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Taycan Turbo Introduction

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PS. I’m sure Taycan will not have IC or MCU screens with yellow border, like my car...

Well - you can give your P100D to Kars 4 Kids when it has a yellow screen.

You give your replacement P100D as well when the screen yellows.

And then buy a Model 3 performance.

I hope you buy a Taycan. You’d encourage me to sell one of my cars to upgrade to an S just to spite.
 
Seems like a missed opportunity for Porsche. They started working on this car in 2014 and this is the best they can do? The physical demension is nearly identical with less range and less tech from a car that came out in 2013.

All specs aside, Porsche does have excellent build quality but it is 100k better?

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A Porsche Taycan is a flex car that look amazing and drives great but with many compromise in range and tech. Real life range is closer to 200-220 miles with AC plus 80mph driving in California.

I also keep seeing arguments about the car has a better dealership support network. Does anyone think for a second that every dealership is capable of servicing a niche car? I bet you the car will most likely have to be picked up with a tow truck to a specific center to be serviced. It doesn’t make sense for a car that requires a special skill set to be serviced at any location.

Porsche 200-220k for better track performance and interior.

Model S 100k for better range, tech and charging network.

Is the Porsche worth 120k more? That’s something for you to decide.
 
There is one standout figure for me:
the Taycan is 200lbs heavier than an S - and this from a honed Sportscar manufacturer?!
that means your dragging around a passenger's weight more than an S the whole time.
With EVs being heavy anyway the difference as a percentage is reduced, but for sure I didnt expect this and at that level I think in the aspect it is a very poor effort from Porsche.

Beyond that:
Regular trackdays with this as your only vehicle - Taycan
Regular trackdays with this as your main EV but you keep another trackable car - MS P100D
Occasional trackdays - buy an MS P100D + hire something fun for trackdays
Strip - MS P100D
Money no problem, image concious, dont do trips, have a local 300KW charger - Taycan
EVERYONE ELSE - MS P100D

Doesnt seem like Tesla should feel too threatened

Also most importantly of all Porsche have yet to prove that the batteries can stand up to regular fast charging without degradation and have made no comment about reducing max charge rates with age of battery.

What's the value of a Taycan when the battery has lost 20% range at 70000 miles, the peak charge rate has been reduced and with a battery replacement cost iro $40,000?
 
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All things considered, lets be real:
I'll take a Raven P100DL with a screen that comes with a yellow border from the factory over any Model S that came before it.
Yes, I could almost see that, but no, I will not take a new Raven P100DL with possible quality production issues (beyond yellow screen) over a functional, all stuff fixed (including recalls), P85DL I already have. I was extremely close to picking up a Raven P100DL, price was really tempting. I even made a trip to Tesla when picking up my wife's Model S from yellow screen treatment, intending to talk to sales to see if they had an inventory unit they wanted to move before the end of the quarter with some discount. While waiting, I listened to other people's issues, including one guy whose (I think, I didn't get the entire conversation) air conditioning keeps dying but service could not find anything in the logs, or reproduce it, so they were telling the guy next time he brings his car for the same issue and it doesn't happen, they will charge him 2 hrs of labor for diagnostics. Another guy had some random errors on the screen which they couldn't repro either, but he was able to show them pictures he took with his phone, so they knew it happens, but couldn't fix it. Long story short, once I picked up my wife's MS I went straight home, didn't even bother talking to sales about buying one - why pay tens of thousands of dollars and risk having to deal with appointment waits, parts waits, inability to diagnose, etc. All that for a quieter car, with few extra hp, and a biohazard mode (but with MCU2 which controls IC, so when it hangs or reboots both screens are dead). Oh, and given that every single one of the 4 brand new Model S I bought required some service visits to get it right (stupid things like charging errors, or mirrors not unfolding (or folding while driving) - it was annoying enough to have to spend time when service was not overloaded and cutting costs), I am thinking there is a very high chance a new one would need service too to fix production issues.
 
For the price of a Taycan Turbo S, I am going to park my money on the sideline and wait for the SpaceX Edition Roadster. Speed is nice but the technology features of Tesla blow Porsche out of the water.
Taycan has proper phone integration (Apple Carplay, Android Auto, so you can use your phone apps on the big screen)? It also has surround view, HUD, 350KW charging, to name a few. Tesla has phone integration from a decade ago (you can talk via bluetooth and make phone calls, that's it). Which Tesla technology features are you referring to, which blows Porsche out of the water?
 
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Doesnt seem like Tesla should feel too threatened
At the Taycan price point, you are absolutely correct. Had the Taycan Turbo S started at $100K, it would take a large chunk of P100D market.

Also most importantly of all Porsche have yet to prove that the batteries can stand up to regular fast charging without degradation and have made no comment about reducing max charge rates with age of battery.
Unlike Tesla, Porsche doesn't follow agile, i.e. "ship it, let the customers test it out for us". They literally have driven their prototypes millions of miles, testing in different climates and terrains. That is why it took them years. We can't apply a Tesla mind set of "new battery (or any part put into production), who knows how it will hold up" applying it to Porsche - very different design methodologies.

