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What TEMAI product are you most interested in?


  • Total voters
    32

OCR1

Active Member
Jan 28, 2018
3,759
4,111
Southern California
I hate to be a pest, but we’ve had a number of vendors market their Model 3 cabin filters as “HEPA” when they have no idea what HEPA really means. Have your filters been certified by a third party lab to be HEPA compliant, or are you just using the term HEPA in a general sense to mean reasonably good at capturing particles?
 

TEMAI

Vendor
Sep 26, 2020
68
44
San Francisco
I hate to be a pest, but we’ve had a number of vendors market their Model 3 cabin filters as “HEPA” when they have no idea what HEPA really means. Have your filters been certified by a third party lab to be HEPA compliant, or are you just using the term HEPA in a general sense to mean reasonably good at capturing particles?
Love this question! Our product testing conducted via a third-party testing company. None of the HEPA filters like our HEPA filter are actually gone through third party testing as I know of. Attached the testing report for your reference. (You can see the TEMAI watermark on the report). We starting to attach the testing reports in every single package from the next production.
Screen Shot 2020-11-22 at 8.20.46 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-11-22 at 8.20.40 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-11-22 at 8.21.04 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-11-22 at 8.21.09 PM.png
 

cypho

Member
Dec 20, 2018
784
923
USA
Love this question! Our product testing conducted via a third-party testing company. None of the HEPA filters like our HEPA filter are actually gone through third party testing as I know of. Attached the testing report for your reference. (You can see the TEMAI watermark on the report). We starting to attach the testing reports in every single package from the next production.
View attachment 611015 View attachment 611016 View attachment 611017 View attachment 611018


Nice to see that it's tested but that does not seem to meet the standard for HEPA. HEPA requires 99.97%. HEPA - Wikipedia

You're off by more than an order of magnitude.
 

OCR1

Active Member
Jan 28, 2018
3,759
4,111
Southern California
Nice to see that it's tested but that does not seem to meet the standard for HEPA. HEPA requires 99.97%. HEPA - Wikipedia

You're off by more than an order of magnitude.

Correct, which is what led me to ask the question in the first place. Looking at the marketing literature on the website, it states:

“The absorption capacity of PM2.5 particles is as high as 98.4%.”.

When a vendor makes a statement that includes the wording “as high as”, what they are really saying is the actual filter capacity is anywhere from zero to 98.4%. And, even if it achieved 98.4%, that is significantly below the 99.7% threshold required to meet the HEPA standard. So unfortunately, from what we are seeing both on the website and in the testing results, this product is being marketed as a HEPA filter by a company that has no knowledge of what a HEPA filter actually is.

Tesla has never marketed the Model 3 cabin filters as being HEPA filters, unlike the Model S and X filters, which are much larger and were designed specifically to work with the S and X vehicles. The Model 3 filters are quite small and realistically even if they were HEPA grade they likely would not be sufficient in size to filter out 99.7% of all PM 2.5 particles in a moving vehicle. And there would be questions as to whether the filters were restricting air flow through the HVAC system and possibly putting an extra strain on the system, and possibly degrading the range of the vehicle by requiring it to pump more air through the system while driving.

I wish third party vendors who have the desire to market alternate cabin filters to the OEM version would simply state what the capabilities of their filter are without throwing around the HEPA term. It takes a product which otherwise may be very good and casts doubt about the credibility of the product and the company behind it when they use a term that they don’t take the time to actually understand and plaster it on their website.
 
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TEMAI

Vendor
Sep 26, 2020
68
44
San Francisco
Thanks @OCR1 and @cypho for challenging our products.

I just synced with the product team to get more detailed answers and hopefully, the answer provides clarity:

HEPA defined by classes. 99.97% is equivalent to the H13 class. Wind resistance is between 35 to 40 "Pa. This level of HEPA cannot be used in the car unless you have an additional air blower to increase the airflow (i.e. additional air blower/fresh air system on Model S/X). The highest HEPA class does not mean is the best for car use. We used H11 class HEPA (remove at least 95% of airborne particles 0.3 micrometers (μm) in diameter) which wind resistance is between 8 to 12 "Pa that is the best balance with maintaining airflow rate and filtration rate after testings. The 98.4% on the testing report was tested via PM2.5 which means 0.25 micrometers (μm) in diameter (smaller than diameter 0.3).

We can make H13 class HEPA, but it will not get the wind blow out even on the air level 8. (If you don't have an additional air blower to increase the airflow) So it will not be actually useful/practical. Ensuring efficiency and minimize wind resistance is the balance point we find and build our HEPA filter.

Air filter has two objective factors:
1. The fan power is fixed and can only be adapted to its air volume
2. The space size is fixed and it can only be used as a fixed area filter element

Our filter is the best one on the market in terms of maximizing the filtration efficiency and ventilation in these two quantitative environments.

Our advantages are: in the same wind resistance, our filtration efficiency is higher than OEM (the wind resistance is the same as the OEM, but the efficiency is much higher). With the same filtration efficiency, our wind resistance is lower than OEM.

