Tesla 2021 Australian Supercharger Rollout

[technerdx6000]

Yeah, I get demand charges and why the electricity companies charge them. This presents a prime opportunity for Tesla to use their Powerpacks to smooth demand. Considering the Superchargers are rarely full, or even half full, A single Powerpack per install or a couple for the larger 8 or 10 stall Superchargers would significantly mitigate the demand charge. Based on Powerpack's specs of 130kW continuous output and 232kWh storage, one Powerpack could potentially more than halve a 4 stall Supercharger's grid demand.

Tesla has mentioned using energy storage to supplement their Superchargers in the past. Do we have any evidence they are doing this yet?

 

[cafz]

Remember that in Australia, large power users pay for electricity on a demand tariff - based mostly on the peak rate the site could hypothetically draw at once.

Just a note that demand charges aren't based on hypotheticals - they're based on actuals, typically power draw over the half-hour period with the highest power draw during the month.

I saw some indication that Chargefox is already using batteries at some of their ultrafast sites for peak smoothing.

 

[Vostok]

Evie and Chargefox with their 350kW chargers are starting to put Tesla in the shade with their 120kW chargers... and the the third-party networks are often in better locations.

Whoever thought a situation like that would come to pass in this country?

 

[GrimRe]

Evie and Chargefox with their 350kW chargers are starting to put Tesla in the shade with their 120kW chargers... and the the third-party networks are often in better locations.

Whoever thought a situation like that would come to pass in this country?

Reuters reported that Tesla are building a dedicated Supercharger factory with capacity for 10,000 superchargers per year.
Tesla plans to produce electric car chargers in China

Granted, the vast majority of that will be for China domestically, I suspect that in ~2022 we will see Tesla really ramp up Superchargers in AU. No point building them now while a) they are expensive and b) not much usage.

 

[Stromi]

Remember that in Australiar, large power users pay for electricity on a demand tariff - based mostly on the peak rate the site could hypothetically draw at once. Plus there are absurd upfront costs.

Tesla should do a deal with wind farm operators in Victoria's west to place superchargers on private land "behind the meter".
This would avoid Victoria's PowerCorp (think NoiseCorpse, but greedier) extortionate demand charges. The wind farm operators
might even welcome the extra revenue with AEMO (Angus's Environment Murdering Outfit) throttling their output.

Portland has lots of potential of very scenic wind farm chargers, rather than sited next to an astringent burger bar or a petrol station or a casino.
(or all three with old Warrnambool SC - the saving grace was Bunnings near by)
Thankfully new Warrnambool SC is targetted Q4 2021.

 

[Vostok]

Tesla should do a deal with wind farm operators in Victoria's west to place superchargers on private land "behind the meter". This would avoid Victoria's PowerCorp (think NoiseCorpse, but greedier) extortionate demand charges. The wind farm operators might even welcome the extra revenue with AEMO (Angus's Environment Murdering Outfit) throttling their output.

Interesting idea... but would they be well-located enough to actually be used? And if they are “behind the meter” would they work if there was a wind drought?

I suspect the amount of revenue this would generate would be miniscule compared to their sales to the electricity retailers. One rotation of one of those giant turbines generates about 10kWh, which puts car charging into perspective.

 

[Chuq]

Tesla should do a deal with wind farm operators in Victoria's west to place superchargers on private land "behind the meter".

I can't see this being much use as an existing supercharger or event alternate 350 kW ultra-rapid charger in their current format. The site would be in the middle of nowhere and would have practically no facilities nearby.

However, if someone wanted to develop a Gridserve forecourt style centre... and it just so happened that a wind farm was near the highway, and the land owner (most wind farms are on private farm land) was also supportive.. that would be a awesome idea!

 

[Vostok]

However, if someone wanted to develop a Gridserve forecourt style centre... and it just so happened that a wind farm was near the highway, and the land owner (most wind farms are on private farm land) was also supportive.. that would be a awesome idea!