What's the value of a Taycan when the battery has lost 20% range at 70000 miles, the peak charge rate has been reduced and with a battery replacement cost iro $40,000?
Now you're just spreading FUD, making up horror numbers. You could ask the same question about a P100DL, heck add a yellow screen, ludicrous disabled due to to many launches, and dying MCU which keeps hanging (along with instrument cluster) due to excessive flash part wear. Asking such a question doesn't mean that will happen or even that there is significant chance of it happening.
 
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Well - you can give your P100D to Kars 4 Kids when it has a yellow screen.

You give your replacement P100D as well when the screen yellows.
So, what you're suggesting is that to have happy ownership experience with Tesla, avoid the frustration of dealing with service & service, you simply need to treat them as disposable after a year or two. Well, it would probably work, but that imputes a huge cost of ownership for P100D's.
 
The physical demension is nearly identical with less range and less tech from a car that came out in 2013.
Really, what tech are some of you guys talking about here? According to you, what tech features did 2013 Tesla have that the Taycan doesn't. I can name a whole bunch of tech features Taycan has, like phone integration from this decade including any app you can run on your Android or Apple phone you can use on the car screen, surround view, hud, 350KW charging, battery which can handle repeated 0-100mph launches - there is a lot more, go through the build process on porsche website to see.
 
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At the Taycan price point, you are absolutely correct. Had the Taycan Turbo S started at $100K, it would take a large chunk of P100D market.


Unlike Tesla, Porsche doesn't follow agile, i.e. "ship it, let the customers test it out for us". They literally have driven their prototypes millions of miles, testing in different climates and terrains. That is why it took them years. We can't apply a Tesla mind set of "new battery (or any part put into production), who knows how it will hold up" applying it to Porsche - very different design methodologies.


Now you're just spreading FUD, making up horror numbers. You could ask the same question about a P100DL, heck add a yellow screen, ludicrous disabled due to to many launches, and dying MCU which keeps hanging (along with instrument cluster) due to excessive flash part wear. Asking such a question doesn't mean that will happen or even that there is significant chance of it happening.


The Taycan does NOT have HUD OR 350 KW Charging at launch, nor does it have OTA and the actual range will be much closer to 200 than 250 miles with no supercharging. Is the Taycan beautiful on the outside and the interior, yes, but the Porsche technology from 70 years of engineering excellence and racing heritage is lacking bigly. And, if it took them “ years” to get this right coming out with this launch, where is the better battery technology. I love Porsche having owned 4 of their cars and I have owned 3 Tesla’s, but Porsche underperformed/ executed on the technology part with this Taycan. One last thought, all 4 including my current Porsche 911 have been in for service where I have paid plenty to get them fixed. My Tesla’s have required minimal servicing.
 
The Taycan does NOT have HUD OR 350 KW Charging at launch, nor does it have OTA and the actual range will be much closer to 200 than 250 miles with no supercharging. Is the Taycan beautiful on the outside and the interior, yes, but the Porsche technology from 70 years of engineering excellence and racing heritage is lacking bigly. And, if it took them “ years” to get this right coming out with this launch, where is the better battery technology. I love Porsche having owned 4 of their cars and I have owned 3 Tesla’s, but Porsche underperformed/ executed on the technology part with this Taycan. One last thought, all 4 including my current Porsche 911 have been in for service where I have paid plenty to get them fixed. My Tesla’s have required minimal servicing.
My bad about the HUD, I confused it with Night Vision option. As for actual range, my 253mile P85DL does real world range of ~200 miles, and as little as 140 when having some fun cruising through places like Montana, probably even less when temperatures drop under 40F. Taycan will absolutely have less range than P100D, since it is heavier and has a smaller battery. At this point we know very little about Porsche battery technology, however given their design processes, I would tend to believe it would hold up pretty well, the German's like to overengineer things, especially on high priced goods. Of course, only time will tell.

My experience with Porsche was annual maintenance and tires (sometimes more often than annually - I was younger and drove much more spirited than today). Annual service was not much more expensive than Tesla's price for annual services. My Tesla experience has been all new cars need some service when new, to fix production issues (whether quality or some newly designed part which they were perfecting in the field). After the initial service visits, the Tesla's hold up pretty well after that, in my experience (with the exception of the yellowing screen which developed few months in). The older battery (85) seems to have less degradation after 4.5 years than the new one (75) after 1.5 years, but neither has a lot so not a real issue, but interesting that newer Tesla battery tech doesn't hold up as well, at least anecdotally since I don't have any statistically significant data on that.