So this is the balance. We must first ensure that the air volume of the air conditioner is not affected (the wind resistance is against the OEM), and then we will find a way to maximize the filtration efficiency. Our test report is also true. If we want to increase the value on the testing report we could submit for inspection use of higher grade HEPA filter paper. Then the laboratory can simulate a larger air volume.

But we don’t want to fake it, we test it according to the real air volume of the air conditioner in the car.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:

OCR1

Active Member
Jan 28, 2018
3,759
4,111
Southern California
We used H11 class HEPA (remove at least 95% of airborne particles 0.3 micrometers (μm) in diameter) which wind resistance is between 8 to 12 "Pa that is the best balance with maintaining airflow rate and filtration rate after testings. The 98.4% on the testing report was tested via PM2.5 which means 0.25 micrometers (μm) in diameter (smaller than diameter 0.3).

I appreciate the detailed explanation. However, there is no such thing as an H11 class HEPA. HEPA is simply a standard which states that a filter which is HEPA compliant will capture 99.97% of airborne particles as small as .3 microns. If a filter does not meet this standard it does not meet the HEPA criteria and can not be labeled as a HEPA filter.

I agree with your analysis that using a HEPA filter in a Model 3 would restrict air flow too much, and therefore it is not practical to use. This is why I’m concerned with the number of third party vendors providing misleading information regarding their cabin filters by using the term HEPA in their product descriptions when they are not HEPA filters.

What would be more meaningful (and accurate) for consumers would be to have a company run an air particle measurement tool in a Model 3 using both an OEM filter and your filter and report the particle counts for both filters. If your filter can demonstrate that it captures more particles than the OEM filter, you have a legitimate claim to be made that your filter is superior.
 

TEMAI

Vendor
Sep 26, 2020
68
44
San Francisco
I appreciate the detailed explanation. However, there is no such thing as an H11 class HEPA. HEPA is simply a standard which states that a filter which is HEPA compliant will capture 99.97% of airborne particles as small as .3 microns. If a filter does not meet this standard it does not meet the HEPA criteria and can not be labeled as a HEPA filter.

I agree with your analysis that using a HEPA filter in a Model 3 would restrict air flow too much, and therefore it is not practical to use. This is why I’m concerned with the number of third party vendors providing misleading information regarding their cabin filters by using the term HEPA in their product descriptions when they are not HEPA filters.

What would be more meaningful (and accurate) for consumers would be to have a company run an air particle measurement tool in a Model 3 using both an OEM filter and your filter and report the particle counts for both filters. If your filter can demonstrate that it captures more particles than the OEM filter, you have a legitimate claim to be made that your filter is superior.
Hi @OCR1,
Thanks for your suggestion.
HEPA does have classes. The H13 99.7% we are referring to here is the medical level HEPA.

Although there are not different types of HEPA – as filters either meet or fail the HEPA standard – there are different levels of HEPA efficiency. This is in addition to the above standard and is used to further compare and categorize HEPA filters amongst each other.

True HEPA generally ranges from H10-H12. This is the “grade” of HEPA or the level of efficiency. The higher the grade, the better the filter.

HEPA H13-H14 are within the highest tier of HEPA and are considered medical grade quality. Whereas H10-H12 filters trap 85-99.5% of all particles that are 0.1 microns in diameter, HEPA H13 and H14 trap 99.95% and 99.995% of such particles, respectively.

Medical grade HEPA filters are commonly used in pharmaceutical manufacturing and electronic control rooms because they have a greater particulate retention rate. This means medical grade HEPA filters are more efficient in removing harmful toxins from the environment. The web of fibers that make up these filters is even more dense than True HEPA and thus traps the smallest particles at a higher rate.

But there is no practical value to pursue the highest class 99.97% HEPA air filter for Model 3/Y. Not because of the implementation, just it's will not be useful and practical (as we talked about above). We can label H11 on our product like the way we labeled N98 grade on the product if that would help to address the concern and confusion. We don't wanna misleading our customers/users too. But we are very sure our filter is the best filter on the market at this moment for Model 3/Y. If anyone interested in doing unbiased comparison testing among other Model 3/Y air filters includes OEM, we'd love to participate.

To your 2nd suggestion. We already tested multiple times before we launched our product, also tested via 3rd party testing company (we also listed resulted on the product detail page and the screenshot above to show our filter has a better result than OEM), but love to have a 3rd company to run an air particle measurement testing in a Model 3 using both an OEM filter and our filter and report the particle counts for both filters(if particle cunts are feasible and measurable from the testing company) in a format that everyone can see in a video (if 3rd party testing allowed). Not a problem.
Open for suggestions that company that can run this test. (We will also look for it from now.)

Hope this helps!
 
Last edited:

rdeca

Member
May 13, 2019
51
22
SoCal
The filters look good and only cost $11 more (after coupon) than the OEM filters so I'll probably give it a try.

Just had a question, my AC smells after running it, do you recommend cleaning the AC condenser/evaporator first before installing your filters or would just replacing with your filters be sufficient to take care of the smell? Says it takes care of the smell so I was just wondering.

Also, is the recommended interval to change the filter 2 years like what Tesla recommends? If not, what is the interval?
 
