TeleforceOne Perpetual Motion

[tga]

Same topic (by same poster?) previously discussed here? :
My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Permanent Magnet Generator EVs?

My money's on same poster. Also signs his posts Dan, and takes the same antagonistic, flawed logic approach of "I don't have to prove his patent is valid to cite it, you have to prove it's invalid in court of law to stop me". *Psst* - hint: courts of law don't preside over "laws of physics" - they handle a different kind of law! :wink:

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Your second link pointed me to a very fascinating forum where many of the posters seem in one way highly intelligent and eloquent but on the other hand insane. Really. Insane as in suffering from Schizophrenia or related disorders.

Part of me misses the day when the Internet was only available academics, scientists, and students. The signal-to-noise ratio was much better when the crackpots were largely kept out.

 

[woof]

Part of me misses the day when the Internet was only available academics, scientists, and students. The signal-to-noise ratio was much better when the crackpots were largely kept out.

Hmm, guess you missed out USNET's alt.* sections! Just because one had an .edu address, doesn't mean one wasn't a crackpot!

 

[deonb]

Flynn's patents are not mine. I do not have his prototypes or bench demonstrations. I wouldn't even try to explain Flynn's work without those things or without Flynn's permission, which I don't have.

I just wanted to know whether Elon Musk reviewed Flynn's work.

If he had; I'd ask what he thought of it? If he didn't; I'd ask why not? I'd be surprised to hear that from Elon Musk for I've heard that some of the other major automakers are reviewing Flynn's work.

Ok, so physics doesn't appeal to you. Let's try logic.

If the PMG worked, Charles Flynn can call up Tesla tomorrow, say: "Hey, I hold a patent to reduce your battery requirements by 90% - you can have it for $5000 royalties per car" - and it will be the fastest multi-billion dollar deal ever struck since Tesla knows this would make them the number 1 auto manufacturer in the world within 2 years.

Charles isn't doing that. Why? Maybe you can contend that Charles isn't interested in money... in which case why file a patent?

 

[bonnie]

Hmm, guess you missed out USNET's alt.* sections! Just because one had an .edu address, doesn't mean one wasn't a crackpot!

But it was contained.

 

[TeleforceONE]

I was driving down the road the the other day, with my 8 year old daughter sitting next to me, when she asked if she could turn on the radio. I said; it won't work for you unless you know exactly how it works. She giggled, while she reached to turn it on, and said; that's just silly. While we sat there driving down the road enjoying listening to the music together, I realized that billions of people listen to music everyday on their radios but have no clue as to how they work.

If Elon Musk doesn't want to turn Flynn's PMG on to see if it will power Tesla Motors' EVs, without knowing exactly how it works; that's just silly.

Elon Musk doesn't have to know how Flynn's PMG works to turn it on or to see if it works or even to manufacture it.

Dan

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I expect this is all a waste of time, but:

http://free-energy-info.com/Chapter3.pdf

CHARLES FLYNN Free Energy Generator

Same topic (by same poster?) previously discussed here? :
My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Permanent Magnet Generator EVs?

Not a waste of time, thanks. Whether insane, deluded, a troll or hoping to catch a sucker through the make-them-google-and-hopefully-they'll-hit-my-site method, I hope your post encourages people to stop.

 

[TeleforceONE]

If the PMG worked, Charles Flynn can call up Tesla tomorrow, say: "Hey, I hold a patent to reduce your battery requirements by 90% - you can have it for $5000 royalties per car" - and it will be the fastest multi-billion dollar deal ever struck since Tesla knows this would make them the number 1 auto manufacturer in the world within 2 years.

Charles isn't doing that. Why? Maybe you can contend that Charles isn't interested in money... in which case why file a patent?

Thanks for revealing this information deonb.

I don't know Flynn. I never communicated with him or anyone from his staff. So, I cannot answer that question. I can only posit a guess.

If you follow Flynn's work, as I have done, you will find that he has various, verifiable, consultation contracts with different US Military Research Labs. He kind of went off the web radar in 2006, when he acquired the first of these contracts. I suspect that was part of the deal. It appears, however, that it is possible to acquire one of his PMGs for test purposes but, I think that they are only available to a select few. I have not contacted Flynn to find out if this is true, for I could not even afford that, on my miniscule budget. And, I definitely wouldn't qualify as one of the select few.

As for money, I also surmise that Flynn is being both, well paid and well financed.

Were I Elon Musk, I would contact Flynn. I heard he is a bit sensitive, though. So, were I Elon Musk, I would definitely tone down the your crazy jargon and the you've got to prove it to me first, before I'll take a look at it, approach. I imagine he has had enough of that.

