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Tegra temps, hastening the life of the MCU in older Model S'

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by demundus, Oct 31, 2017.

  1. demundus

    demundus Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,097
    Location:
    Oceanside, CA
    For those of you who have access to root, or the ability to query your CID, OR next time you are in for service and ask to see the Tegra CPU/Board temp for yourself.... would you please add to this thread:

    Your board temp (tegra)
    Your CPU temp (tegra)
    Drive time, or MCU alive time
    Ambient temp outside
    Ambient temp in cabin
    Your build date
    (optional) Your MCU date, if replaced.


    The speculation is that older Model S's, pre 2015, run much hotter on the tegra than newer ones. This is yet another design issue that will cause these MCUs to fail early and often, in addition to other design issues that make replacing parts within the MCU already very difficult (a soapbox for another time)

    Thanks!
     
    • Like x 2
  2. verygreen

    verygreen Curious member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,361
    Location:
    TN
    Those who don't have root on CID, but have access to IC, run these two commands on the IC to know the cid temp:
    Code:
    /usr/local/bin/get-local-dv CenterDisplay GUI_cdProcTemp
    /usr/local/bin/get-local-dv CenterDisplay GUI_cdBoardTemp
    
    also for the root users, grep /var/log/syslog.* for "tempmon" to see back history of the temps going back ~1 week.
    run /usr/local/bin/tmon to see current values

    My Q1 2017 MX is always hanging around 42,35 when used, 44 is the biggest I saw, my 2014 bench is at 63,51in a cool basement. (all values are Celsius).
     
    • Informative x 4
    • Helpful x 1
    • Like x 1
  3. demundus

    demundus Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,097
    Location:
    Oceanside, CA
    Today I logged:

    76c CPU
    63c Board
    MCU from a 2014 salvage
    2013 build year
    68F outside
    68F inside
    Drive time was 35 mins
     
  4. lowrider

    lowrider Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    California
    Garaged vehicle. Ambient 65 F. Vehicle was sleeping until 09:33 when it woke to perform a regular 12 V maintenance cycle.

    2015 MCU. All energy saving modes enabled/always connected off.

    2017-11-03T06:25:58.287384-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=47 board=38
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    2017-11-03T10:07:07.990247-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=57 board=47
    2017-11-03T10:08:09.150279-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=57 board=47
    2017-11-03T10:09:10.304460-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=57 board=47
    2017-11-03T10:10:11.469912-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=57 board=47
    2017-11-03T10:11:12.622328-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=57 board=47
    2017-11-03T10:12:13.807190-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=57 board=47
    2017-11-03T10:13:14.992093-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=57 board=47
    2017-11-03T10:14:16.176960-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=47
    2017-11-03T10:15:17.335708-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=47
    2017-11-03T10:16:18.503570-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=47
    2017-11-03T10:17:19.662753-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:18:20.854311-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:19:22.033353-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:20:23.260814-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:21:24.433534-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:22:25.593651-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:23:26.794235-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:24:27.981997-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:25:29.152932-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:26:30.327930-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:27:31.480825-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:28:32.665708-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:29:33.804359-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:30:34.991477-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:31:36.155892-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:32:37.295298-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:33:38.465091-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
    2017-11-03T10:34:39.624923-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=48
     
  5. demundus

    demundus Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,097
    Location:
    Oceanside, CA
    Interesting, seems like 2017 cars operate even LOWER than 2015s, there must be a mid range as well...
     
  6. verygreen

    verygreen Curious member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,361
    Location:
    TN
    So I guess here's the hard data form mine. at 11:50 I had a bit of a drive around and you can see corresponding rise in temperatures.

