of a Model S testing on the 'Ring running on sticky, race-compound tires and wearing aerodynamic appendages that Tesla doesn't currently make available. Zellmer doesn't have a problem with this -- so long as the company discloses any modifications. "That's obviously going to limit their relevance of what they've been doing," he added, pointing out that the Taycan lap was performed on a series-production car rolling on series-production tires. "Nothing a customer wouldn't buy," Zellmer said.
<end quote>

 

[juanmedina]

Is the plaid power train but is a year away . Only available for the S, X and roadster

 

[Eno Deb]

For German speakers, here's an article about Tesla's Nürburgring efforts from Auto Motor Sport magazine:

Model S-Attacke auf den Taycan-Rekord: Tesla entert die Nordschleife

Funny: not only did Tesla fly in two modified Model S with racing slicks, but also a large Diesel generator that is running day and night to charge them.

 

[dfwatt]

For German speakers, here's an article about Tesla's Nürburgring efforts from Auto Motor Sport magazine:

Model S-Attacke auf den Taycan-Rekord: Tesla entert die Nordschleife

Funny: not only did Tesla fly in two modified Model S with racing slicks, but also a large Diesel generator that is running day and night to charge them.

Fact check: Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires are not racing slicks!

 

[30seconds]

Fact check 2: Porsche was testing prototypes not production cars

 

[wenkan]

Here's a reaction by Porsche's North America president:

Porsche welcomes a Tesla Nurburgring lap attempt

Regarding the mods he had this to say:

<begin quote>
Lately, images have surfaced of a Model S testing on the 'Ring running on sticky, race-compound tires and wearing aerodynamic appendages that Tesla doesn't currently make available. Zellmer doesn't have a problem with this -- so long as the company discloses any modifications. "That's obviously going to limit their relevance of what they've been doing," he added, pointing out that the Taycan lap was performed on a series-production car rolling on series-production tires. "Nothing a customer wouldn't buy," Zellmer said.
<end quote>

Fake news! Just check the pics and Elon’s tweet. This is all about production prototype for the new Plaid Model S.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Fact check: Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires are not racing slicks!

They're close . They're "Streetable Track Tires" aka cheater tires, no reasonable person would run them on the street. Looks like the Taycan has Goodyear F1 Asymmetric 3 tires which are 300 treadwear (same class as Pilot Sport 4S).

 

[Eno Deb]

Fact check: Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires are not racing slicks!

Well, that's debatable. Michelin themselves call them "semi-slick" racing tires.

 

[Eno Deb]

Fake news! Just check the pics and Elon’s tweet. This is all about production prototype for the new Plaid Model S.

Well, according to Elon it's a year away, which probably means it's at least two years away. But I'm glad to see that Porsche prodded him into action. The first competitor that managed to ruffle his feathers.

 

[MP3Mike]

Well, according to Elon it's a year away, which probably means it's at least two years away. But I'm glad to see that Porsche prodded him into action. The first competitor that managed to ruffle his feathers.

I doubt Porsche had anything to do with it. It's not like they just threw this together in the last week or two. They have been working on the plaid powertrain for a long time, since before the new Roadster was revealed.

Maybe Porsche got them to show it publicly earlier than they had planned on it.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Well, according to Elon it's a year away, which probably means it's at least two years away. But I'm glad to see that Porsche prodded him into action. The first competitor that managed to ruffle his feathers.

Seems ill advised to advertise an upgraded car a year before it's available. It might lower Taycan sales (I sort fo doubt it) but it will definitely lower Model S sales. Who would buy a Ludicrous Model S now when Plaid is a year away?

 

[wenkan]

They're close . They're "Streetable Track Tires" aka cheater tires, no reasonable person would run them on the street. Looks like the Taycan has Goodyear F1 Asymmetric 3 tires which are 300 treadwear (same class as Pilot Sport 4S).
View attachment 453549

Many supercars are using this level of tires as everyday driver. They are just rich, not unreasonable.

 

[MP3Mike]

Seems ill advised to advertise an upgraded car a year before it's available. It might lower Taycan sales (I sort fo doubt it) but it will definitely lower Model S sales. Who would buy a Ludicrous Model S now when Plaid is a year away?

Well it depends. He said details "soon" and if one of those details is that it will cost $50k more then it might not Osborne the current Model S that much. And he keeps saying that the Model S&X don't matter that much, the Model 3 and Model Y are where it really counts.

 

[mongo]

They're close . They're "Streetable Track Tires" aka cheater tires, no reasonable person would run them on the street. Looks like the Taycan has Goodyear F1 Asymmetric 3 tires which are 300 treadwear (same class as Pilot Sport 4S).
View attachment 453549

Huh, I didn't know my truck had track tires...

I doubt Porsche had anything to do with it. It's not like they just through this together in the last week or two. They have been working on the plaid powertrain for a long time, since before the new Roadster was revealed.

Maybe Porsche got them to show it publicly earlier than they had planned on it.

Totally, that is production intent sheet metal and paint. Maybe it was built during the Fremont shutdown, or off site?

Seems ill advised to advertise an upgraded car a year before it's available. It might lower Taycan sales (I sort fo doubt it) but it will definitely lower Model S sales. Who would buy a Ludicrous Model S now when Plaid is a year away?

I'd trade an additional $40k mark up for a year's sale delay. Esp since not everyone can buy the most expensive car anyway.

 

[dfwatt]

Well, that's debatable. Michelin themselves call them "semi-slick" racing tires.

You just love to fudge the margins and obfuscate facts and definitions. It's uncanny. By definition racing slicks cannot be legally driven on the street. By definition Extreme Performance or streetable track tires can be driven on the street. Racing slicks get you a ticket.

Nice try but no soap. I don't understand. . . well. . . actually I do understand why you do this stuff. It's all part of the drum beat.

 

[dfwatt]

Many supercars are using this level of tires as everyday driver.

They are just rich, not unreasonable.

Hah! I like that one - gotta be swimming in cash to put those on a car for sure! That's what's stopping me from testing out the Yoko Advans, which just beat the RE71r. No coins!