I'm a writer-editor with IIHS (the Top Safety Pick guys). I'm writing an article about how owners feel about the usefulness of driving assistance features ranging from blind-spot monitoring to partially automated driving systems like Autopilot for teenagers. What do you think? A good backstop for safety? A crutch that could encourage bad habits (lack of attention)? I'm interested in any and all opinions.
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Teenagers and automated driving
- Thread starter joverdorf
- Start date
DanCar
Active Member
Suspect teenagers will be the first to abuse autopilot. Go to sleep, play on the phone, jump in the back seat, etc...
jlv1
Twice as much fun
I'm glad I was able to teach my kids to drive on cars without any assistance systems (7 to 15 years ago, before our first EV). It made them learn to not depend upon a rear camera or lane keeping, and IMHO made them all better drivers. Our belief is that the purpose of "learning to drive" is as much possible driving time to get experience. Having automation helping doesn't give you the right experience. At the time, I remember my two older children hating to drive with me since my car had a manual transmission. Years later they both thanked me (and fought over who got that car).
In order to pass the road test here in Massachusetts, you need to be able to back up straight for 50 feet. If you get used to using a backup camera, you'll never pass that since the officer giving the test makes you look over your shoulder.
In order to pass the road test here in Massachusetts, you need to be able to back up straight for 50 feet. If you get used to using a backup camera, you'll never pass that since the officer giving the test makes you look over your shoulder.
68882
Member
Years back a elderly driver I know told me he bought a Benz with all the features as argumentation to his 70 years of driving because it could reduce the probability of an accident, and if he had one the licensing people likely would terminate his right to drive. Tesla collects data that shows this assumption of emergency overrides is correct.
As for autosteer it behaves at times like a twelve year old. Still gaining trust with it.
I think for new drivers it is likely playing a video game, monitor and be prepared to have a missile lobbed at you. If the system was perfect then the other guy would never win, but that is not reality.
Reality is doing manual lane keeping/changing, understanding of car lengths, yes and understanding weather conditions. If you don’t have those skills how can you judge when the software is about to fail?
As for autosteer it behaves at times like a twelve year old. Still gaining trust with it.
I think for new drivers it is likely playing a video game, monitor and be prepared to have a missile lobbed at you. If the system was perfect then the other guy would never win, but that is not reality.
Reality is doing manual lane keeping/changing, understanding of car lengths, yes and understanding weather conditions. If you don’t have those skills how can you judge when the software is about to fail?
mikes_fsd
Banned
My goal is for my kids to not have to worry about driving (oldest is 10), unless they want to learn how to drive as a hobby... like riding horses.
Right now this is a big part of our society, but just like with horses, I think it will become unnecessary unless you have a hobby or sport that requires it.
My daughter is on her learner's permit now but I'm having her learn to drive on my previous car: a Honda Accord hybrid. It's not so much as I don't want her driving my model 3 and using Autopilot as much as I'd rather have her learn on a car with closer to standard braking. The Honda does have regenerative braking but it is light compared to the Tesla and you still have to use the brake in most situations.
COS Blue
Member
Using Autopilot in a Tesla makes you less safe. Search the forum for "phantom braking" -- that is my main concern (technically that is not part of Autopilot, it's part of Traffic-Aware Cruise Control which in my mind is a subset of Autopilot). The system will slam on the brakes when it thinks there's an obstacle in front of you, and it is really bad at deciding what is an obstacle. Shadows on the road, cars in the lane next to you that are driving perfectly fine, berms on the side of a curved road -- these are things that have caused my car (2021 Model S) to slam on the brakes, including while driving on the interstate at 75 mph (shadow of an overpass). When I have TACC turned on, I have to cover the accelerator with my foot, so that if it brakes unexpectedly I can hit the gas to stop it in the act. That is the opposite of what you should be doing, you should be covering the brake in case you need to stop. It's really embarrassingly bad.
The problem is particularly bad with Teslas -- most cars do a much better job from what I understand. Maybe if Tesla used LIDAR instead of cameras...
Autopilot does encourage a lack of attention. Driving around town I have gone straight over potholes that I would have simply steered around. I don't think it would do well if a deer jumped in front of you. I trust my reaction time better than the system's (I have had near-misses w/o AP where I manually swerved to avoid animals). More evidence that its reaction time is poor: several times a car has turned in front of me, but plenty far ahead that it wasn't a problem. After the car has already cleared my lane, the car slams on the brakes!
As for Full Self Driving, I would never trust it based on what I have have seen and read. I realize it's a "beta" or whatever, but if you don't watch it like a hawk it will drive you into a curb or a parked car or something. Plenty of YouTube videos showing things like that. (I do not, and will not have that on my car).
So, if I had a teenage driver in my family I would instruct her to never rely on stuff like that, and to assume that using it is more dangerous than not using it.
The problem is particularly bad with Teslas -- most cars do a much better job from what I understand. Maybe if Tesla used LIDAR instead of cameras...
Autopilot does encourage a lack of attention. Driving around town I have gone straight over potholes that I would have simply steered around. I don't think it would do well if a deer jumped in front of you. I trust my reaction time better than the system's (I have had near-misses w/o AP where I manually swerved to avoid animals). More evidence that its reaction time is poor: several times a car has turned in front of me, but plenty far ahead that it wasn't a problem. After the car has already cleared my lane, the car slams on the brakes!
As for Full Self Driving, I would never trust it based on what I have have seen and read. I realize it's a "beta" or whatever, but if you don't watch it like a hawk it will drive you into a curb or a parked car or something. Plenty of YouTube videos showing things like that. (I do not, and will not have that on my car).
So, if I had a teenage driver in my family I would instruct her to never rely on stuff like that, and to assume that using it is more dangerous than not using it.
beatle
Active Member
As 2101Guy also said, if you're using it and paying attention, AP is great for taking the stress out of longer highway trips and stop and go traffic, but it's not something anyone can really rely on, and that's how it's supposed to be used. I don't get the fascination with a FSD implementation that you can't legally trust to drive you around while you browse your phone, eat, or have a face to face conversation with your (fellow) passengers. Once you can legally check out, I think it'll be worth a premium to many.
Tiger
Active Member
Please don’t write an article based on opinnions, everyone hass one. Instead, find a way to get factual data, ask Musk, for example. Find a way (arrange if needs be) to get actual data about the topic you are writing, and make scientific analysis from it.
If you still want to go with people’s opinnions, just make it up, there is no way to verify that approach.
If you still want to go with people’s opinnions, just make it up, there is no way to verify that approach.
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