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TeleforceOne Perpetual Motion

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by TeleforceONE, Oct 11, 2014.

  1. TeleforceONE

    TeleforceONE Banned

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    ICEs are ice cold; and, getting colder

    Hello all:

    I am an inventor and an environmentalist and having to use ICE (internal combustion engine) mobiles to get around just never did set with me well.

    I recently had to drop (sell off) my two gas guzzling ICE trucks, both 2011's. The cost of fuel (gasoline) alone, for each, starting exceeded the monthly payments, by far. The costs of insurance, maintenance, and registration, kept going up, too. I didn't shed a tear. I always knew that day would come. I remember when I first went to college at Mt. SAC, in Walnut California, back in '72', only paying 75 cents to fill up my motorcycle, once or twice a week. I bought that Yamaha 250 for only $300 used.

    The most amazing thing about Tesla Motors (to me) is that it exist, at all. All my life people kept telling me not to waste my time inventing that thing because the oil and automobile companies won't allow it. Even today, as I am inventing that thing, I am still being told not to; and, for the same reason. They say; "No one will buy it from you or invest in it's development because the oil and automobile companies won't allow anyone to buy it from you or invest in it's development." For the longest time, I believed them but, now, I am beginning to think otherwise.

    Tesla Motors is my inspiration. I don't think I would have wasted my time inventing that thing had it not been for Tesla Motors.

    Thanks,

    Dan
     
  2. Bardlebee

    Bardlebee Member

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    Don't listen to others who want squash your passion. Everyone told me not to waste my 20's going to school and work full time. Everyone told me not to waste my money on a Model S when I got lucky enough to afford one, due to me "wasting" my time in school and work. They said the same thing about Tesla's stock "Don't waste your time, you are going to lose all your money"... well that stock got me the car.

    Follow your passion, let the haters hate. Love what you love.
     
  3. TeleforceONE

    TeleforceONE Banned

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    Dual Carbon Battery Pack?

    After CEO Dou Kani's (Power Japan Plus') press release of their dual-carbon battery pack on May 13, 2014, I haven't heard much else about it from them. Daniel Sparks (The Motley Fool), on May 18th, mentioned that, if Power Japan Plus' assertions were true, Tesla's Gigafactory would become obsolete even before it was built. The issue became a leading topic at the annual shareholders meeting on June 5th; so sayeth Daniel Sparks. CEO Elon Musk is reported to have claimed that the new Gigafactory could easily be retooled to accommodate the change in anode/cathode composition and that they had already planned for it.

    Even more profound was CEO Elon Musk's revelation that Tesla Motors R&D had their own batteries of comparable energy density and cost per unit of energy to that of Power Japan Plus' in the works.

    Such innovations should bring that cumbersome lithium battery pack, Tesla Motors currently employs, down from 900+ pounds to around a 150+ pounds. There is still that huge limitation on range, though; roughly 300 miles per recharge.

    Some have suggested that Charles Flynn's generator (50 to 75 pounds) might do the job, in the foreseeable future (15 to 25 years). See, US Patent #6246561, June 12, 2001. There's no one telling how long Flynn's generator would last but, given the development of wind turbines, it's not a stretch to expect one (eventually) to last 20 or even 25 years.

    Imagine a Tesla Motors' car that doesn't have to recharge. I do! Now, that would bring the cost of a Tesla Motors car down to the average, or even less than average, Jane or John Doe.

    I wonder if CEO Elon Musk is aware of Flynn's generator. On second thought, given his pension for staying on top of innovation, I'm sure he is.

    Yours,

    Dan
     
  4. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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  5. tom66

    tom66 Member

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    My guess is that the dual carbon battery does not exist, at least not in any practical form.

    They are probably either seeking investment funds or a research grant. Big PR campaigns like they did a few months ago are a good way to achieve this.
     
  6. TeleforceONE

    TeleforceONE Banned

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    Volkswagen, like a lot of other auto manufacturers, are jumped on board the bandwagon that Elon Musk started back up, again. Now, they readily admit that PHEVs and Fuel Cell vehicles are nothing but a patch; a bridge. They are all bringing out their versions of EVs.

    So, you may ask, in light of all these new EVs coming out on the market; how is Tesla Motors going to stay ahead of the competition?

    Like Elon Musk said; innovate faster than your competitors. Patents are just depth charges; good for nothing but lining attorneys pockets.

    And, how does Tesla Motors expect to innovate faster than their competitors in the EV market?

    Smash the 300 mile recharge limitation range and significantly reduce the weight of the onboard generation of electricity, of course.

    And, how does Tesla Motors intend to do that?

    Elon Musk is NOT saying but, my guess is that he intends to bring out the first, most reliable, most efficient, most productive, and lightest, permanent magnet generator, before any other competitor does.

    Yours,

    Dan









    Dr Heinz-Jakob Neusser, Volkswagen board member and head of Group powertrain development, recently told CarAdvice that the future for green vehicles remained EV, and that PHEVs and fuel-cell vehicles were essentially a patch.
    “This [PHEV] is completely a bridging technology. We have two bridging technologies, on one hand is a plug-in hybrid technology and the other one is fuel cells, because both enlarge your operating range of the car when you have no recharging system available,” Neusser said.
     
  7. TeleforceONE

    TeleforceONE Banned

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    Permanent Magnet Generator - EV?

    Someone said that the innovations to be had, in the near future, are in the development of a better battery pack.