If I were Flynn, I would sit back and wait for a humbler group to work with. Where's the joy in trying to develop something new when your own staff is constantly taking pot shots at you.

Dan

 

[tga]

I was driving down the road the the other day, with my 8 year old daughter sitting next to me, when she asked if she could turn on the radio. I said; it won't work for you unless you know exactly how it works. She giggled, while she reached to turn it on, and said; that's just silly. While we sat there driving down the road enjoying listening to the music together, I realized that billions of people listen to music everyday on their radios but have no clue as to how they work.

No one is saying you need to know how a radio works in order to turn it on. That's a bogus analogy.

Your original premise is akin to "I read that someone has patented a new radio that requires no batteries. It extracts limitless power directly from dark energy, and streams 1000bit/1MHz quadraphonic HD music via subspace transponders from an alien server located on Titan, and will play John Lennon's latest album from beyond the grave." And then refusing to accept that such an item can't exist because (1) free "dark energy" doesn't exist, (2) there's no alien server on Titan, and (3) last I checked, Lennon hasn't made any new music in over 3 decades.

 

[TeleforceONE]

Abandon Ship; Abandon Ship!

Two engineers were working down in the engine room of a old school tanker when the alarm first went off. One a junior engineer, Jane, and the other a senior engineer, John. Over the loud speakers could be heard, everywhere on the ship, abandon ship, abandon ship, over and over again.

John turned to Jane and said; let’s go now, before there is no more room on the lifeboats left. Jane said; you go ahead John and secure your seat on the lift boats. I’m staying. John, highly agitated, said; but, the boiler is about to blow any minute now. Jane said; I can’t go just yet. John said; why not? Jane said; because I couldn’t live with myself knowing that I could have saved the ship and all the crew that had no life boats to board, before she blows. John said; there is no way to save the ship. I know, I’m the senior engineer. Jane said; I have an idea on how to save the ship. John said; what is it? Jane said; it doesn’t matter. Your mind is already on the life boats. You wouldn’t be of any use, even if you knew. John said; tell me anyway. Maybe I’ll stay and help. Jane said; I can’t explain it. I don’t know how my idea works. John said; if you don’t know how it works, why are you going to stay? Jane said; I can show you how my idea works but, I can’t explain how it works because I don’t know why it works but, it does. John, now extremely agitated, just left Jane all alone there to try to save the ship, by herself.

An hour later, the ship blew up; not because Jane’s idea wouldn’t have worked but, because Jane didn’t have anyone’s help to execute it, in time to prevent the boiler from overheating. Had John bothered to just look at Jane’s concept, things might have been different. But, he didn’t. He was too set on abandoning ship. He was too afraid that he would be one of the crew left behind, without a seat on the few life boats available.

Dan

 

[Johan]

Abandon Ship; Abandon Ship!

How can we see the PMG in action? Where is a prototype? A video?

 

[Robert.Boston]

Elon is both working on the boiler (EVs, solar) and getting the lifeboats ready (SpaceX). That's what resources and genius can buy. Fortunately, he has lots of help. Whether he has enough help remains to be seen--there are a lot of people still throwing wrenches into the machinery.

 

[TEG]

...various, verifiable, consultation contracts with different US Military Research Labs. He kind of went off the web radar in 2006, when he acquired the first of these contracts. I suspect that was part of the deal...

Just because some military research lab decides to do a study on some technology doesn't validate it or prove that it is useful. I have seen many amazing sounding developments go that way and not go anywhere.

This reminds me a bit of the excitement and then let-down of EEstor...
Progress rarely glows blue: EEStor and the lure of new technology | Grist

 

[Johan]

In the words of Jay-Z:

"A wise man told me don't argue with fools / Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who"

(He is probably paraphrasing Mark Twain here, who said "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference")

 

[green1]

I thought it was something about not arguing with fools because they drag you down and beat you with experience....

I'm always amazed at how many perpetual motion machine proponents appear on EV forums. for some reason these same people don't seem to be on the ICE forums (or maybe they are the same as the 1000mpg carburetor people, though they tend to be more "big oil conspiracy", and less "you just don't understand the future")

 

[deonb]

I thought it was something about not arguing with fools because they drag you down and beat you with experience....

I'm always amazed at how many perpetual motion machine proponents appear on EV forums. for some reason these same people don't seem to be on the ICE forums (or maybe they are the same as the 1000mpg carburetor people, though they tend to be more "big oil conspiracy", and less "you just don't understand the future")

Magnetism and electronics seems like magic to people who don't understand it. That's different than a combustion engine which, once you accept "fire" for what it is, is very easy to understand. Nothing happens at a distance.