    Code:
    2017-11-03T11:36:28.228374-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=37 board=32
    2017-11-03T11:37:29.391937-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=37 board=32
    2017-11-03T11:38:30.605376-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=38 board=32
    2017-11-03T11:39:31.769004-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=37 board=32
    2017-11-03T11:40:32.947286-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=37 board=32
    2017-11-03T11:41:34.117030-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=38 board=32
    2017-11-03T11:42:35.277933-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=37 board=32
    2017-11-03T11:43:36.450003-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=37 board=32
    2017-11-03T11:44:37.607047-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=37 board=32
    2017-11-03T11:45:38.790909-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=37 board=32
    2017-11-03T11:46:39.954750-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=37 board=32
    2017-11-03T11:47:41.121427-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=37 board=32
    2017-11-03T11:48:42.221384-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=37 board=32
    2017-11-03T11:49:43.378283-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=37 board=32
    2017-11-03T11:50:44.609819-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=38 board=32
    2017-11-03T11:51:45.968905-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=38 board=33
    2017-11-03T11:52:47.327960-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=39 board=33
    2017-11-03T11:53:48.677343-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=39 board=34
    2017-11-03T11:54:49.925208-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=40 board=34
    2017-11-03T11:55:51.197461-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=40 board=35
    2017-11-03T11:56:52.548673-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=40 board=35
    2017-11-03T11:57:53.779599-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=41 board=36
    2017-11-03T11:58:55.034766-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=41 board=36
    2017-11-03T11:59:56.247561-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=41 board=37
    2017-11-03T12:00:57.472676-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=41 board=37
    2017-11-03T12:01:58.646560-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=41 board=37
    2017-11-03T12:02:59.834096-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=41 board=37
    2017-11-03T12:04:01.030292-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=41 board=37
    2017-11-03T12:05:02.209724-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=37
    2017-11-03T12:06:03.417257-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=37
    2017-11-03T12:07:04.606037-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:08:05.785602-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:09:06.973846-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:10:08.163341-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:11:09.342768-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:12:10.543216-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:13:11.746245-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:14:12.990513-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:15:14.245934-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=44 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:16:15.492381-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=44 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:17:16.730882-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:18:18.003695-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=44 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:19:19.259262-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:20:20.503498-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:21:21.804258-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=44 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:22:23.059789-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:23:24.270081-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:24:25.458474-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:25:26.640700-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:26:27.832844-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:27:29.066923-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:28:30.260367-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:29:31.456588-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:30:32.670771-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:31:33.981944-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:32:35.294905-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=41 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:33:36.578447-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=40 board=37
    2017-11-03T12:34:37.883993-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=40 board=37
    2017-11-03T12:35:39.091120-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=41 board=37
    2017-11-03T12:36:40.271418-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=41 board=37
    2017-11-03T12:37:41.459794-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=37
    2017-11-03T12:38:42.657409-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:39:43.844600-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:40:45.050452-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:41:46.246409-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:42:47.440419-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:43:48.618601-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:44:49.833099-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:45:51.033457-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:46:52.217797-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=38
    2017-11-03T12:47:53.402129-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=39
    2017-11-03T12:48:54.616675-07:00 cid tempmon: tegra=43 board=39
    
     
  7. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    4,986
    Location:
    So Cal
    Do we actually know what the specifications are as far as operating temperature for the components on the Tegra board? I agree that 60 C seems hot, but could it be that Tesla is using automotive grade electronics that are designed to withstand these temps?
     
    • Like x 1
  8. verygreen

    verygreen Curious member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,361
    Location:
    TN
    nand flash definitely does not like elevated temps.
     
  9. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    4,986
    Location:
    So Cal
    Ok. And do we have any idea what changed to enable the Tegra to run cooler? A better heatsink? A bigger fan?
     
  10. demundus

    demundus Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,097
    Location:
    Oceanside, CA
    Its a video card at its core so.... probably both or either? I'm be curious to the hardware differences of @verygreen vs me for example.
     
  11. verygreen

    verygreen Curious member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,361
    Location:
    TN
    BTW this is my bench, situated in a cool basement (~68F, 20C), made sometime in 2014:

    Code:
    Oct 30 17:05:08 cid tempmon: tegra=30 board=22
    Oct 30 17:06:09 cid tempmon: tegra=33 board=25
    Oct 30 17:07:13 cid tempmon: tegra=35 board=27
    Oct 30 17:08:14 cid tempmon: tegra=38 board=29
    Oct 30 17:09:15 cid tempmon: tegra=40 board=31
    Oct 30 17:10:16 cid tempmon: tegra=42 board=33
    Oct 30 17:11:17 cid tempmon: tegra=44 board=34
    Oct 30 17:12:19 cid tempmon: tegra=46 board=36
    Oct 30 17:14:21 cid tempmon: tegra=49 board=38
    Oct 30 17:15:22 cid tempmon: tegra=50 board=39
    Oct 30 17:16:23 cid tempmon: tegra=51 board=40
    Oct 30 17:17:24 cid tempmon: tegra=52 board=41
    Oct 30 17:18:25 cid tempmon: tegra=53 board=42
    Oct 30 17:19:26 cid tempmon: tegra=54 board=43
    Oct 30 17:20:27 cid tempmon: tegra=55 board=43
    Oct 30 17:21:29 cid tempmon: tegra=56 board=44
    Oct 30 17:22:30 cid tempmon: tegra=56 board=45
    Oct 30 17:23:31 cid tempmon: tegra=57 board=45
    Oct 30 17:24:32 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=46
    Oct 30 17:25:33 cid tempmon: tegra=58 board=46
    Oct 30 17:26:34 cid tempmon: tegra=59 board=47
    Oct 30 17:27:35 cid tempmon: tegra=59 board=47
    Oct 30 17:28:36 cid tempmon: tegra=59 board=47
    Oct 30 17:29:37 cid tempmon: tegra=60 board=48
    Oct 30 17:30:39 cid tempmon: tegra=60 board=48
    Oct 30 17:31:40 cid tempmon: tegra=60 board=48
    Oct 30 17:32:41 cid tempmon: tegra=61 board=48
    Oct 30 17:33:42 cid tempmon: tegra=61 board=49
    Oct 30 17:34:43 cid tempmon: tegra=61 board=49
    Oct 30 17:35:44 cid tempmon: tegra=61 board=49
    Oct 30 17:36:45 cid tempmon: tegra=61 board=49
    Oct 30 17:37:46 cid tempmon: tegra=62 board=49
    Oct 30 17:38:47 cid tempmon: tegra=62 board=49
    Oct 30 17:39:48 cid tempmon: tegra=62 board=50
    Oct 30 17:40:50 cid tempmon: tegra=62 board=50
    Oct 30 17:41:51 cid tempmon: tegra=62 board=50
    Oct 30 17:42:52 cid tempmon: tegra=62 board=50
    Oct 30 17:43:53 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=50
    Oct 30 17:44:54 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=50
    Oct 30 17:45:55 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=50
    Oct 30 17:46:56 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=50
    Oct 30 17:47:57 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=50
    Oct 30 17:48:58 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=50
    Oct 30 17:50:00 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=50
    Oct 30 17:51:01 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=50
    Oct 30 17:52:02 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=50
    Oct 30 17:53:03 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=51
    Oct 30 17:54:04 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=51
    Oct 30 17:55:05 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=51
    Oct 30 17:56:06 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=51
    Oct 30 17:57:07 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=51
    Oct 30 17:58:08 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=51
    Oct 30 17:59:09 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=51
    Oct 30 18:00:11 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=51
    Oct 30 18:01:12 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=51
    Oct 30 18:02:13 cid tempmon: tegra=64 board=51
    Oct 30 18:03:14 cid tempmon: tegra=64 board=51
    Oct 30 18:04:15 cid tempmon: tegra=64 board=51
    Oct 30 18:05:16 cid tempmon: tegra=64 board=51
    Oct 30 18:06:17 cid tempmon: tegra=64 board=51
    Oct 30 18:07:18 cid tempmon: tegra=63 board=51
    Oct 30 18:08:19 cid tempmon: tegra=64 board=51
    