Edit: Forgot to mention OTA - after 6 years of being a Tesla customer, I hate it. It allows Tesla to sell you a car with unfinished features which sometimes never some, other times eventually come but completely underwhelming. It took months before my wife's first Model S was able to automatically turn on headlights when dark or automatically operate wipers. Then there is another issue with OTA, updates which change how the vehicle operates, whether by thoughtless design or in error, for example auto-unfolding mirror >0mph caused my wife to lose a mirror ($600 out of pocket repair) because the car auto unfolded a mirror in a place where it has never ever done that before (auto unfold was not a feature, even in the very next release it was changed to auto-unfold above some speed threshold to avoid accidents like my wife had). So not a big fan of Tesla OTA - I prefer my car come with all the features I paid for fully functional on delivery day. Don't really want to drive Beta cars anymore. For connected cars though, OTA is needed, but it should be security fixes only, not new features or new UI with less features (like then v9 came out), etc.
 
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I think it's a very beautiful car. It seems to be a lot more refined than the Model S when it comes to style and finish. And I'm convinced it will beat the Tesla in handling and endurance on the track.

However, there are a few things that I find less than ideal:

1. No hatchback. Trunk space is comparable to a Model 3, not a Model S.
2. It is not clear how the UI functions, and what types of over-the-air updates they may provide.
3. They want us to pay extra for a power charge door and 150kW charging. That should be standard in this price class.
4. Reliance on non-Tesla charge infrastructure will be tricky for the next few years.
5. The range is approximately comparable to a 2012 Model S85, not a modern Raven.

Still, I wish Porsche good luck with the Taycan. I think it's a wonderful new option in the EV market, and may provoke Tesla into releasing a next gen Model S in the not-too-distant future.
 
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So, what you're suggesting is that to have happy ownership experience with Tesla, avoid the frustration of dealing with service & service, you simply need to treat them as disposable after a year or two. Well, it would probably work, but that imputes a huge cost of ownership for P100D's.

My point was that if Tesla were to sell you the P100D for 250K tomorrow, they could replace the screen without being deep into negative earnings per share.

150K-250K is a lot of money for an EV in 2020 money.

They should replace yellow screens under warranty whether it’s a 10K car or a 100K car but they simply can’t afford it.

My sentiment is more negative than positive as of late towards Tesla but I try to be as fair as I can.

Part of being fair is recognizing that the Taycan not only cost much more than any Tesla but it’s not even out yet.

Will it have great build quality? Probably, but not a guarantee. You are also paying more and giving up more money in certain areas if you pick the Taycan over the S/X.

Yes, I could almost see that, but no, I will not take a new Raven P100DL with possible quality production issues (beyond yellow screen) over a functional, all stuff fixed (including recalls), P85DL I already have. I was extremely close to picking up a Raven P100DL, price was really tempting. I even made a trip to Tesla when picking up my wife's Model S from yellow screen treatment, intending to talk to sales to see if they had an inventory unit they wanted to move before the end of the quarter with some discount. While waiting, I listened to other people's issues, including one guy whose (I think, I didn't get the entire conversation) air conditioning keeps dying but service could not find anything in the logs, or reproduce it, so they were telling the guy next time he brings his car for the same issue and it doesn't happen, they will charge him 2 hrs of labor for diagnostics. Another guy had some random errors on the screen which they couldn't repro either, but he was able to show them pictures he took with his phone, so they knew it happens, but couldn't fix it. Long story short, once I picked up my wife's MS I went straight home, didn't even bother talking to sales about buying one - why pay tens of thousands of dollars and risk having to deal with appointment waits, parts waits, inability to diagnose, etc. All that for a quieter car, with few extra hp, and a biohazard mode (but with MCU2 which controls IC, so when it hangs or reboots both screens are dead). Oh, and given that every single one of the 4 brand new Model S I bought required some service visits to get it right (stupid things like charging errors, or mirrors not unfolding (or folding while driving) - it was annoying enough to have to spend time when service was not overloaded and cutting costs), I am thinking there is a very high chance a new one would need service too to fix production issues.

For sure you didn’t see me at the service center that day. Reason why we didn’t run into each other is because I’m not having any issues. With 3 cars, I should be guaranteed to have one in the shop at all times with the amount of problems Tesla’s appear to have.

I had an Audi Q5 that was developing transmission problems while under the warranty period. I took it to 3 dealers and none of them could figure it out - I even had video evidence of the transmission slipping while driving.

I absolutely dumped it ASAP while I still could.

I don’t have hard data but it sure feels like Tesla’s are more challenging than other cars to own.

But they are fun though when I don’t have problems which is really 99 percent of the time. I’m willing to put up with a little crazy to get a lot of hot.

The AC guy should be able to reproduce the issue with a phone camera.

Screen guy I don’t know why he doesn’t leave the car and they do PC 1A. Swap cables and find problems via elimination.

You already have a nice car in the P85L but I’m sure the Raven is pretty slick if you drove one.
 
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Much less distracting?!?!?

You did see those tiny screen buttons....right?
Yes, but there are more controls on the steering wheel, which allow the driver to switch between different functions, like switching between driving modes i.e., without looking away. Besides, those "tiny buttons" not smaller than ours.