Not that I'm saying the world has a perfect understanding of all of the capabilities of magnetism. Maybe a polarity change is possible on a permanent magnet. But progress in that field is going to come from the scientific community in the form of peer researched papers - like it always does. Not in the form of an engineer that files a patent and then take a deity-like hands-off approach so that people can revere him, without him having to provide any concrete evidence.


But TeleforceOne - BE the change you want to see in the world. The PMG will cost you all of $20 to build. Build one, prove that it works, and send it to Elon, or send it to me and I'll make sure Elon's gets it the next day. And you end up having bragging rights for being instrumental in changing the world.

 

[TeleforceONE]

I don't have a PMG or a video of one to show you or Elon Musk, at this time. Again, I am not working with Flynn. I have never contacted Flynn nor anyone else on his staff, ever. I don't plan to, either.

When I do find one (a PMG), that is worthy (exceeds Flynn's) of showing, I will contact Elon Musk directly to arrange a proper and complete presentation.

My primary concern, with approaching Tesla Motors, my FIRST CHOICE, was whether Elon Musk had his hands tied by the Oil Companies (the wrench throwers). I see now that, to some degree, he does have to cowtow to the Oil Companies, just like the rest of us. I also see that he has his own style of rebellion, too.

In addition to approaching Elon Musk, I also plan to directly approach the Oil Companies. There is no keeping them out of the loop. I am quite confident that I will be able to convince them that bringing about this change (PMGs), sooner than later, is in their best interest, too. Of course, they are going to want in on it. I planned for that, too.

Dan

 

[TeleforceONE]

deonb said: The PMG will cost you all of $20 to build. Build one, prove that it works, and send it to Elon, or send it to me and I'll make sure Elon's gets it the next day. And you end up having bragging rights for being instrumental in changing the world.

I worked in law most of my adult life; not physics. I would never recommend to any would be inventor, with a PMG to show, to just hand it over, absent the standard and appropriate assurances, in place.

Sure, I agree, the principle can be shown for a fist full of dollars but, to beat Flynn's PGM; well, that's going to take a whole lot more coin than just one $20 dollar gold piece, just to make one such prototype. Also, please keep in mind that it is more likely than not that, Flynn has been diligently working on developing PMGs, with an open ended US Military budget, with all the staff he desired, of his chosing, since 2006; and, in secret.

Again, I wouldn't recommend showing, even a proof of principle device (PMG), without the typical and appropriate assurances and guarentees in place.

Don't let that dampen the enthusiam I've built. I didn't wet yours or Elon Musk's appetite for nothing.

Dan

 

[tga]

I worked in law most of my adult life; not physics.

Well, we'll all agree that that's obvious.

Look, I'm going to put this in simple terms, then give up on this pointless discourse.

Here are three facts:
1 - Tesla has not examined Flynn's PMG
2 - Nissan has not examined Flynn's PMG
3 - No branch of the US Military has examined Flynn's PMG

How can I claim these are facts? By virtue of this fact:

1 - There is no "Flynn PMG". Period.

And how can I make that claim? Because, unlike you, I understand physics (and thermodynamics). And I understand that "Flynn's PMG" is impossible. Period. Ergo, it does not exist.

 

[dsm363]

And scene.

 

[TeleforceONE]

As of today, Charles Flynn's permanent magnet motor(s) patent is still listed with the USPTO. US Patent #6246561. That patent still claims four different permanent magnet motors.

A fourth embodiment of a rotary motion device or motor . . . Top of page 19

QM Power, the company that has the US Military contracts for developments of Flynn's permanent magnet motors, still list Flynn as their co-founder.

Joe Flynn – Co-Founder and Chief Technology Officer
Mr. Flynn has 35 years of experience as a direct or contract R&D engineer, program leader, and senior technical consultant for a variety of major corporations. Those corporations include: Hallmark, Jakel Motors, Boeing, Baker Hughes and Seagate. As an R&D engineer and program leader, Mr. Flynn has had primary responsibility for the pre-production development of more than 150 commercial products, some representing more than $30 million per year in revenues for the contracting companies.
Mr. Flynn is the inventor of Q-Sync and Parallel Path Magnetic Technology ("PPMT"). He has designed, developed, and constructed more than 50 devices based on PPMT principles. Mr. Flynn holds 8 patents and 5 provisional patents in the field of electrodynamics, including the patents covering QM Power’s technology.