    afterwards it stays pretty much there.

    Since I am absolutely not taking my car apart (at this point, anyway), I cannot really compare my bench to in-car cid.

    The other difference is my bench is on 7.1 firmware, since I did not see a compelling reason to upgrade it any further
     
    • Informative x 1
  12. tedsk

    tedsk Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    99
    Location:
    NC
    From eMMC manufacturer specifications its operating temperature range is: -40℃ ~ 85℃. But it is also known that all silicon chips suffer from elevated temperatures and it definitely shortens chip lifespan. Thus operating very close to the upper bound of specification is a death caller for flash. Above 85C it will simply die very fast.

    My bench Tegra's heatsink is so hot that I barely can keep my fingers on it. I've never seen a CPU with proper heatsink running that hot.
    Also fan on my CID's Tegra never turns on. It was me who first noticed that and later Demundus started to monitor his Tegra being concerned that heatsink may have been improperly installed.

    If it is indeed a physical design failure that prevents fan from turning on then it is very bad. Heatsink is wrapped into air duct which effectively blocks natural airflow (via convection) through the heatsink when fan is not running.

    To remediate this issue I would suggest either of two things:
    - Remove air duct around heatsink (and fan casing) since it is useless and makes things worse
    - Give proper power to the fan so it will be constantly running pulling air through the heatsink.
     
    • Informative x 1
  13. widodh

    widodh Model S 85 and 100D

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    6,319
    Location:
    Middelburg / Venlo, NL
    Ok, I have a September 2013 Model S and like to chime in, but how do I get access? I work as a daily Linux sysadmin, so the CLI is no problem.

    But running with v8.1 is there a easy way to get in? Any links with information on how to achieve this?
     
  14. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    4,986
    Location:
    So Cal
    I find it difficult to believe that for 3 years Tesla designed the cars with a design defect that prevented the MCU fans from operating correctly. Having said that, I rarely hear the MCU fans spin up in mine. I suspect that Tesla could change this via firmware to run the fans more often.
     
  15. BigD0g

    BigD0g Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,856
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Could be they had other fish to fry, since they aren't failing that often unlike say the door handles, so maybe they didn't even worry about it. Another good example, i've had my car for roughly 10 months now, i'm on my 3rd charge port :eek:
     
  16. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    4,986
    Location:
    So Cal
    I could believe that if the MCU stayed on revision A for 3 years. But when I had mine swapped in late 2015 I had a revision M put in. So clearly they were actively making design decisions that affected the MCU.
     
    • Informative x 1
  17. demundus

    demundus Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,097
    Location:
    Oceanside, CA
    Funny enough, I removed the duct when I re-installed because I questioned its efficacy, design wise it made no sense.

    Is there an always on setting in the OS somewhere I can set to read only for the fan?
     
  18. verygreen

    verygreen Curious member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,361
    Location:
    TN
    If you do not have root, you need to get onto the in-car network ( Successful connection on the Model S internal Ethernet network )
    You won't get the history, but you can impersonate IC and see the current CID temps via GUI_cdProcTemp and GUI_cdBoardTemp variables
     
  19. widodh

    widodh Model S 85 and 100D

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    6,319
    Location:
    Middelburg / Venlo, NL
    That 4 pin connector no longer works, does it? Afaik I need to remove the MCU.
     
  20. verygreen

    verygreen Curious member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,361
    Location:
    TN
    You need to remove the IC and plug there, but the connector is the same.
     

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