Taycan Takedown

[Daniel in SD]

brochure

I wish Tesla offered more colors on the Model 3. When every other car is a Model 3, like it is around here, it would be nice to see some variety!
Who am I kidding, everyone would just order a shade of gray anyway

 

[Eno Deb]

brochure

Interesting. This brochure also has more detailed battery specs: the capacity is 93.4 kWh gross and 83.7 kWh net, so a buffer of ~10%.

 

[Scott7]

Exactly, anecdotal. Not sure what your point is. If you have any hard data about network uptimes, just post them.

I did post them. Just about all the reviews on PlugShare for EA locations look like this. Head over to plugshare.com and see for yourself. And while you're there scan the reviews on the supercharger locations as a comparison.

All I see (in the Midwest where I live) is perfect 10.0 ratings on Supercharges and EA locations are full of comments about the issues they had. Agree it may be that the west coast is totally different

 

[dfwatt]

Absolutely. My point is that sheer numbers aren't the whole story as @Eno Deb has implied. It's about plug numbers, placement, and reliability--Same aspects that matter for gas stations.

My experience is anecdotal as well, but I've used Superchargers and CCS and the latter is just horrible in all 3 even as the numbers get better. From what I see/read it seems like it's already good in California but try roadtripping a CCS car in the Midwest... I've done it and it's bad. I'd bet CSS in most of the country is still years behind and Supercharger progress is not stopping.

I'm expecting the lines issue to start affecting EA locations once the VW ID lineup ramps up. 4-8 chargers in a location is going to buckle under that strain just like Supercharges in California. Maybe worse, as it's basically every brand outside of Tesla/Nissan sharing those.

I don't think it will practically affect Taycan owners that much, but we shouldn't just pretend that situation is on par with Superchargers because it's just not.

It's not clear why someone would even argue that there is anything out there remotely comparable OVERALL to the current Tesla SC network in terms of either convenience/availability or average speed of charge. There are a grand total of two (that's right just 2!) fast charging stations in all of Eastern MA, one of them on the near Cape, the other is well south of Boston proper in Braintree (not easy to get to!). It's totally inconvenient compared to the SC network, which has 12 in Eastern MA, with another 7 coming in, in the same territory. So anyone who claims that the EA network is or will shortly be comparable is just drunk on BS.

I'd also love to see costs for the two networks. Admittedly, Tesla has jacked up their pricing structure to above local utility rates, which they stated they wouldn't do. We are insulated from those issues, with free lifetime SC benefits, but those are going to be made of Unobtainium.

 

[VQTRVA]

I wish Tesla offered more colors on the Model 3. When every other car is a Model 3, like it is around here, it would be nice to see some variety!
Who am I kidding, everyone would just order a shade of gray anyway

Or at least rotate 1 new color in around a core 4-5.

 

[wenkan]

brochure

I used to believe yellow is the color every porsche model should have.

 

[Eno Deb]

It's not clear why someone would even argue that there is anything out there remotely comparable OVERALL to the current Tesla SC network in terms of either convenience/availability or average speed of charge. There are a grand total of two (that's right just 2!) fast charging stations in all of Eastern MA, one of them on the near Cape, the other is well south of Boston proper in Braintree (not easy to get to!).

There are actually three (one near Providence) and several more coming soon. And here's what you see when you include CCS chargers from other networks (yes, many of them are 50kW only, but then quite a few of the superchargers are 72kW urban chargers):

 

[dfwatt]

There are actually three (one near Providence) and several more coming soon. And here's what you see when you include CCS chargers from other networks (yes, many of them are 50kW only, but then quite a few of the superchargers are 72kW urban chargers):


View attachment 451413

In case you're wondering, Providence is actually in Rhode Island which is technically not part of Eastern Massachusetts. As for all those lower-level Chargers, good luck using them when you're on a road trip and trying to get somewhere. Nice try but the data still is against your argument that the networks are comparable. They're not. Move on.

Perhaps they will be more comparable someday. That will be good for everybody, but they are not comparable today.

 

[Eno Deb]

In case you're wondering, Providence is actually in Rhode Island which is technically not part of Eastern Massachusetts. As for all those lower-level Chargers, good luck using them when you're on a road trip and trying to get somewhere. Nice try but the data still is against your argument that the networks are comparable. They're not. Move on.

Can you please quote where I said they are "comparable"? They are not, but then they don't need to be because the demand for CCS chargers is currently still lower. CCS is on the same trajectory that Tesla used. First you create wide geographic coverage to enable the early adopters to make road trips on the most common routes, then you scale up capacity as demand grows.

 

[dfwatt]

Can you please quote where I said they are "comparable"? They are not, but then they don't need to be because the demand for CCS chargers is currently still lower. CCS is on the same trajectory that Tesla used. First you create wide geographic coverage to enable the early adopters to make road trips on the most common routes, then you scale up capacity as demand grows.

