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Tesla 2021 Australian Supercharger Rollout

Discussion in 'Australia' started by rohan3au, Jan 4, 2021.

  1. technerdx6000

    technerdx6000 Member

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    Yeah, I get demand charges and why the electricity companies charge them. This presents a prime opportunity for Tesla to use their Powerpacks to smooth demand. Considering the Superchargers are rarely full, or even half full, A single Powerpack per install or a couple for the larger 8 or 10 stall Superchargers would significantly mitigate the demand charge. Based on Powerpack's specs of 130kW continuous output and 232kWh storage, one Powerpack could potentially more than halve a 4 stall Supercharger's grid demand.

    Tesla has mentioned using energy storage to supplement their Superchargers in the past. Do we have any evidence they are doing this yet?
     
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  2. cafz

    cafz Member

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    Just a note that demand charges aren't based on hypotheticals - they're based on actuals, typically power draw over the half-hour period with the highest power draw during the month.

    I saw some indication that Chargefox is already using batteries at some of their ultrafast sites for peak smoothing.
     
  3. Vostok

    Vostok Active Member

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    Evie and Chargefox with their 350kW chargers are starting to put Tesla in the shade with their 120kW chargers... and the the third-party networks are often in better locations.

    Whoever thought a situation like that would come to pass in this country?
     
  4. GrimRe

    GrimRe Member

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    Reuters reported that Tesla are building a dedicated Supercharger factory with capacity for 10,000 superchargers per year.
    Tesla plans to produce electric car chargers in China

    Granted, the vast majority of that will be for China domestically, I suspect that in ~2022 we will see Tesla really ramp up Superchargers in AU. No point building them now while a) they are expensive and b) not much usage.
     
  5. Stromi

    Stromi Model 3 SR+

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    Tesla should do a deal with wind farm operators in Victoria's west to place superchargers on private land "behind the meter".
    This would avoid Victoria's PowerCorp (think NoiseCorpse, but greedier) extortionate demand charges. The wind farm operators
    might even welcome the extra revenue with AEMO (Angus's Environment Murdering Outfit) throttling their output.

    Portland has lots of potential of very scenic wind farm chargers, rather than sited next to an astringent burger bar or a petrol station or a casino.
    (or all three with old Warrnambool SC - the saving grace was Bunnings near by)
    Thankfully new Warrnambool SC is targetted Q4 2021.
     
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  6. Vostok

    Vostok Active Member

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    Interesting idea... but would they be well-located enough to actually be used? And if they are “behind the meter” would they work if there was a wind drought?

    I suspect the amount of revenue this would generate would be miniscule compared to their sales to the electricity retailers. One rotation of one of those giant turbines generates about 10kWh, which puts car charging into perspective.
     
  7. Chuq

    Chuq Active Member

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    I can't see this being much use as an existing supercharger or event alternate 350 kW ultra-rapid charger in their current format. The site would be in the middle of nowhere and would have practically no facilities nearby.

    However, if someone wanted to develop a Gridserve forecourt style centre... and it just so happened that a wind farm was near the highway, and the land owner (most wind farms are on private farm land) was also supportive.. that would be a awesome idea!
     
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  8. Vostok

    Vostok Active Member

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    I was super impressed when I first saw Gridserve forecourt. Very nice.
     
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  9. GrimRe

    GrimRe Member

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    In NSW a Supercharger site would be on an EA370 meter I believe.

    This is roughly $50 a day supply charge then 20c per kVA per day. Assuming 360kW peak for all stations, that's around 700kVA so a further $150 per day in capacity charges. Finally the actually usage is 5c kWh blended so probably a further $50 in actual usage. Summing that all together you are at $250 per day or rounding up to probably $100k AUD per year in costs.

    Revenue wise, they are charging 52c per kWh currently and let's assuming 1000kWh in charging sessions per day on average. This would be a revenue of maybe $200k per year?

    Seems like quite a decent profit margin to me?
     
  10. Helieng

    Helieng Member

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    How about just installing the superchargers that have been on the list for the last couple of years, and postponed every. Year.
     
  11. cafz

    cafz Member

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    I'm not sure that assumption holds up. That's 30-40 session per day, every day. While Macqurie Park would exceed that, I doubt that most other sites - places like Cooma, Dubbo or Coffs Harbour - would get close to that on most days. At the moment, anyway.
     
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  12. taco

    taco Member

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    And then add costs for building the superchargers, rent for the site, credit card processing fees, insurance, maintenance... Suddenly there's not that much profit left.
     
    • Informative x 1
  13. GrimRe

    GrimRe Member

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    Yes that would contribute to the net margin calculations for sure. I'm talking about gross operating margin in my post as a sort of back of napkin math.

    I think what this highlights is the huge imbalance between capacity and consumption charges. Tesla would have to pay a significant amount purely for the kVA allowance irrespective of actual use. This is presumably why the price per kWh is so high as the majority of supercharging stations are so under-utilised.
     
  14. Stromi

    Stromi Model 3 SR+

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    #34 Stromi, Jan 19, 2021 at 12:16 AM
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021 at 12:37 AM
    "If you build it, they will come" -- Field of Dreams

    Sounds perfect to me for an hour's leg stretch and a bit of doom scrolling.
    When driving from Woop woop to the Back of Beyond via the Black Stump anything beyond a 15a caravan park plug is appreciated.
    I don't expect super duper mega watt DCFC, 25-50kW cheapies would open up the back of rural Vic, NSW and Qland.
    I know 50km seems like a long days drive in Tas :) but how are we going to get a solid Australian wide network, not just to service the sub-suburbs.

    Why? Demand charges.
    $250 a day before paying down the cost of equipment. Ouch.
    Versus small DCFC behind the meter on a wind farm / solar farm costing much less.
     
  15. GrimRe

    GrimRe Member

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    Cost of solar+wind is probably ~ $1,000 per kW plus battery is $500 per kWh installed. To build a DCFC site capable of 3MWh of storage plus 1MW output would require $500,000 in solar+wind and then $1,500,000 in batteries so around $2m in build cost. These prices are dropping also at rate of about 12% per year.

    A dedicated 1MW transformer from Ausgrid will be around $2 million to build plus usage charges (i.e. $200k per year)

    So yes, unless Ausgrid give away the connection fee (i.e. already have the power lines and meter in place) then building a massive behind the meter renewable energy source for a super charging station would be quite financially attractive.
     

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