FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
I like the Panbanana because it's available in wagon form
It would make more sense to make an all-electric 918 since it's already partially electric and better than the 911.
This is the correct answer!
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Taycan Takedown
- Thread starter evalst2018
- Start date
This is the correct answer!
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I’ve done 3 road trips where I used superchargers. On 2 of them I encountered broken chargers and lines. I wouldn’t say that problems are unique to Electrify America chargers.
I’m surprised many people here think Porsche is trying to make a mass market car like Tesla. Porsche doesn’t make mass market cars. Different business model.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
The truth... Porsche Taycan demonstrates difficulty launching performance EV on Tesla turf - Electrek
Yesterday’s Porsche Taycan launch should have been a monumental event for the EV industry. The top performance carmaker in the world unveiled its new flagship automobile and it is fully electric. Porsche has tons of orders, is putting its marketing might behind it and frankly, it is a damn fine automobile. Send us one… to test!
However, moments after the vehicle launched you could already hear the grumbling from Tesla fans and spec junkies.
Porsche’s flagship sports car doesn’t even match Tesla’s luxury sedan in important metrics like acceleration, top speed, and range even though it can only be had at a steep price premium.
Porsche actually built a 2-speed transmission and still couldn’t beat the top speed or acceleration of a Tesla sedan and the range isn’t even close? If Porsche can’t match Tesla’s sedan specs in a sports car with limited interior space, then what hope do other carmakers have?
Yesterday’s Porsche Taycan launch should have been a monumental event for the EV industry. The top performance carmaker in the world unveiled its new flagship automobile and it is fully electric. Porsche has tons of orders, is putting its marketing might behind it and frankly, it is a damn fine automobile. Send us one… to test!
However, moments after the vehicle launched you could already hear the grumbling from Tesla fans and spec junkies.
Porsche’s flagship sports car doesn’t even match Tesla’s luxury sedan in important metrics like acceleration, top speed, and range even though it can only be had at a steep price premium.
Porsche actually built a 2-speed transmission and still couldn’t beat the top speed or acceleration of a Tesla sedan and the range isn’t even close? If Porsche can’t match Tesla’s sedan specs in a sports car with limited interior space, then what hope do other carmakers have?
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Eno Deb
Active Member
They are actually doing very well despite the huge cost for Dieselgate and a general downturn in the auto industry.
Volkswagen Raises Profits As The Industry Worries About Its Future
I bet you a Taycan that nobody, including Tesla, will have real (level 5) autonomy in the next two years.
Lines are a hindrance for sure, but not a basic reliability issue. Lines also mean the chargers are actually working! There are almost never Supercharger lines in the Midwest for example, but the EA issues appear to be nationwide.
Second, how many locations did you use on your trips and can you estimate the % of total stops that had an issue? As I said the EA locations seem to all have various recurring issues, so at least my impression is you’d not be able to do any road trips using that network without experiencing issues. Again, in a $200K car? That’s just not acceptable. Or maybe the butler will handle the charging for the Taycan owners...
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Misha is an awesome driver. He can even instruct the ring with his eye shaded. Cannot wait to see the lap!
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
groovidad
Living the Dream!
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I used 4 different supercharger stations on the trips. It’s too small of a sample to determine what percentage of Superchargers have broken stalls. There were broken stalls at Lone Pine, Inyokern, Temecula, and some other one in LA somewhere. I do agree that the Supercharger network is probably better.Lines are a hindrance for sure, but not a basic reliability issue. Lines also mean the chargers are actually working! There are almost never Supercharger lines in the Midwest for example, but the EA issues appear to be nationwide.
Second, how many locations did you use on your trips and can you estimate the % of total stops that had an issue? As I said the EA locations seem to all have various recurring issues, so at least my impression is you’d not be able to do any road trips using that network without experiencing issues. Again, in a $200K car? That’s just not acceptable. Or maybe the butler will handle the charging for the Taycan owners...
My guess is that most Porsche buyers will charge at home and have a more appropriate car for road trips.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
This is fascinating. The Model S doesn’t even have a way to turn off stability control and the rear motor overheats very quickly so I’m guessing this will not be a production Model S. I’m hoping it’s a prototype with two Model 3 rear motors for torque vectoring. Maybe it’s a New Roadster drivetrain test mule...
Not so sure about the AP part. The only really useful features of Autopilot to date are lane keeping and ACC, and the Porsche has both. They also have what's probably Audi's traffic jam assist, which is an "almost" level 3 system. I guess we'll have to wait for independent test drives to see how they stack up against Autopilot.
That has been said about Porsche for decades. "Why get a 911 when you can get a Corvette for half the price?" Guess what, they are still making record profits, while GM went bankrupt and had to be bailed out. I guess they must know something we don't.
I was just in a Panamera with both and it was a joke.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
It’s definitely coming in the New Roadster. I’m surprised that Porsche didn’t do dual rear motors for the Taycan. It seems like the maximal performance solution and would probably only add a minimal amount of weight.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Well, they are already at 5100+ pounds...I guess you could argue they can ill afford even more weight, or...what’s another couple hundred pounds between friends?
except 914, 924, 944, cayenne, macan
There are lots of people who would buy mercedes E and S, bmw 5 6 7 and audi A6 and A8 (and porsche panamera) who wont buy a Model 3 (maybe for their kids) but would buy a Model S. That is a great market and the Model S competes well in that market. Kills it actually. I dont understand how anyone would buy any of those ICE instead of a Model S.
Absolutely. My point is that sheer numbers aren't the whole story as @Eno Deb has implied. It's about plug numbers, placement, and reliability--Same aspects that matter for gas stations.
My experience is anecdotal as well, but I've used Superchargers and CCS and the latter is just horrible in all 3 even as the numbers get better. From what I see/read it seems like it's already good in California but try roadtripping a CCS car in the Midwest... I've done it and it's bad. I'd bet CSS in most of the country is still years behind and Supercharger progress is not stopping.
I'm expecting the lines issue to start affecting EA locations once the VW ID lineup ramps up. 4-8 chargers in a location is going to buckle under that strain just like Supercharges in California. Maybe worse, as it's basically every brand outside of Tesla/Nissan sharing those.
I don't think it will practically affect Taycan owners that much, but we shouldn't just pretend that situation is on par with Superchargers because it's just not.
Eno Deb
Active Member
Exactly, anecdotal. Not sure what your point is. If you have any hard data about network uptimes, just post them.
I have had plenty of issues with superchargers as well (out of order, unexplicably slow, lines), and here in the CA metro areas you almost always share a charger with someone else, which means you get far less than 150kW in practice most of the time.
Ironically it's the other way around. EA is lagging in CA compared to other states (because of slow permitting).
EA has built about the same number of stations in one year that took Tesla 3 or 4. Once the Taycan is delivered in the US, the network will be perfectly usable.
They have explicitly planned many sites for future expansion. Obviously for now it is more important to get broad coverage.
And it doesn't have to be since the network doesn't have to serve the same number of cars for now. And obviously in the long run the hope is that not just EA, but other companies also start deploying more fast CCS chargers. This is a much better way to scale up the charging infrastructure than a single company going it alone.
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JohnSnowNW
Active Member
I've got 3 kids, and prefer a bit higher riding position than the Model 3.
Can't speak for others, however.
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