    Even a more efficient and lighter weight battery pack would still suffer from the same limitations, though. Now, they weight 900+ pounds and only go about 300 miles, at best, on a recharge that just seems to take forever. You can only recharge up at the few stations that are available, and those recharge stations are only going to be available in the larger cities. Recharging isn't free, either; whether you pay up front or as you go, it ain't free. Someone has to pay for the installation, upkeep, and replacement, of all those expensive solar cell recharging stations. Those battery packs are really expensive to replace, too. Worse, they really don't have any real cargo carrying capacity.

    I heard that some auto manufacturers were developing permanent magnet generators (PMGs), like Charles Flynn's 2001 patented one, to replace battery packs. PMGs weigh a fraction of battery packs, wouldn't require recharging at all, and are expected to last the life of the EV. That would certainly solve the security risk of having to frequent the few solar cell recharging stations what to speak of having to pay for all that infrastructure.

    Is Tesla Motors developing a PMG-EV? If so, when do they plan to come out with it?

    Dan
     
  8. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Umm. A permanent magnet generator is a type of generator - a device for converting rotational motion into electricity. For it to replace a battery pack, you'd need some sort of constant source of rotary motion.

    It's not going to happen, and someone is selling you FUD.
    Walter
     
  9. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    No, they're not. You can't get energy from a permanent magnet generator. (Neither the Charles Flynn design or the MEG).

    HINT: If a device is easy enough for a 2-year old to build, and nobody has ever successfully built one, it's not real.


    Right after they come out with the Model U - powered by a Unicorn that runs on a disc that's balanced on the back of 4 elephants which, in turn, stand on the back of a giant turtle...
     
  10. cdub

    cdub Future Model 3 owner

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    A "PMG" sounds eerily like my understanding of "physics" as an 8 year old. I remember thinking that it was the "heat" from jet engines that caused them to go.. so I used to design "engines" that used "heat bars" ala ovens.

    I even designed my own speeder bikes ala ROTJ and I would talk up my designs on the back of the school bus.

    A PMG is just another design from someone with an 8 year old's understanding of physics. If this could have been done it would have been done a HUNDRED YEARS AGO.
     
  11. TeleforceONE

    TeleforceONE Banned

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    Charles Flynn's PMG patent is US Patent #6246561, June 12, 2001. Last I looked, it is still valid. You or anyone else can challenge it's validity in a court of law but, until then (until it is overturned by a Judge as being invalid), I will continue to cite it. In other words, I don't have to prove that Flynn's patent is valid to cite it.

    I don't have anything to do with Flynn or the USPTO and never did. Nor do I have any arrangements with either for any future business. I have never spoken to either.

    It just seems to me that the Flynn PMG could replace a battery pack. If Tesla Motors doesn't want to consider it, or any other patented PMGs, at all, that would make me wonder. I have never known anyone in this business, what to speak of someone like Elon Musk, of rejecting, out of hand, sight unseen, a valid US patent; especially one with actual prototypes.

    I suspect that other automakers are considering patented PMGs.

    Dan
     
  12. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    #12 Johan, Oct 13, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
    Permanent Magnet Generator - EV?

    I truly believe this could be done! I have only one question: how many alternators are needed???

    (alternators)
     
  13. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    It's a perfectly valid patent. It says nothing about replacing batteries, or even generating power. It's about making more efficient motors and linear actuators, which is certainly a good thing - but it in no way will make batteries obsolete.
    Walter
     
  14. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    The patent office isn't in the business of deciding if a particular tech actually works, only if others are allowed to copy it.
     
  15. tga

    tga Active Member

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    Except for perpetual motion machines, time machines, and other frivolous patents on devices generally accepted to be impossible. These require working demos to be considered. Sometimes they sneak past the inspectors, but they are pretty good at catching them.

    Therefore:

    Patent #6246561 is not related to perpetual motion machines, and is being misunderstood by the OP, OR
    Patent #6246561 is a thinly-veiled perpetual motion patent, and therefore invalid.

    With a quick glance at the patent, it appears to be #1. An electrical input to effect, divert, or change a permanent magnet's field would take more energy input than the generator would produce. QED.

    And even with such an impossible device to power the car, you'd still need batteries to handle the high power for acceleration. The "over unity" device probably couldn't generate 320kW on demand.
     
  16. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Dan: can you please shed some light on your line of thought on how this contraption would be able to replace a battery? This device you are proposing to replace the battery is a generator: it turns kinetic energy in to electric energy. Where will the kinetic energy come from? (Hint: don't answer "from the car as it's driving").
     
  17. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #17 TEG, Oct 13, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
  18. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Your second link pointed me to a very fascinating forum where many of the posters seem in one way highly intelligent and eloquent but on the other hand insane. Really. Insane as in suffering from Schizophrenia or related disorders.
     
  19. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    No... Tesla WILL NOT have a PMG-EV; Why? Elon believes it is wrong to violate the laws of physics.

    And by 'Wrong' I mean Impossible.
     
  20. TeleforceONE

    TeleforceONE Banned

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    Flynn's patents are not mine. I do not have his prototypes or bench demonstrations. I wouldn't even try to explain Flynn's work without those things or without Flynn's permission, which I don't have.

    I just wanted to know whether Elon Musk reviewed Flynn's work.

    If he had; I'd ask what he thought of it? If he didn't; I'd ask why not? I'd be surprised to hear that from Elon Musk for I've heard that some of the other major automakers are reviewing Flynn's work.

    I don't see how asking these questions obligates me to having to show or explain Flynn's work.

    Where, on this site, does it say that you have to be a renouned physicist to ask such questions?

    Dan
     

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