Thank you for explaining that principle!! I just had no idea! More seriously, I think you keep moving the goalposts. First you minimize any real advantage that Tesla might have in their SC network, and then re-define what constitutes a viable network (as you do above). Hard to debate anything in that context. Not sure what your overall point might be in all this . . . .

 

[mongo]

I wish Tesla offered more colors on the Model 3. When every other car is a Model 3, like it is around here, it would be nice to see some variety!
Who am I kidding, everyone would just order a shade of gray anyway

Buy the free color and get a vinyl wrap (or dip).

 

[Daniel in SD]

Buy the free color and get a vinyl wrap (or dip).

I might have actually considered that if the free color were pearl white like it is now. I like the red even though red is the most popular color in the office (I think there are 6 in the parking garage).

 

[Scott7]

I see one EA location open in the Boston area so far. Plugshare ratings are mostly filled with complaints on the outrageous pricing and only one complaint on broken hardware this time. Still better than most EA sites I've looked at.

 

[IraB]

Looking back on these posts is such a LOL.

Really? Here is what I said.

Comparing chalk and cheese. Top of the line Taycan is not intended to compete with any version of the M3. It will be priced above the MSP and will outperform it, including having a much nicer interior, maintaining full or near full performance for extended track laps, and handling better. However, from the early reports, the Taycans will not have range anywhere near either Tesla.

Let's break it down.

Not intended to compete with M3, check.

Priced above MSP, check.

Nicer interior, check.

Maintaining full or near full performance for extended track laps (including brakes that won't fade), check.

Range substantially less than Tesla, check.

Outperform the Model S and the Model 3, we will have to wait for (a) magazine tests of acceleration as Porsche has consistently under rated their cars with advertised performance; and (b) Elon's promise to bring a new Model S to the 'ring. If the Model S actually makes it around the ring without going into limp mode AND beats the Taycan's time, I will happily eat my words.

Meanwhile, not sure what has you LOLing.

 

[juanmedina]

Really? Here is what I said.

Comparing chalk and cheese. Top of the line Taycan is not intended to compete with any version of the M3. It will be priced above the MSP and will outperform it, including having a much nicer interior, maintaining full or near full performance for extended track laps, and handling better. However, from the early reports, the Taycans will not have range anywhere near either Tesla.

Let's break it down.

Not intended to compete with M3, check.

Priced above MSP, check.

Nicer interior, check.

Maintaining full or near full performance for extended track laps (including brakes that won't fade), check.

Range substantially less than Tesla, check.

Outperform the Model S and the Model 3, we will have to wait for (a) magazine tests of acceleration as Porsche has consistently under rated their cars with advertised performance; and (b) Elon's promise to bring a new Model S to the 'ring. If the Model S actually makes it around the ring without going into limp mode AND beats the Taycan's time, I will happily eat my words.

Meanwhile, not sure what has you LOLing.

Not a Tesla killer, check.

Anyway. Road and Track is saying that Tesla has not scheduled anytime at the Nurburgring to set a record next week.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Not a Tesla killer, check.

The Model S isn't a Taycan killer either.
The idea that any car could be better than another car in every single way makes no sense.

 

[IraB]

Not a Tesla killer, check.

Anyway. Road and Track is saying that Tesla has not scheduled anytime at the Nurburgring to set a record next week.

Never did I suggest it would be a Tesla killer. That is what "chalk and cheese" means, i.e., that the two items are neither comparable nor is one a substitute for the other.

I'm disappointed that Elon has not yet followed through on his tweet about running an S on the 'ring. Perhaps he discovered that getting a reservation for 'ring time is a bit more involved than sending a text or a tweet ;-)

 

[Daniel in SD]

I'm disappointed that Elon has not yet followed through on his tweet about running an S on the 'ring. Perhaps he discovered that getting a reservation for 'ring time is a bit more involved than sending a text or a tweet ;-)

Seems like a good first step would be to first make the Model S faster than the Model 3 around a local track. I don't think there's any evidence of that happening yet either.

 

[Eno Deb]

Thank you for explaining that principle!! I just had no idea! More seriously, I think you keep moving the goalposts. First you minimize any real advantage that Tesla might have in their SC network, and then re-define what constitutes a viable network (as you do above).

It seems to me that your bias and tribalism makes you read things that aren't there. There is no need to get defensive about charging infrastructure. It will help EVs as a whole, probably including Tesla drivers at some point (assuming Tesla will release a North America version of their CCS adapter).

 

[FlatSix911]

There are actually three (one near Providence) and several more coming soon. And here's what you see when you include CCS chargers from other networks (yes, many of them are 50kW only, but then quite a few of the superchargers are 72kW urban chargers):
View attachment 451413

Buy a $200K car to deal with these sorts of problems charging it? Gee, where do I sign up? Just about every EA location is filled with complaints like these.

Maybe they’ll figure it out eventually but the number of stations metric is seriously misleading at the moment. Very uncommon to have any similar issue at Superchargers!

View attachment 451093