I was super impressed when I first saw Gridserve forecourt. Very nice.

 

[GrimRe]

In NSW a Supercharger site would be on an EA370 meter I believe.

This is roughly $50 a day supply charge then 20c per kVA per day. Assuming 360kW peak for all stations, that's around 700kVA so a further $150 per day in capacity charges. Finally the actually usage is 5c kWh blended so probably a further $50 in actual usage. Summing that all together you are at $250 per day or rounding up to probably $100k AUD per year in costs.

Revenue wise, they are charging 52c per kWh currently and let's assuming 1000kWh in charging sessions per day on average. This would be a revenue of maybe $200k per year?

Seems like quite a decent profit margin to me?

 

[Helieng]

How about just installing the superchargers that have been on the list for the last couple of years, and postponed every. Year.

 

[cafz]

and let's assuming 1000kWh in charging sessions per day on average.

I'm not sure that assumption holds up. That's 30-40 session per day, every day. While Macqurie Park would exceed that, I doubt that most other sites - places like Cooma, Dubbo or Coffs Harbour - would get close to that on most days. At the moment, anyway.

 

[taco]

Seems like quite a decent profit margin to me?

And then add costs for building the superchargers, rent for the site, credit card processing fees, insurance, maintenance... Suddenly there's not that much profit left.

 

[GrimRe]

And then add costs for building the superchargers, rent for the site, credit card processing fees, insurance, maintenance... Suddenly there's not that much profit left.

Yes that would contribute to the net margin calculations for sure. I'm talking about gross operating margin in my post as a sort of back of napkin math.

I think what this highlights is the huge imbalance between capacity and consumption charges. Tesla would have to pay a significant amount purely for the kVA allowance irrespective of actual use. This is presumably why the price per kWh is so high as the majority of supercharging stations are so under-utilised.

 

[Stromi]

"If you build it, they will come" -- Field of Dreams

The site would be in the middle of nowhere and would have practically no facilities nearby.

Sounds perfect to me for an hour's leg stretch and a bit of doom scrolling.
When driving from Woop woop to the Back of Beyond via the Black Stump anything beyond a 15a caravan park plug is appreciated.
I don't expect super duper mega watt DCFC, 25-50kW cheapies would open up the back of rural Vic, NSW and Qland.
I know 50km seems like a long days drive in Tas but how are we going to get a solid Australian wide network, not just to service the sub-suburbs.

I can't see this being much use as an existing supercharger or event alternate 350 kW ultra-rapid charger in their current format.

Why? Demand charges.

In NSW a Supercharger site would be on an EA370 meter I believe.
This is roughly $50 a day supply charge then 20c per kVA per day. Assuming 360kW peak for all stations, that's around 700kVA so a further $150 per day in capacity charges. Finally the actually usage is 5c kWh blended so probably a further $50 in actual usage. Summing that all together you are at $250 per day or rounding up to probably $100k AUD per year in costs.

$250 a day before paying down the cost of equipment. Ouch.
Versus small DCFC behind the meter on a wind farm / solar farm costing much less.

 

[GrimRe]

$250 a day before paying down the cost of equipment. Ouch.
Versus small DCFC behind the meter on a wind farm / solar farm costing much less.

Cost of solar+wind is probably ~ $1,000 per kW plus battery is $500 per kWh installed. To build a DCFC site capable of 3MWh of storage plus 1MW output would require $500,000 in solar+wind and then $1,500,000 in batteries so around $2m in build cost. These prices are dropping also at rate of about 12% per year.

A dedicated 1MW transformer from Ausgrid will be around $2 million to build plus usage charges (i.e. $200k per year)

So yes, unless Ausgrid give away the connection fee (i.e. already have the power lines and meter in place) then building a massive behind the meter renewable energy source for a super charging station would be quite financially attractive.