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TEMAI

Vendor
Sep 26, 2020
68
44
San Francisco
The filters look good and only cost $11 more (after coupon) than the OEM filters so I'll probably give it a try.

Just had a question, my AC smells after running it, do you recommend cleaning the AC condenser/evaporator first before installing your filters or would just replacing with your filters be sufficient to take care of the smell? Says it takes care of the smell so I was just wondering.

Also, is the recommended interval to change the filter 2 years like what Tesla recommends? If not, what is the interval?
Hi @rdeca , thanks for asking. Most of the time the smells caused by the air filters. We would recommend you directly replace the air filter that might just resolve the smell issue.
To your 2nd question, the interval depends on the use environment by various external factors. So it's hard to come up with a specifically recommended replacement interval. But our filter's lifetime is longer than OEM in the same use environment. For instance, if you use the OEM filter in a 2 years replacement interval environment, our filter can last longer than 2 years compared to the OEM filter. Hope this helps!
 
Last edited:

Gasaraki

Active Member
Oct 21, 2019
1,833
1,141
Syracuse, NY
I appreciate the detailed explanation. However, there is no such thing as an H11 class HEPA. HEPA is simply a standard which states that a filter which is HEPA compliant will capture 99.97% of airborne particles as small as .3 microns. If a filter does not meet this standard it does not meet the HEPA criteria and can not be labeled as a HEPA filter.

I agree with your analysis that using a HEPA filter in a Model 3 would restrict air flow too much, and therefore it is not practical to use. This is why I’m concerned with the number of third party vendors providing misleading information regarding their cabin filters by using the term HEPA in their product descriptions when they are not HEPA filters.

What would be more meaningful (and accurate) for consumers would be to have a company run an air particle measurement tool in a Model 3 using both an OEM filter and your filter and report the particle counts for both filters. If your filter can demonstrate that it captures more particles than the OEM filter, you have a legitimate claim to be made that your filter is superior.

He's talking about European HEPA classifications.
 

rdeca

Member
May 13, 2019
51
22
SoCal
@TEMAI
I just installed my cabin filters today but noticed an odor from the filters, smells like it's the material. Is this normal and will it go away?

Also, the ribbon tabs look good but they are not secured very well on the cardboard. It looks like very thin cardboard securing it. I ended up ripping the cardboard when I pulled on it when I had to adjust the filter. The ribbon was still attached so I just taped it up. I know this would not have happened on the OEM filter since it's more secure.
 
Last edited:

TEMAI

Vendor
Sep 26, 2020
68
44
San Francisco
Hi @rdeca, apologized for the inconvenience and bad experience. I forwarded your questions to the team and will circle back to you as soon as I hear from the team. Expected to get back from the team tomorrow (Monday).

Sorry again! Will keep you posted.
 
Last edited:

GRACKLE

Member
Oct 28, 2020
105
20
Austin, TX
Hi, I just received the Jeda wireless charging pad that says it works with all iPhone 12 versions, including minis, and it only charges the mini in landscape mode; vertical charging does not work on either side of the pad unless I prop the phone up 1/2 inch. Can you please confirm that your wireless charging pad has actually been tested with an iPhone mini and it works, and I don't have to find something to shove under the mini to prop it up to charge?

Also, can you please confirm that your phone mount holds a mini as well? It looks great. Interested in buying both, and starting to feel like minis just aren't supported, by Tesla, or by 3rd parties. Thanks.
 

TEMAI

Vendor
Sep 26, 2020
68
44
San Francisco
Hi, I just received the Jeda wireless charging pad that says it works with all iPhone 12 versions, including minis, and it only charges the mini in landscape mode; vertical charging does not work on either side of the pad unless I prop the phone up 1/2 inch. Can you please confirm that your wireless charging pad has actually been tested with an iPhone mini and it works, and I don't have to find something to shove under the mini to prop it up to charge?

Also, can you please confirm that your phone mount holds a mini as well? It looks great. Interested in buying both, and starting to feel like minis just aren't supported, by Tesla, or by 3rd parties. Thanks.
Hi @GRACKLE, Thanks for asking! I will confirm with the team specifically on the iPhone mini version and circle back to you for both phone mount and wireless charging pad.
 

TEMAI

Vendor
Sep 26, 2020
68
44
San Francisco
@TEMAI
I just installed my cabin filters today but noticed an odor from the filters, smells like it's the material. Is this normal and will it go away?

Also, the ribbon tabs look good but they are not secured very well on the cardboard. It looks like very thin cardboard securing it. I ended up ripping the cardboard when I pulled on it when I had to adjust the filter. The ribbon was still attached so I just taped it up. I know this would not have happened on the OEM filter since it's more secure.

HI @rdeca, hope you had a great weekend! Just got back from the team. The new filter may have the smell of activated carbon just after it is used, it will usually be eliminated after blowing in a few hours (normally 1-2 hours). So it will go away.

The problem of the handle is indeed not as good as that of the OEM. The paper frame structure filter does have this problem. We will improve it later to find a balance between beauty and details.

Hope this helps and thanks for your support.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
 

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