 

[Candleflame]

Evie and Chargefox with their 350kW chargers are starting to put Tesla in the shade with their 120kW chargers... and the the third-party networks are often in better locations.

Whoever thought a situation like that would come to pass in this country?

250kw supercharging is more of a marketing gimmick. The only real car which will profit from it is likely the plaid S and the Roadster. I reckon with more frequent charging stations the trend will be to use battery sizes from 60-90kwh for most EVs.

For a comparison:

V3 250kw supercharging 20 - 60% 12min
V2 130 kw supercharging 20 - 60% 14min
350kw (model 3 can only pull 190kw) 20 -60% almost 13min

I cant remember the cutoff but I think if you charge to 80% or more there is no difference at all between 250kw V3 supercharging at 130kw v2 charging as 250kw charging leads to earlier tapering.

So in Australia where the population density is less and distances are further (requiring higher charge %) Tesla should imho focus more ton 130kw supercharging.

 

[technerdx6000]

250kw supercharging is more of a marketing gimmick. The only real car which will profit from it is likely the plaid S and the Roadster. I reckon with more frequent charging stations the trend will be to use battery sizes from 60-90kwh for most EVs.

For a comparison:

V3 250kw supercharging 20 - 60% 12min
V2 130 kw supercharging 20 - 60% 14min
350kw (model 3 can only pull 190kw) 20 -60% almost 13min

I cant remember the cutoff but I think if you charge to 80% or more there is no difference at all between 250kw V3 supercharging at 130kw v2 charging as 250kw charging leads to earlier tapering.

So in Australia where the population density is less and distances are further (requiring higher charge %) Tesla should imho focus more ton 130kw supercharging.

Think you mean 350kW is a marketing gimmick?

No car can charge at 350kW in the world right now and the only one which comes close is the Taycan which I am thinking very few will be sold in Australia. 350kW is only possible on an 800V battery as the Chargers are limited to 500A current.

250kW is good for future proofing and it would be cheaper for Tesla to manufacture one charger vs multiple types.

With enough supercharger density, charging from 10-60% is all that's required.

With enough stops on a roadtrip. Those small time differences add up.

 

[Candleflame]

Think you mean 350kW is a marketing gimmick?

No car can charge at 350kW in the world right now and the only one which comes close is the Taycan which I am thinking very few will be sold in Australia. 350kW is only possible on an 800V battery as the Chargers are limited to 500A current.

250kW is good for future proofing and it would be cheaper for Tesla to manufacture one charger vs multiple types.

With enough supercharger density, charging from 10-60% is all that's required.

With enough stops on a roadtrip. Those small time differences add up.

the issue is that if you put 4 250kw chargers in Bowen or whatever the town cant possibly supply 1 MW so it wont get approved. But 130kw x4 is much easier.

If we are talking about putting 350kw chargers in Sydney then that is a different matter.

 

[Vostok]

the issue is that if you put 4 250kw chargers in Bowen or whatever the town cant possibly supply 1 MW so it wont get approved. But 130kw x4 is much easier. If we are talking about putting 350kw chargers in Sydney then that is a different matter.

Chargefox has two 350kW chargers in Karuah, a town of 1400 people in the middle of not much. There’s also a freebie 50 kW NRMA one there.

I don’t care if 350 kW chargers are a “gimmick” or no car can take full advantage of them today. First, it means every car can be charged at their maximum potential and second it builds in some future-proofing.

Seeing Model 3 get mainlined at 170kW is just awesome.

 

[Candleflame]

Chargefox has two 350kW chargers in Karuah, a town of 1400 people in the middle of not much. There’s also a freebie 50 kW NRMA one there.

I don’t care if 350 kW chargers are a “gimmick” or no car can take full advantage of them today. First, it means every car can be charged at their maximum potential and second it builds in some future-proofing.

Seeing Model 3 get mainlined at 170kW is just awesome.

Karuah cannot be compared to a 1000 person town 500km away from a city. kurarah is basically newcastle.